A brief summary of what made my blood boil today:
After booking an mot with our local VW dealer via the VW customer care line, we arrived at 8am to be told there was no record of our appointment. Begrudgingly the woman said she would 'fit us in' and instead of picking the car up at 11am we would have to leave it all day.
We turn up at 4:30 and are told by 5pm that my girlfriends 1998 1.6S VW Approved used car which we have had 6 months and driven 2500miles in had failed on three points:
1> Buldging brake pipe
2> Split brake servo vacuum hose
3> Broken exhaust bracket
The woman was not particularly sympathetic as she delivered the new and explained how the car was too dangerous to drive. She explained we shouldn't take the car home as it was unsafe, and also because she would have to charge another £39.95 for a restest. As the dealer is 45mins away from home we called my girlfriends dad to collect us.
I explained that the car was only 6 months into the VW Approved Used car warranty and as such they can pick up the repair bill (except of course for the exhaust bracket). The woman repeatedly asked the name of the warranty company as she didnt seem to know what a VW Approved Used car was and the cover that accompanies it.
Rather fed up we left the car as it was too late to anything and headed home. Today, monday, my girlfriend received a call from the dealer telling her she needed a new exhaust centre section at £91.95 + vat + 1 hour labour totalling £139.95. As this was more than the exhaust bracket that the MOT tester had claimed she told them she needed to speak to me before approving it. The dealer however 'needed' to know within 5-10mins, and as my girlfriend was in such a panic and not being able to get a hold of me she told them to go ahead if the box was indeed in need of replacement. The work she was told, would be completed by Wednesday night.
s**s law though, I called her as soon as she put the phone down and was taken aback by the cost of the work. I contacted the dealer and asked why the box needed replaced and why exactly the bracker could not be repaired or replaced. The girl put me on hold and came back with the 'Sorry but you need a centre section sir' I asked if it was unfit to be repaired or corroded to such an extent that the bracket was unable to repaired, and she replied yes.
A tad unconvinced I headed to the dealer to discover the car in the workshop with a new exhaust and the mechanic replacing the hoses. The young lad, pleasant enough showed me the original centre section which is in damn good condition, bar the surface rust, and a clean cut where the bracket had came off. Somewhat taken aback by the need to spend £150 to pass the MOT i asked the lad if he would spend that on a new box, to which he sensibly replied no, he would have the bracket repaired and the healthy box reinstalled, but as the work was paid for by the warranty company we shouldn't be bothered. Except the work isn't being paid by them as it's an exhaust and as per usual they are not covered!
I approached the guy in the office, asked the cost of the box (£139.95) and asked why this was necessary when the bracket could be re-attached in 5 minutes and 10p worth of welding rod reinstating the almost perfect box sat along side the car. He was having none of it as apparently they dont have a welder, and my girlfriend and approved the work that had taken place. Argument over he offered to put the old box back in at a cost of 2 hours labour. He then told us it would cost £39.95 for the MOT , £39.95 for the retest and the warranty would cover the other repairs.
The only reason we went to a VW dealer was to benefit from supposedly superior after sales care! hah!
Not only that, tonight i searched the Vehicle Inspectorates web site and found that i was well within my rights to take the car, have it repaired locally (which my local independant garage would do for a couple quid - ie replacing the bracket) and return by the end of the next working day to be re-tested at no extra cost! So for the sake of a few quid I am, or my girlfriend is £140 out of pocket!
Am i wrong in thinking I should take my complaint further?
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I think this proves the case about "warranties" that are
given by third parties as opposed to the dealer or the
manufacturer. They are seldon worth the paper that they
are written on.
Seeking a used car some years ago I asked for a cash discount for
no trade in and was told that the "discount" would therefore
be a free warranty. I refered them to the sale of Goods Act
and that ALL cars came with an implied warranty of being
"fit for the purpose" and spoke to the local trading standards
man who agreed with me.
The lesson here is to get a discount for no "warranty" other
than implied and spend the saving on minor repairs. You could
have a word with trading standards but would advise against
the small claims court as my experience of judgements here
is that they are erratic to say the least. Mrs M and I got
shafted trying to claim from a contractor with an improperly
signed dangerous roadworks that nearly took a wheel off. He
lied overtly and the judge appeared to encourage him....!!
Meldrew
(I just do not believe it!)
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Thanks HJ, I'll gather the details when we get the car back. I told the guy to put the old exhaust in the boot of the car, which I watched him do. So I don't plan in letting it drop. I'll get back to you on this one!
The only point there Meldrew, is its not a third party warranty. It's an official Volkswagen Approved Used car with a manufacturers warranty. I totally accept that the warranty cover wont pay out on exhaust parts so thats not in question. I just don't want to pay out on exhaust parts that aren't needed. The way it was handled was very poor and thats where my complaint lies.
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Good news, meldrew. If you try Motor Warranty Direct, I believe you will be pleasantly surprised.
I've had four policies. They cover lots of things that others avoid, and they were very fair.
Only problem was the lengthy time before cheque arrival on a couple of occasions but, if you use a garage in their scheme, you don't have to pay anything.
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IMO, this is nothing to do with warranty usefulness, or VW in general. It is just apalling service from this particular dealer.
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I had similarly bad service from my local VW dealer and found they were somewhat economical with the truth. Took my Passat for a 40,000 mile service and asked them to have a look at the brakes since they were making a noise (and had done since I bought my VW Approved 2nd hand car. A seemingly unfixable problem). I got a phone call telling me that the brake pads and discs were totally worn away and needed to be changed. Car dangerous to drive etc etc. The quoted price was absurd and since the pads were only about 5000 miles old I did not believe a word of it. Told him I would take it elsewhere for a 2nd opinion. Funnily enough, when I collected the car the brake problem had become a siezed calliper which they had fixed. I asked the bloke about the allegedly worn pads/discs and he had no answer, except that the pads were OK until the next service.
When I booked the car in I asked for the price of 40,000 mile service. When I collected the car they tried to charge me almost double that, explaining that I had asked the price of a 20,000 mile service. I asked him why I should do that if I wanted a 40,000 mile service. No answer. And why oh why did they charge me a couple of quid for a bottle of screenwash? The car did not need screenwash (I filled it up before I went to the garage) but they charged me and left me a new bottle on the passenger seat. Bloke (lying so and so) tried the old lie of specially formulated for VW cars sir. You don't need a PhD in chemistry to know that is a load of twaddle. And 40 quid for swapping the road wheels around. So, I shall never darken their door again.
Well, not quite true. Some scroat recently took a screwdriver to my door lock and opened all the windows thanks to a neat little feature on 1998 Passats. I took the car to the same dealer for a ball park estimate to help decide whether it was an insurance job or not. I aksed the bodywork bloke if the car was safe without a barrel in the door lock. No problem he says. When I took the car to an indpendent bodywork specialist they demonstrated how to open all the windows with a screwdriver when the car does not have a lock barrel. They then spent about 20 minutes making the car secure - free of charge. Guess where I took the car for a proper repair?
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Slightly off topic, but as I drive a '98 Passat, what's the best way of addressing the screwdriver and window problem? Is there a possible modification to existing system, or do I need an after market ultrasonic alarm? If the latter, should I get a sparkrite or similar self fit (had those before) or one professionally fitted? Can I get one to interface with the central locking, or will I have to have two remotes?
Tim
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Sorry John, Still haven't got the car back, when I get it back (hopefully tomorrow) I will get the VIN number and forward all the details to you.
I appreciate your help in this matter.
Thanks
Stuart
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Sorry John, Still haven't got the car back, when I get it back (hopefully tomorrow) I will get the VIN number
Why not just get it from the log book?
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I have been told by a couple of garages that it is not possible to disable the window opening feature but I hope someone knows better. You don't actually need a screwdriver to open the windows from outside the car- your Passat key will do the job nicely. In fact, the helpful guy at the bodyshop who demonstrated the feature to me reckoned any Passat ley would do the job in any Passat as it is simply mechanical and does not need the keycode generated by the key.
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>Why not just get it from the log book?
Unfortunately it seems to be in the folder in the glove compartment. Bad plan I know.
>I sincerely hope that Crombster takes up HJ's generous offer, >but I shall be surprised if it does happen (because the facts >just will not be there in reality to support the case).
Exactly what is meant by the facts not being there in reality? There was a booking made in another not so local garage, the details of that remain. The old exhaust is in the boot as requested and we have names of the employees in question. We also have an extremely upset Volkswagen customer and certainly where I work, an upset customer is taken seriously provided the complaint is valid!
Unfortunatley I didn't think to capture the day on camcorder, so what I have is the best I can offer!?!
As I said before, I am very grateful to HJ for offering to help and I will forward all relevant details & photographs of the exhaust if needed when the car has been returned.
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Crombster & HJ,
please keep us posted.
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>> Why not just get it from the log book? Unfortunately it seems to be in the folder in the glove compartment. Bad plan I know.
That's an understatement. Not teaching you to suck eggs, but should the VW get nicked you've made the thieves job a whole lot simpler by also providing them with the log book. Not to mention the possibility of voiding the insurance.
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>>Unfortunately it seems to be in the folder in the glove compartment. Bad plan I know.>>
How come you have still not got the car? Where is it? Why the delay in getting it back?
>>Exactly what is meant by the facts not being there in reality? >>
What I mean is that your case seems unbelievable at every turn, and mainly rests on hearsay evidence. You need independent corroboration of what was said by all parties. It helps if you have contemparaneous notes. Every word you have said may be 100% true but unless VW and/or the Dealer are in a generous mood, it will be difficult to prove your case.
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Not really, if he walks into the manager's office and smacks an old exhaust on his desk then he'd be able to go a long way towards proving it didn't need changing!! :)
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I would be a lot keener than Cromboster after such a generous offer.
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I don't understand why you are being so harsh with our poor VW owner here, <0.1%. It isn't exactly a novelty for a car repair business to try it on with a lady owner now, is it?
Maybe just wait until the info gets sent to HJ and then we'll hear from him rather than some cynical assumption-based comment eh?
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s** the VW dealership this board seems to be worse!! What is the point in forwarding all the details if when I do eventualy get the car back there is something else wrong with it!! The story is not over yet, my girlfriends car is not in her drive therefor I do not see the point taking this any further.
As I keep saying I am very grateful for the assistance John is offering, but as I said at the very beginning, I will do so when I have the car back. Infact, this sad story stemmed from the fact that some chancer in the dealership gave my girlfriend 5-10 minutes to provide authorisation! A little patience wouldn't go amiss.
I have no time for nonsense like this. I have receipts totallying over £6000 for repairs and tuning modifications to my V6 Omega, a £150 bill is not a vast amount in the grand scheme of things, and certainly not one I would think twice about paying. However, the situation changes somewhat when I tell my girlfriend to take her new car to a dealership where she can receive the great customer service as she did when she bought the car from another VW Dealer. As it ended with both of us absolutely fuming about the situation I thought it an idea to seek some advice. I do not like to throw money away.
>>Unfortunately it seems to be in the folder in the glove compartment. Bad plan I know.>>
How come you have still not got the car? Where is it? Why the delay in getting it back?
What planet do you come from 0.one%? The car is in a Volkswagen Dealership in Glasgow, it was due back today. The reason for it not being back today is more than likely due to BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE!
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Crombster,
Please don\'t take offence, we have had wind-up merchants in here and been burned when giving them advice - not that I am for one moment suggesting that you are one. >0.one% has been caught by wind-ups before, I think.
Honest John\'s offer was genuinely given, and I recommend you seek his help. I would suggest that you brought him up to speed, even if the episode hasn\'t finished yet. He may well be able to offer specific guidance, or bring pressure to bear sooner.
Mark (RLBS)
Moderator at Work
mailto:mark_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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Within 10 minutes of you posting the original problem, HJ made this offer :... E-mail me with the complaint with full details of the car including reg and VIN, dealer your bought it from, dealer which is causing the trouble and the car owner's name and address and phone number and I'll forward it to VW's PR department. HJ >>
The least you could have done was to send him an e-mail with the details he had asked for (except VIN, explaining why you did not have that) and/or posted a reply on the forum saying the car was unlikely to be back until the end of the week when you would contact him. As it was, HJ had to post again to say he was still waiting for your reply.
Now, even if you thought an e-mail to HJ was unnecessary; my concern is that HJ should not let the lack of courtesy of one person stop him from offering his help to others in future.
I apologise if my posts appeared unhelpful, and I really hope that your issue with VW is proved and resolved. I am being cynical, in my posts above, only because past experience makes me wary of cases like this one.
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I thanked HJ for the offer within 25 minutes and explained that I would collate the details, and photographs and forward them to him. I don't want to waste Johns time as I am sure he has plenty to do rather than take information in dribs and drabs from me.
The car was likely to be back Tuesday or Wednesday (which I stated), this time has now passed and is outwith my control. So now a new issue has arisen with the dealer - that being the time to source a brake pipe and the time my girlfriend is without her car.
I have updated this forum on a daily basis as and when I have access to the Internet. On each occassion I have thanked John and responded to your mindless comments. The only discourteous person I have met on this forum seems to be you.
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<0.One
I hate getting involved here, but why not just leave Crombster to sort it out direct with HJ? Clearly C has suffered poor service and is aware and grateful for HJs offer, but he (and HJ) are grown people and I'm sure can cope with email without your help.
IMHO your posts have, and continue to be, offensive to Crombster, and if I were he I would by now have responded to you in such as fashion as to incur the wrath of moderator.
Too often on this site relatively new people seem to get short shrift for no good reason by some of the "oldies", what is the plan? I don't think it's the kind of attitude which will encourage more people to the site.
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I agree, you do seem a little on the offensive, I'm not as interested in how long it takes but more interested in the outcome. I sincerley hope that if I ever suffer such problems with a main dealer I would have the help of someone like HJ to rely on....
Crombster/HJ Let us know what happens ;)
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<0.One%
Unless you are aware of something which I am not, then I would say that you were being somewhat unwelcoming, a little aggresive and verging on the offensive.
Probably better not, I would think.
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Many thanks to those who are a bit more understanding. I may be fairly new to this board but I have been an active member of various Vauxhall forums for a number of years. Since discovering this forum a few months ago I decided that I would be best to raise this particular problem here. I have seen many wind up merchants in my time, however my story seems a tad boring compared to what most wind up merchants conjure up!
I am happy to forward what I have on your advice Mark. My reluctance to do so was purely down to the fact that I did not want to give an incomplete story as I have yet to arrive at the end. I will though provide what I have so far.
Thanks again
Stuart
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Is their Bentley fixed then?
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Perhaps <0.One% is the service manager at a VW dealership??
David W
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First, I would like to say that it is satisfying that Crombster has been persuaded to send his details to HJ. As with everyone else here, I look forward to hearing the final outcome and as I have said previously, I really hope it is resolved to his satisfaction. The rest of this post is just to close the loop regarding my posts above.
Mark (RLBS): I have re-read my posts and cannot see how I am being ?unwelcoming, or aggressive, or offensive? but would accept that I appear harsh; and you are right to guess that I have come across wind-up merchants before. However, to answer the question asked by Smokie:
Smokie said ?Clearly C has suffered poor service? and ?what is the plan??
My answer is ?Do not jump to conclusions that VW/dealer are guilty (innocent until proven guilty), give VW/dealer a chance to have their say? and as regards my plan, here goes:
My plan is basically summed up by the words ?philanthropy, altruism, and fairness?. In my ?occupation?, I fortunately have the time and resources to give my services entirely free of charge (expenses and time) to deserving cases. I take on about 3 to 4 cases a year, that are referred to me via word of mouth, and are usually against the ?big boys? of FTSE350 Companies. The type of cases I deal with are mainly similar to those of ?Jessica Investigates? in the Telegraph on Saturdays. 99.9% of the cases are resolved to the satisfaction of both parties, and quite often result in the ?big-boys? changing their procedures to improve their systems and so that they deal fairly with all customers in future. However, in the course of this type of work, I come across people on either side where the words ?whinger?, ?moaner?, ?timewaster?, ?troublemaker?, ?stirrer? and such like come to mind, and you develop an instinct for recognising them. My posts were intended to urge/nudge Crombster to take up HJ?s offer without delay, because while he was not doing so, his tale could be charecterised as follows:
You see what you believe is a robbery in progress, with a gun being held at someone?s head.
You ring 999 and shout "Murder" (VW MOT Con), then tell them you have witnessed a person being robbed.
They tell you ?give us all the details and we will try to help you?.
You reply ?Wait a while, although I know the persons name (car registration no.), I do not know their DNA (car?s VIN no.), I will get back to you later?.
Bystanders urge you to give as much detail as you can, immediately, but you tell them ?the robbery is still in progress, and a murder might yet happen, and so I will not waste 999 time now, but will get back to them after the murder has taken place?.
(The bystanders could legitimately ask ?so why did you call 999 in the first place??, but as I am not one of these bystanders, and as this is the end of my contribution to this thread, I will not ask the question.)
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Ignoring the above, I would like to say that we have the car back and upon collection my girlfriend was dealt with by the same person that we first spoke to, only this time she was all smiley and nice. She appologised for the delay, and said how the service manager chap (that we previously argued with) has given us a 10% discount on the exhaust and charged 0.7 hours labour instead of 1. This seems to have saved amost £40 bring the total bill including mot to £140.
The old exhaust I now have:
www.theloft.dynip.com/images/golf1.jpg
www.theloft.dynip.com/images/golf2.jpg
As the service chap said they didnt have a welder, perhaps it would be a good idea to invest in one to avoid situations like this. He must have felt somewhat guilty to offer the discount.
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A garage that doesn't have a welder? Is fettling a lost art as well?
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I can't see how they manage it personaly. But that was their reason for not repairing the bracket!
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The old exhaust I now have: www.theloft.dynip.com/images/golf1.jpg www.theloft.dynip.com/images/golf2.jpg
Looking at the pics, I must say that the exhaust does look corroded. But providing it isn't blowing and is securely fixed to the car, then it should pass an MOT.
A complete bodge I know, but that bracket could have been re-attached the pipe with a couple of Jubilee clips. Don't mock, I know of garages that would have done it that way!!
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<0.One%
I am sure that you didn't intend offence, and perhaps "harsh" is indeed a better description.
Best left there, I would say.
Mark.
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Most exhausts are covered in surface rust after a few months. Strangely enough the stainless steel system on my Omega has blotches of surface rust?!?
The box though is absolutely solid, as are the pipes at either end. I am quite sure that given the low mileage the car does the box would have lasted a considerable amount of time. The car has only done 23K which isn't a vast amount considering I replaced the original system on the Omega at 70K.
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It isn't mileage that determines an exhaust's life, it's the useage patterns, a lot of city runs can rust an exhaust thru in no time, I saw a V reg Fiesta with an exhaust that had rusted thru and snapped in half with corrosion after been used for only short city runs as the exhaust never gets thoroughly hot and so water condenses in it causing the inevitable...
A mate's mam has an X reg Punto that has done over 100,000 miles and it is still on it's original exhaust and clutch due to the fact it does virtually nothing but motorway runs with a hot exhaust...
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Crombster,
I would have sorted a customer out exactly as Dynamic Dave says, no need to fiddle about or take the exhaust off...just a couple of jubilee clips put on in a few minutes.
I bet the jubilee clips would have out lasted the silencer anyway, I would give that one another 9-12mths max.
There are loads of "DW bodges" running about the Fens like this. Folks are well pleased when you say I've replaced a bracket with a crafty repair for a fiver all in when a center section might be £90.
David W
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Crombster - unrelated, but what did the stainless cost your for the Omega? I'm considering going that way
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I had it fitted by the local Powerflow dealer - MMV Perfomance in Stirling for around £360. It's a twin pipe system that doesnt create a great deal of noise - near standard during normal driving with an added subtle throaty rumble during hard acceleration. Plus it comes with a life time guarantee which im quite happy with.
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Crombster,
I cannot understand why people pay garages to undertake minor jobs / servicing.
Anyone can check tyre pressure, replace faulty bulbs and fuses, {granted probs if fuses keep blowing} swap tyres back to front {but what?s the point anyway - see CH4?s Driven a year or so ago}, fill washer bottles, check battery connections, oil and coolant levels, brake fluid levels, wiper blades, change air filter, check HT leads {sparks in the dark, from the leads ? faulty leads}, replace a battery that keeps going flat, test the alternator {an engine at tick over slows when headlamps put on full ? if not then fault with alternator / wiring}, clean number plates, pump up spare tyre etc etc etc.
A very minor amount of knowledge and you can change the oil and oil filter and spark plugs {don?t try the latter on a diesel} check the tension / condition of drive belts. Even front brake pads are very very easy to replace.
You can take the car your self to brake, suspension, exhaust and tyre centres ? they don?t charge labour ? fitted prices quoted. I was talking to a female at a B&B in the Lakes recently who paid £170 for a part exhaust system at a Network Q dealer for her warranted Vauxhall Nova. I got a whole new exhaust fitted to my 2-litre estate for £90 at a local independent exhaust centre.
Then you can instruct a garage to carry out ONLY the jobs that you cannot do / arrange to have done yourself. Better to spend a couple of hours of your time running around and making ?phone calls, than to pay a garage £30 + vat per hour to do it for you. It can be fun too
Haynes manuals tell you how to prepare your car for the MoT. Anyone who takes a car for a MoT with a duff bulb and tells the garage to fix it, deserves to be charged 45 mins labour for the privilege.
Incidentally one of my cars failed the MoT on a cracked windscreen. As TPFT no windscreen cover. The MoT centre wanted £370 to fix it . A few phone calls and a local company came to my house and fixed it for £98 incl VAT {i.e fitted a new tinted screen!}
Also, everywhere that I have ever used for a MoT {car and motorcycle}, has given a free re-test {if needed} as long as the vehicle is returned within 10 days. As most of you know, you can take your car in up to one month before the MoT expires. If it passes, you get 13 months MoT, it if fails on a minor item{s} and is not considered unsafe, you can still drive it around.
Not sure than why you {Crombster with the Golf} were threatened with a re-test fee ? is this VW / main dealer policy. Never had a VW and always avoid main dealers.
Also I?ve never come across an MoT ing garage that does not have welding equipment. There are still some Rover cars from the mid 1990s left on the road and as such many will need some welding at each MoT, until that is the cost of the welding and other mechanical work, exceeds the value of the Rover and the car is finally scrapped.
Paul
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Paul,
What you say is true. However the Warranty on new cars is often 3 or even 5 years. The car has to be serviced in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions to protect that Warranty. For many people the rip off prices charged by main dealers are simply insurance.
Try getting them to honour a warranty if it has had DIY servicing.
C
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>> Try getting them to honour a warranty if it has hadDIY servicing.
Previous Vauxhall garage I used to deal with were happy to honour the warranty if I did the work myself, providing I used Vauxhall approved parts and kept receipts to prove when the work was done.
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I may only be a student but I still find I have a busy life, spending hours servicing the car and crawling around underneath it whilst it is precariously balanced on blocks of wood is not my idea of fun! I would rather pay my local main dealers £120 to do the service and then i can spend a couple of hours cleaning and polishing it instead, much better! :)
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I couldn't agree more with you Paul, my background is more IT or financial than mechanical, but I can still change camshafts and timing belts and anything else the V6 Omega has flung at me. As I bought the car at a young age (18) I could barely afford to keep it on the road never mind pay dealer rates to have it serviced. My last tenner bought a Haynes manual and it has served me well.
I have my car MOT'd at a local garage with whom I am quite friendly with. Any work that needs doing is pointed out in a friendly manner at which point I can authorise them to make the repair at reasonable cost, or I can do it myself, or I can take it elsewhere and return in asap. However, as my girlfriend still had the VW used warranty in place, and also not thinking the car was likely to fail I told her to take it to the dealer. The dealership we bough it from were superb and corrected any faults we had without a word. Perhaps I was naive in thinking all dealers were as courteous.
As you know already I made the wrong decision and will not be returning to main dealers for quite some time. As for the re-test fee, I have in the past been given time to rectify faults - VW however were insistant on charging the full test fee again should I decide to take the car away. This immediately adds £40 on to the bill of any repair I make elsewhere, effectively eliminating the point in removing the car.
The fact that they do not own a welder may be an outright lie, which if true is more worrying than the shoddy customer service alone.
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