Last time I changed the oil on my omega I was disconcerted to find that the sump plug was worryingly tight to replace . So much so that I removed it to check for thread damage . not finding any I screwed it back in and hoped it was just a really tight fit or a taper thread or something . As the plug remained in place and oil tight i wondered if it might be best to leave well alone and change the oil via a dip stick syphon device that I remember seeing somewhere , but the tone of a reply to a previous query on the back room intimated that these things or this method was in some way inferior to draining the sump via the plug . Maybe it was (i.i.r.c) the ad for said device featured a pretty young lady changing the oil and wearing her best frock and also a pair of white gloves , never mentioned the filter though . any comments anyone ?
thanks , mike.
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Assuming the tube will fit down the dipstick tube ok, and there aren't any baffles etc in the way, you should have no problem. After the first time, remove the sump plug just to see how much is left. I think the days of swarf and sludge are long gone, so a bit of oil left is hardly going to be catastrophic.
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Personally I like the compromise solution.
Oil changes at normal intervals experience the therapeutic effects of oil running up your sleeve and use the traditional method.
Extra oil change at 6 month/half mileage intervals use the vacuum oil extractor. Best of both worlds IMHO.
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Don't rate this method - cannot get rid of all the carp off the bottom of the sump pan.
Try getting a new sump plug from Halfords (about £3). I also use a small amount of thread sealer.
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I would stick to the old method of the sump plug , getting under the car to remove the plug normally provides you with a customery glance at the underside of the car to see any leaks or damage to the underside.
For all cases I would change the sealing ring on the plug which normally costs less than a pound but helps reduce the risk of sump plug leaks.
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Don't rate this method - cannot get rid of all the carp off the bottom of the sump pan.
Fish in the sump. Blimey!
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>> Don't rate this method - cannot get rid of all >> the carp off the bottom of the sump pan. Fish in the sump. Blimey!
Best give it an Italian Tuna
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A number of contributors are being rather conservative re their views of crud remaining in the sump if oil is removed by scavenging rather than via the sump drain.
I change the oil in my vehicles every 5-6K. Obliged to remove the sump on one a year ago to replace a failed rear crank seal, (96K miles registered) it was particulary satisfying to note just how clean the sump was 10 years down the line.
The two year old C200K is a real pain to change the oil conventionally as its underside is shielded in two plastic trays to improve aerodynamics. In addition the sump is aluminium with a 20 Nm max loading for the drain plug. I change the oil via the sump at present (having bought a torque wrench to avoid overloading the sump thread) and it would be fair to state that this is a time consuming task. For the future, I plan to use a vacumn device the "Topsider" which is marketed in the states and promoted in the USA by Mercedesshop.com which I will use for interim changes.
The Topsider is particulary attractive as it will accomodate the MB's 7 litre sump capacity and does not need an electrical supply. In essance it is a hand operated vacumn pump mounted on top of a steel sphere. it is very similar to a large garden sprayer to look at.
Julian Lindley>> Last time I changed the oil on my omega I was disconcerted to find that the sump plug was worryingly tight to replace . So much so that I removed it to check for thread damage . not finding any I screwed it back in and hoped it was just a really tight fit or a taper thread or something . As the plug remained in place and oil tight i wondered if it might be best to leave well alone and change the oil via a dip stick syphon device that I remember seeing somewhere , but the tone of a reply to a previous query on the back room intimated that these things or this method was in some way inferior to draining the sump via the plug . Maybe it was (i.i.r.c) the ad for said device featured a pretty young lady changing the oil and wearing her best frock and also a pair of white gloves , never mentioned the filter though . any comments anyone ? thanks , mike.
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Does anyone know of a UK source for the Topsider?
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Does anyone know of a UK source for the Topsider?
It's mentioned in the 1st post of the following thread, Not cheap at £59.99 though.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=10...2
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Hi
Thanks for that I followed the link but could not locate within the dealers website.
Thanks anyway.
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If using an extractor pump or vacuum via the dipstick hole means you change your oil at half recommended intervals then that can only be a good thing. But as a substitute for a whoosh of hot oil out of the drain plug it doesnt stack up. The latter has a far better chance of getting rid of the crap.(or even carp!) Hopefully it wont be swarf but there is certainly sludge and mayonaise around, more so than in the old days when engines wefre thermally less efficient. For those people who habitually get oil all over their sleeve (previous posts) or who'd rather wear a frock when doing an oil change or have awkward to get at drain plugs , there have been plenty of posts pointing out how cheaply some of the National chains will do any oil change via the drain plug whilst using quality branded oil plus filter.
Personally I'd rather do it myself. Can always use the frock for wiping down your sleeve and mopping up !
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Claude
What you say sounds instinctively correct but have you any empirical research that would back it up. Not trying to be funny just interested.
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You don't have to get oil down your sleeve, or even on your fingers, unless you like it of course.
Make sure there is enough clearance between the underside of the sump and the bowl, loosen the plug, unscrew with fingers but keep it pressed against the threads. Then when you are sure your sleeve isn't in the way, whip the plug away upwards or to the side.
If you need to jack the car to get clearance, use the side that tilts the plug to the lowest point.
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Agreed !
Norman: Did you mean 'empirical' ie: 'relying on experience not on theory' (Oxford Dict) ? If you did then I think the answer must be YES.
For starters, the user instructions of the Topsider suggest cutting the bottom off the collector tube at an angle of 45 degrees in order that it doesnt 'bottom out' on the sump floor. Straight away that means its not going to take up the last few millimetres of oil which is where most of the crud will have settled to.
Secondly, depending on the angle of the dipstick tube, you cannot tell whether the collector tube has landed in the oil at right angles or exactly WHERE in the sump its landed.The bottom end of a dipstick doesnt actually land on the sump floor, its suspended in the oil. So a collector tube which is pushed FURTHER in will land, at best vertically below the dipstick hole but at worst (depending on the angle of the dipstick tube) somewhere else in the sump. In other words you might have angled the car so that the sump oil runs to the side where the dipstick tube is located only to find that the collector tube lands on the higher side of the sump. It will be different for different cars and frankly you may never be quite sure which way it is. But its a recipe for not picking up another few millimetres of oil.
Thirdly the instructions say 'allow 15-20 minutes' to remove oil. In that length of time the oil will have cooled down and the crud that was in suspension will have partially settled out.
So the few millimetres of 'missed' oil referred to above are the parts where all the crud is lurking and the very parts you DONT want to miss.
But who knows whether you miss some oil or not; and may be its different at each oil change ?
Thats the point, its not a consistant method across the board.
So I believe the benfit of an oil drain via the sump are irrefutable but I fully accept that an oil change via the dipstick is far better than no oil change at all. And whilst it is probably easier and cleaner to use the topsider there really isnt much in the way of an overall time saving. Taking everything into account draining via the sump plug must be the best way buts thats not to say that the topsider is a BAD way. Just less good !
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And in any case, you've still got to get at and remove the filter. You'll still need some form of drain pan to catch the dribbles and chances are you have to do this from under the car.
The benefit of the topsider (or similar) to a garage is that the technician can be doing something else (like the plugs or air filter or another car) whilst the oil is removed. In this instance time is money and time saved is valuable. I'm not sure the same applies to DIYing.
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Convential sump draining is not the whole answer as the MB example and other makes do not all have the sump plug anywhere near the lowest point even when the car is jacked up.
After viewing pictures of the MB example of what is left in the sump after conventional draining and the no option approach if you have a boat engine I will look out for a topsider when in the USA.
Meanwhile some amazingly detailed suggestions on the use of Topsider
business.baylor.edu/Richard_Easley//autofaqs/topsi...m
For those of you with expertise, a sense of humour, a Blue Peter badge and are not prepared to pay the going rate:
In the category of -Here is one I made earlier.
Try the $2 alternative. ENJOY
oil.articles.mbz.org/oilsucker/
Lots of hits on Google with topsider oil removal. Lots of variation on price of topsider.
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go for it , the crap at the bottom of the sump pan ,is like it says
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If you use a syphon you need to make sure it will get all the oil out. I tried using a syphon on a 1.4 tdi Polo and older 1.9 tdi (90 bhp) Passat.
On the Polo only 3 litres out of a possible 4.5 litres could be got out. On the Passat only 3.5 litres out of 5 litres came out.
Presumably the design of the sump (baffles etc.) prevents the syphon tube reaching to the bottom of the sump.
You really need to compare how much oil comes out using the syphon method with the sump plug removal method.
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Removal via dip stick hole is now the method approved by MB for oil changes (IIRC they intend not to fit sump plugs on new models)
To check the difference, suck out all the oil, then open up the sump plug to see how much you miss - do I search on google. IIRC there is little difference
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