Had a minor crash
Turned left into a new road and got caught by very bright and low sun. caught a car going the other way (my osf damaged other car osr damage), a scrape. Now that is the basics
But already had sun glasses on and visor down but the sun was really bright I did not see the other car, I was was going really slowly anyway 10 mph if not less, and guided my car along the white lines in the road which I could see
Insurance says that it will cost me 20% claim which is reluctantly OK but they say I am fully to blame and will load my insurance with extra penalty
I do not see how I could have prevented the accident
The road is quit narrow 630cm wide so the other car would be very close to the centre of the road too, in addition their were cars parked on the pavement
OK maybe i should have stopped but then what? Some one would hit me in the rear and it be my fault also
ok thoughts please
and please keep this on topic as i posted elsewhere and got no place
Thinking of going to see a lawyer
de-capatalised the Sun to avoid confusion with the red top !
Edited by Pugugly on 20/02/2009 at 15:33
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It sounds like the sort of accident that insurance is there for. I feel for you, but it does sound like it was your fault, even if you were the victim of the particular circumstances. I can't see how a lawyer could help - who would you try and blame?
Unfortunately I think you are right: you will now get hammered for additional premiums in future years.
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I kind of resigned to that but legally to be blamed for an accident you need to be negligent
The weather conditions at the time greatly to the accident (act of God)
If your chimney blows down in high wind and damages your neighbours car you can not be held responsible - unless you knew your chimney was in bad state of repair.
Edited by mark one on 20/02/2009 at 13:35
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But if you could not see... perhaps you should have stopped?
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Perhaps,
left the car in the middle of the road, went home had a cup of coffee and come back when the sun went down
If I had seen even a glimpse of the other car I might have, but the car was was not visible and it wasn't visible because of the sun
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I have to say I have never been that blinded in 16 years of driving. Were there any contributing factors? How clean was your windscreen? Do you suffer from any minor sight problems that could have compounded the situation?
To me it sounds like an accident. But, I'm intrigued - whose insurance do you think should pay out if not yours? The car you hit? Or do you think that you should both mend your own cars?
Now if you were on the correct side of the road and not across the white line then I think you have more of a case against the other driver, and the sun becomes almost irrelevant, but I'm guessing that's not the case from what you've said?
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Was it a Japanese car coming out of the sun???
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To be prosecuted for the accident you would need to be negligent. To have your insurance pay out for it [I think] it just needs to be your fault (?). In this case, unfortunate as it sounds, it does sound like it was your fault.
DVD or someone with similar expertise will probably be along at some point to give you a much more definitive answer.
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Surely if he could see the white lines and was following them then the other car must have been on the wrong side of the road!
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I had a word with a traffic cop and was told it be unlikely I would be persecuted - if the police were called - but you need to be negligent in civil proceeding to be at fault too (I know this from my one year of law at collage)
Their are also degrees of negligence
car must have been on the wrong side of the road!
I think we were both in the middle of the road, the lady in the other car was so apologetic >> Surely if he could see the white lines and was following them then the other
Can I post photos on here?
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I had a word with a traffic cop and was told it be unlikely I would be persecuted - if the police were called - but you need to be negligent in civil proceeding to be at fault too (I know this from my one year of law at collage)
So, I'll ask again. Whose insurance are you proposing should pay for the damage caused by this collision? Someone's has to, the sun isn't insured.
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I had a word with a traffic cop and was told it be unlikely I would be persecuted
Most Backroomers seem to be of the opinion that they'll be persecuted by the police whatever the occasion or circumstances!
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If you hit the other car then you are at fault. At the end of the day you were driving, not the sun. The sun is not insured - you are.
>Thinking of ging to see a lawyer
dont waste your money
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Don't concern yourself with the extra premiums. I had a claim - if you feel disgruntled mine was parked and hit by a joyrider so I was in no way at fault - yet it cost me 20% of my NCB.
Fact is once you get quotes for insurance next year you may not see a massive rise in your premium - the year after my claim I actually paid less than the year of the accident.
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OK maybe i should have stopped but then what? Some one would hit me in the rear and it be my fault also
Your logic escapes me here, why would it be your fault?
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I still cannot fathom a few things though:
- Not being able to see a car but can see the white lines
- You're on your side of the white lines and collide with the other car. So if you are both on your own sides of the road how did you collide? If you were both in the middle of the road then it would be a front impact but you said the impact was to the side of the two cars.
Something does not add up. If the other car was on your side of the road then maybe they are partly to blame?
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If I was the owner of the other car and a vehicle 'joined' the road and hit me, who's fault is it. It sure is not mine. Regards Peter
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persecuted - if the police were called - but you need to be negligent in civil
>>proceeding to be at fault too (I know this from my one year of law at collage)
You did a year of law at collage (sic) and hope not to be persecuted (sic). Yeah right.
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> The road is quite narrow, 630cm wide ...
Hmm. 6.3 metres = just over 20 feet. That's not a narrow road IMHO. Ten feet per car leaves quite a bit of room for passing, unless there was a parked car somewhere.
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Lets see:
Cars on pavement : that's approx 2 metres width gone. (incl clearance space)
The road is 6 metres wide.. so 3 metres on your side less 2 metres = 1 metre on your side of the road.
You were therefore straddling the white line. With driver;s side wheel in the opposite lane.
Your fault.
(or you account of what happened or dimensions are all wrong)
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OK
Lets say instead of the sun its black ice you hit the ice go skidding into another car your fault?
Edited by mark one on 20/02/2009 at 16:41
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OK Lets say instead of the sun its black ice you hit the ice go flying into another car your fault?
Yes. You lost control of your car, no driver no skid.
Edited by Old Navy on 20/02/2009 at 16:44
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Mark, you obviously don't like what you've been told... but in this case the answer was in your hands, if you couldn't see then you should have pulled over and stopped. You are in control of the car and only you can decide if conditions are ok to drive, you decided they were, but it seems that they weren't... your decision, your fault... but thats why you take insurance... for when things go wrong, an expensive lesson to learn, but we've all done daft things in the past and paid for it, its a fact of life!
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SQ
Yes. You lost control of your car no driver no skid.
Did not loose control I just did not see the other car due to nature
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 20/02/2009 at 18:58
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I was replying to your hypothetical "ice" scenario.
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Reminds me of a minor accident I had many years ago. The road was hard-packed glazed snow, like a skating rink. I had just turned into a side road and had to pass a long line of parked cars. The road was clear so I edged past them. As I was nearly past, a car came in the opposite direction at about 30 mph - much too fast for the conditions, and hit the side of my car just as I was pulling back to my own side of the road. The other driver maintained it was my fault because he had right of way and I was on the wrong side of the road. I maintained that he was driving (much) too fast to be able to stop in the distance he could see to be clear, which constituted careless driving. In the end it was a knock-for-knock settlement.
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Sorry to go on, but I was in a accident a few years ago were the tyre on a car burst and skidded across the road hitting my van, I could not claim anything
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A blow out is something that happens thats outside your control (assuming you look after your car)... dangerous driving conditions like low sun and black ice are avoidable... either by stopping or taking more care... you chose to drive in conditions where you couldn't see... that was your choice so why try to blame others (and the sun)?
Edited by b308 on 20/02/2009 at 16:52
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> I was in a accident a few years ago where the tyre on a car burst ...
There is a difference - the burst tyre made that car temporarily uncontrollable. That did not apply in your case; despite the sun you were still in control. I don't believe that at the moment you made the turn you were completely unaware of where the sun was, so you can't really pin the blame anywhere else.
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I am a little confused regarding this.
1. You obviously do not feel responsible for any damages caused.
2. If your car was damaged by someone in the circumstances as you describe ie. you were travelling along the main road you would be quite happy to sort out your own damage i assume from what you say.
3. If you do not feel responsible who do you think should cover the damages i do not think the sun or god has an insurance policy.
4.Do you have a full no claims bonus if so have you considered protecting it then you dont lose any of it with a claim.
5. From what your saying if a vehicle loses control due to a spillage of diesel from an untraced vehicle for example and collides with your car and writes it off you would have no problem claiming off your insurance only and not involving the other party.
6. if your vision was so impeded was it wise to continue driving blind anything could have happened. you could have been turning on to a pedestrian crossing and flattened someone. At least its only a bit of damage.
7. I would leave it with the insurance thats what you pay for assuming its fully comprehensive.
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If Mark really could not see properly and continued driving I think he's lucky he hit a car. What if someone was crossing the road and was in the middle when he came down it. If you'd injured someone or worse you'd be in a situation a lot worse than you are.
This does sound like an accident that may not have been easily avoided. You turn into a road and the sun is really bright. You could not anticipate that in all honesty. And he was not going at speed.
But this is why we have insurance. Life is too short to wonder these things. Unless the other driver was easily proved to be partly to blame, you have to accept these things and move on. Yes it's money but nobody was injured or worse.
It probably would be no different if you suddenly had a stroke or had a heart attack and hit someone with the car... still an accident.
So unless some new info shows up we're debating something that is not worth debating and this thread may end up locked later (that's my other hat on as a mod there).
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This thread is freaking me out. I swear I've already seen this exact topic on here in the last few months, but I can't find it on forum search at all.
Am I right? Can anyone else remember it? Or am I having a massive deja vu moment?
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BazzaBear, I cannot recall such a thread. If we wait a few minutes, jbif will find the link if it's there. He's efficient at site searches and very useful at times ;-)
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"You turn into a road and the sun is really bright. You could not anticipate that in all honesty"
This time of year the sun is low. If the roads are wet and its sunny it makes driving difficult.
You are driving down a road and the sun is on your right. You turn right then you are going to turn into the glare of the sun. I don't see that is sudden and unpredictable.
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Aha! I understand now. Turns out the 'other forum' the OP alluded to is also one which I am a member of. Git much the same answer there (although it got sidetracked somewhat into whether you should admit it's your fault if it is)
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am I having a massive deja vu moment?
No, it's been mentioned before. My R Type Bentley sustained unaffordable rear o/s body damage when some little car drove into the little car behind at about 40mph as we waited peacefully in broad daylight at a traffic light in Marylebone Rd. The Bentley was driveable but really for parts from then on. Both the other cars were wrecks, leaking oil and water. The culprit claimed to have been 'blinded by a reflection'. Amazingly no one murdered him on the spot.
I don't suggest the op is that sort of chap of course.
Edited by Lud on 20/02/2009 at 18:36
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When my cousin used to fall off his motorbike (a regular occurence), he'd blame a cat, dog or rabbit that ran across the road just as he was approaching. When my son wrote off my wife's car, he blamed the wet road; on another occasion when he ran into the back of a car that had to stop quickly for a child on a bike, he blamed it on the car's lack of ABS!
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If you make a turn and are blinded by the sun then you hit the brake, and fast.
Simple really, and if someone runs into the back of you then it's their fault for not being able to stop, not yours.
Accept you're not perfect, none of us are, and take it like a man ( or a good woman!)
Pat
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I turned into a local road yesterday. Slowed down to maybe 5mph at most. Then a taxi tried pulling out on the left but in my direction next to the junction from behind a parked car! I hit the break to stop and let him go. Had I expected a car to pull out and drive towards me on my side of the road after my turn? No. Could I stop? Yes. You have to drive at a speed where you can stop if something happens.
Edited by rtj70 on 20/02/2009 at 19:12
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Off-topic but mentioned above is "Why not protect your NCB?"
- because it is a hoooooge con-trick.
Adds 10% to your premium, while having a fault-claim will cost you 20%.
Unless you plan on having a fault claim every 2 years you'll pay more than it saves.
If you plan on claiming every 2 years you'll never get a full NCB in the first place ;-)
Edited by Lygonos on 20/02/2009 at 21:20
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Well you guys are so much better drivers then I am, you can see into the future and see round corners and have the thinking and reaction times of F1 drivers and fighter pilots
me I could not see what I hit until I got out of the car
I bet the majority also believe if you get hit in the rear the fault of the driver behind and never the driver in front
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I bet the majority also believe if you get hit in the rear the fault of the driver behind and never the driver in front
If you get hit from behind it will almost always be their fault because they were driving too close. If you do an emergency stop and someone hits you from behind - their fault.
I was in a situation where impact to rear of a car was the fault of that car - reversing to avoid some thugs trying to smash the windows. So there are some exceptions.
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I am glad it was just a car you hit then and not a person.
A bit sarcastic your comments but your initial posting seemed to be about responsibility for the incident.
You have been asked several times if not your responsibility then who do you think should bear responsibility but you fail to answer.
I think there are more important issues in life to be getting on with than a pair of lightly damaged cars.
Society seems to be obsessed with a blame culture were no one takes responsibility for their actions and wishes to apportion blame elsewhere.
If one of your relatives was wiped out by a driver facing the exact same circumstances as you did would you be quite happy to say oh thats ok the sun was in your eyes and you drove blind thats fine!!!!!!!!!!!
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I am quite happy - well that is the wrong word - to loose the 20% no claims but I am trying to avoid the loading for a at fault accident
None of you have exactly told me how you would have avoided the accident
If someone walks out in front of your car and you hit them is it your fault
You guys seem to suggest yes because you should have known people walk the streets and cross roads, slowed down as the other person approached the kerb and be driving slowly enough not to hit them. so do you pull up every time you see someone on the kerb
Well sorry but that is the equivalent Ok it was a sunny day - I had sun glasses on and visor down - but I went round a corner the sun was brighter their then previously because it was so strong it was reflecting of the car making it invisible how could I possibly avoided it if I could not see it
its not a case of blame culture. if it was I would have been saying its not my fault the other driver should have realised I was in trouble and not only signalled their presence but moved over
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We are still trying to understand some of the facts. Did you for example cross the white line in the middle of the road? If so was it solid?
From what has been said by you (mark one) it looks like you admit to hitting the other car but want to get out of the responsibility? Is that correct? If not the alternative it was the other drivers fault and you can claim all against them?
As for:
If someone walks out in front of your car and you hit them is it your fault
Almost certainly yes! Unless they jump out at the last moment then you would have seen them and anticipated they may step out and slowed ready to stop. No?
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Bit late to this. I agree with the general consensus.
And you asked "....so do you pull up every time you see someone on the kerb "
Of course not, but if there is room (and if you are concentrating you can usually make room, by slowing so you coincide with a gap in the other direction) I will move away from the kerb in case they do something unexpected. Especially if they are close to the edge of the kerb, and even more especially if they are kids.
You also said "I bet the majority also believe if you get hit in the rear the fault of the driver behind and never the driver in front". That, as I understand it, is the default legal position. I was rear-ended on a motorway by someone who could/did not stop as quickly as I did. We were all following too close for the speed, but at that time only one of us was doing it in such a way that he or his car couldn't stop in time. OK, I may have been lucky, but how's that my fault?
Edited by smokie on 21/02/2009 at 08:50
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I bet the majority also believe if you get hit in the rear the fault of the driver behind and never the driver in front
yes we do - because it is.
you dont seem to be able to grasp the idea that you hit the other car because thats where you drove your car. the emphasis is on the *you*
we have accidents - sometimes its our fault, you seemed to think you are blameless, where we tend to recognise we made a mistake.
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>> I bet the majority also believe if you get hit in the rear the fault >> of the driver behind and never the driver in front yes we do - because it is.
Huh! I wish it was!
I had some idiot run into the back of my car whist stationary, handbrake on, and I was about to get out the car.. long story cut short, it went to court, and I lost! (he magicked up some witnesses, family of his partner... they turned up 5 mins after impact, in court they were in a following car!)
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...and reaction times of F1 drivers and fighter pilots
Well actually...fighter pilots have targeted eye protection for a wide range of spectral wavelengths including laser etc.
I suggest you consider upgrading your current sunglasses to a type that provides you with sufficient anti-dazzle protection against bright sunlight for your particular eye configuration.
Settle the claim (it's only money after all) and implement the above suggestion to provide you with future anti-dazzle protection.
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> Well you guys are so much better drivers then I am ..
It is beginning to sound as if that is the case .. :¬)
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Before someone says something that offends, the advice seems to be:
Unless you have proof the other driver hit you, then accept the blame and move on
Yes it will cost but life has bigger challenges and issues and from what has been said by you, you have no other option. If the other driver was partly to blame your insurance would be on to this. So unless you can sue the bloke controlling the bright light from the sun... move on.
Edited by rtj70 on 20/02/2009 at 23:36
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I'm sorry, Mark 1, if you think some of us unsympathetic: but if you would like to tell us what this phrase means -
"and guided my car along the white lines in the road which I could see".....
- we might understand. Taken literally, if your car straddled the white line(s) in the centre of the road, then it wouldn't be surprising that you hit someone coming the other way - and you need to think what it would have been like to be that other person.
If you were your own side of the lines, then presumably the other person was on your side of the road and therefore at fault.
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And if you literally couldn't see the end of your bonnet, then you were misguided in continuing to drive.
No ifs, ands, or buts.
Replace the "other car" with "small child". Now reconsider you original points.
When you ask if you should have parked the car, gotten out and relaxed for a bit until the sun was less glaring, then yes, you should have if your visibility was zero.
- "sun was brighter their then previously because it was so strong it was reflecting of the car making it invisible"
- "me I could not see what I hit until I got out of the car"
- "I would have been saying its not my fault the other driver should have realised I was in trouble and not only signalled their presence but moved over "
EH ? Really? Signalled their presence by flashing their headlights - from an invisible car? You drove your car into a spot you couldn't see.
It's not long since a man was found guilty of manslaughter for reversing over a pedestrian on a country road in his 4x4 because the rather short pedestrian was below the eyeline out the back window.
You are responsible at all times for where you conciously put your car. having a blow out or a heart attack at the wheel are exceptions as there is no concious/pre-existing knowledge that you could be putting others at risk (unless you already know you have heart disease).
Don't worry about the insurance loading for an accident - it is rarely noticeable unless you've had another fault claim in the past few years.
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One has to agree with what people are saying. But a low sun can sometimes catch one by surprise, especially if the windscreen is a bit grotty, when one is moving.
When something inconvenient happens as a result, the thing to do is write it down to experience. Let the insurances sort it out and don't try to persuade yourself that you weren't at fault at all (assuming you were, a bit at least).
It just isn't possible to drive many miles without anything a bit embarrassing ever happening. These things aren't the end of the world. Lygonos is right.
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"but I am trying to avoid the loading for a at fault accident"
YOU can't because to some extent it is YOUR fault.
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"but I am trying to avoid the loading for a at fault accident"
Look insurance companies base their premiums on risk. They have fabulous systems for deciding risk. One thing they always assume (because history shows them right) that if a driver has an accident then they are at greater risk of having another (because of how they drive, or where they live, or the time of day they drive, or the type of roads they drive etc etc etc)
by the evnts that have happened, you are proven to be a driver at greater risk than the norm so you will be loaded. The chances are the poor person you hit will be loaded next time as well.
what i find worrying is your complete refusal to shoulder any responsibility for your driving. By trying to blame the sun and not see how better you may have handled this situation, frankly makes you deserving of higher loading.
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None of you have exactly told me how you would have avoided the accident
We have, several times... you should have STOPPED!
You yourself said that you couldn't see... but kept driving... then you had an accident, what a surprise!
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"If someone walks out in front of your car and you hit them is it your fault"
Many years ago I was driving through Leeds city centre,the pavements were thronged.I noticed a woman approaching the N/S kerb,she seemed to be in a world of her own so I started slowing.She stepped off the pavement without looking,I braked and skidded to a halt a foot from her, at which point she turned and saw me,the colour drained from her face.Had I not slowed and hit her I would have had some responsibility,when peds approach the kerb it means they want to walk in the road,you cannot rely on them to always be on the ball,especially kids.Oberservation and anticipation are crucial for driving.
Apart from extenuating circumstances insurance cos. have to apportion blame-"caught a car going the other way",not "a car coming the other way caught me".It seems like you are saying you hit them,it can hardly be their fault even if the sun was blinding you.
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> A low sun can sometimes catch one by surprise, especially if the windscreen is a bit grotty ..
I suspect that both sides of the screen may have been 'a bit grotty'. It often surprises me what I clean off the inner windscreen, even in a non-smokers' car. Must be accumulated exhaust fumes. But it will certainly reduce your seeing when you suddenly hit bright sun.
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One has to agree with what people are saying. But a low sun can sometimes catch one by surprise especially if the windscreen is a bit grotty when one is moving.
I got caught out by a low sun about two years ago - driving (slowly!) up a short, steep street one morning with the sun perfectly aligned at the end of the road, I forgot about the parked car near the end, until it suddenly emerged from the glare right in front of me. I decided to take a different route on clear mornings until well into spring after that!
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Forgive me if I am off the mark, but do you live under a bridge and terrorise passing billy goats?
I can't imagine any circumstances where it's a good idea to carry on driving if you can't see properly.
Yes, I suppose you can be caught out by low sun, but that wasn't the case here - you carried on when you couldn't see. You are lucky not to have hit something more than a glancing blow.
Without wishing to be gratuitously unkind, if yours is a true story I think you are guilty at the very least of careless driving - I suspect that the only reason you aren't being prosecuted is lack of evidence, though on your account the facts as admitted seem to speak for themselves.
I'd be very angry if you hit me and then told me you'd been following the white line because you couldn't see anything else.
Think yourself lucky that you didn't kill yourself or an innocent victim.
Edited by Manatee on 21/02/2009 at 11:25
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Come on folks... lay off a little bit.
It's sometimes a very bitter pill to swallow to accept that there is nobody to blame but yourself, and somewhat natural to seek someone else to blame rather than admit your own possible shortcomings.
Looks like the Mark One has got the answers he needed (though not the answer he wanted) - now can we switch back to helpful mode and turn off the superior, snipey stuff please?
Thanks!
Mark - please don't sue the sun. I'm kind of hoping he might find some time to brighten the place up this year and with the credit crunch and everything (imagine what his energy bills are like!) I think you suing him might send him over the edge.
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PoloGirl - one thing the sun will not have is an energy bill, as he has discovered the secret of endless free nuclear fusion ...
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PoloGirl - one thing the sun will not have is an energy bill as he has discovered the secret of endless free nuclear fusion ...
Err not quite. Free yes, endless No. The sun is due to run out of fuel in about 5 billion years.
Plenty of time left for mark one to blame it tho
Edited by Altea Ego on 21/02/2009 at 17:57
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But when it goes nobody on Earth can sue - it will take this planet with it when it goes.
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Ah, but we'll have joined the Dolphins and Mice by then... hopefully!
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And the mice will have designed and built Earth mark II ;-) But we know the answer already - 42.
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Yes I suppose you can be caught out by low sun but that wasn't the case here - you carried on when you couldn't see. You are lucky not to have hit something more than a glancing blow.
Having reread this post from the start, something has just occurred to me, from the OP's OP, 2nd sentence.... 'caught a car going the other way (my osf damaged other car osr damage), a scrape.'
OSF impacts OSR? unless the other car was a Smart it would have be visible through the side window just before impact.
something else - 'in addition their were cars parked on the pavement' surely these cars would be parked too close to the junction, hence causing an obstruction, something the OP could have put to the police as a valid factor in the accident?
From the highway code.....
''242
You MUST NOT leave your vehicle or trailer in a dangerous position or where it causes any unnecessary obstruction of the road.
[Laws RTA 1988, sect 22 & CUR reg 103]''
More facts needed and maybe a map/photo of the junction?
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In a spirit of being helpful, I suggest that Mark One might enjoy taking positive steps to making his driving as good and as safe as it can be.
- if you haven't read it for a while, get an up to date Highway Code and read through it a couple of times. There are rules, most of us would probably write them differently if it was up to us, but it's a good starting point to know what they are.
- get hold of, and work through, a copy of Roadcraft. If you can absorb and apply the contents, you will be a better driver than most of those around you and well equipped to avoid acidents.
- if it appeals, join the local IAM group for a while and get some feedback on your driving. I did this 25 years ago and the process of evaluation, and just thinking more about defensive driving, I found very useful. It also taught me that there is such a thing as an accident which is not your fault, but which you might still avoid by being a better driver.
- always give your whole attention to driving, or at least most of it. Very few people do.
I have done all these things. I don't think I'm the world's best driver, and I've got away with a couple of lamentable lapses of attention, but although I've been rear-ended and sideswiped a couple of times, once by an uninsured driver which cost me my no claims discount, I haven't actually hit anything since 1977 (reaches for wood).
I'm sorry you had an accident, try and regard it as a near miss, and resolve to avoid it happening again ;-)
Edited by Manatee on 21/02/2009 at 12:11
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i21.photobucket.com/albums/b282/eborp/wood/crash.j...g
PS Map npt to scale
Edited by mark one on 21/02/2009 at 16:29
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Just to add the red mark is where I got dazzled the x is where i caught the car
Also to add the car was not at the junction when I started to turn in
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From yr diagram, it looks as if you might have been a bit wide Mk1.
As Manatee says, we have all got away with similar bits of imprecision, and some of us haven't... I would want to sue the sun too for leaping out from between those two houses...
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Mark - others would have given up long ago...you appear to be carrying on digging! :-)
smokie, Moderator
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I thought the diagram was a bit self-deprecating, Smokie... perhaps constituting a partial admission.
Edited by Lud on 21/02/2009 at 17:00
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Edited by mark one on 21/02/2009 at 17:02
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The most dangerous driver is one who thinks he can never make a mistake or be in the wrong.
Pat
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Turn right out of my drive, go up to the Give Way sign to turn right again or go straight across.........I just don't bother this time of year in the morning on a bright day. There's the brow of a rail bridge about 75 yds away, the sun ( bless him ) sits on the horizon at the top of the slope and if the road is wet with dew you can't see anything coming over it. I just go the other way round where there are no dazzle problems. Longer but safer !
Ted
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"please don't sue the sun. I'm kind of hoping he might find some time to brighten the place up this year"
Might even shine through a window and consume a few Vampires as it reflects from computer screens...
L`escargot is always on here before dawn.... worrying really.. anyone see "Snails from Mars"?
Edited by oilrag on 21/02/2009 at 18:30
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"And the mice will have designed and built Earth mark II"... (rtj70, above)
...And lo, Mark II knew not where he was going. And it came to pass that he was blinded by the sun, and crossed the white line.
What goes around, comes around.... :)
Edited by Avant on 21/02/2009 at 22:33
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Avant. That made me laugh. But I hadn't remembered at time of posting the OP called himself Mark One :-) You know I was referring to Hitch Hikers because of the reference to mice and dolphins.
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