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Wed 9 Nov 2005 22:04

Emergency stop by passenger - henry k

If a driver is seriously incapacitated or just pretty unwell at the wheel, what can / should the passenger do to control the vehicle.

My question has arisen since I changed to an auto and I realise my wife, a non driver, is not familiar with an auto box.

In the old old days, ideas like - steer first, turn off the ignition, select neutral heave on the handbrake and pray might have worked.
Today with column locks, power steering, servo brakes etc. switching off the ignition might not be a good idea.
It is a whole different situation these days.

Has anyone experience this situation?
Any advice would be useful.

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Wed 9 Nov 2005 22:41

Emergency stop by passenger - David Horn

1) Steer
2) Push gearbox into neutral (may or may not need a catch pulling. Mine didn't)
3) Pull on handbrake
4) Panic?

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Wed 9 Nov 2005 23:27

Emergency stop by passenger - mfarrow

I'm probably missing a trick here, but...

What would prevent you from turning the ignition off? Surely if the engine's still turning you've got PAS still pumping (unless it's electrically driven...) and vacuum in the inlet manifold for the brake servo?

--------------
Mike Farrow

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Wed 9 Nov 2005 23:40

Emergency stop by passenger - PhilW

"What would prevent you from turning the ignition off?"
Careful, or you'll turn on the steering lock!!
Phil

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Wed 9 Nov 2005 23:44

Emergency stop by passenger - mfarrow

"What would prevent you from turning the ignition off?"

Careful, or you'll turn on the steering lock!!

On my car that only happens if you remove the key.

--------------
Mike Farrow

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Thu 10 Nov 2005 10:27

Emergency stop by passenger - martint123

On my car that only happens if you remove the key.

Every car I've had (with a steering lock) the lock came on one click past ignition off. I've not come across one that locked by removing the key.

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Thu 10 Nov 2005 10:33

Emergency stop by passenger - Dynamic Dave

On my car that only happens if you remove the key.

Every car I've had (with a steering lock) the lock came

on one click past ignition off. I've not come across one

that locked by removing the key.

All the Vauxhall's I've ever owned, the steering only ever locked once the key had been removed.

In fact, out of all the cars I've ever driven, I cannot recall one of them that the steering locked until the key was removed from the ignition.

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Thu 10 Nov 2005 12:00

Emergency stop by passenger - BazzaBear {P}

All the Vauxhall's I've ever owned, the steering only ever locked

once the key had been removed.

The only Vauxhall I ever owned (mkII Astravan) locked with the keys still in. I know because, while it was sitting at my parents waiting for me to come home from Uni and perform an engine translant, my mother very kindly pushed it over a 6ft cliff at the bottom of their drive for me, due to the steering locking.

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Thu 10 Nov 2005 11:20

Emergency stop by passenger - Roberson

In an auto, it would probably be best to make sure that their foot has been removed from the accelerator (which would be the most difficult part I reckon) so you are decelerating. Then apply the handbrake, slowly, so that the wheels don't lock. Lastly, depending on your gearbox, select the 'locked' gears like 3, 2 or 1 (depending upon speed) as soon as possible, so you will then have some degree of engine braking.

All of this should be combined with any required steering. Biggest tip of all, aim for something soft! (Like a hedge and not a car)

BTW: My Polo only locks the steering when the key is removed from the lock too. In fact, I believe a lot of 80's and early 90s VWs had this feature.

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Thu 10 Nov 2005 11:25

Emergency stop by passenger - Falkirk Bairn

Steer, put the car into neutral and pull on the handbrake whilst steering.

Make sure you do not drive a Mercedes (or some others)with the stupid foot applied hadbrake. I bought one years ago and my wife drove 3 miles and that was it she never drove it again as it was "tricky" in hill starts never mind emergency situations.

2/3 years back a Mercedes E class rolled down a slipway whilst the driver was elsewhere. The passenger could not apply the hadbrake due tro it being applied with the foot and a young child in the back seat lost his/her life.

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Thu 10 Nov 2005 12:07

Emergency stop by passenger - Garethj

Don't think I can believe that people plan ahead for this!?

If the driver is that likely to pass out (without having time to brake), perhaps it's best not to drive in the first place?

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Thu 10 Nov 2005 13:16

Emergency stop by passenger - Rebecca {P}

It's worth thinking about where the usual passenger is a non-driver. It's not so much about the driver being likely to pass out, but any unforseen (admittedly unlikely) situation. Chokes on a sweet? Heart attack? Reaction to insect sting? These things happen.

Reminds me of a recurring dream I used to have as child dfrom quite an early age - being in the back of the car and something happening to the driver (Mum or dad) and not having a clue what to do. Funny how the dream stopped after a few driving lessons!

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Thu 10 Nov 2005 13:21

Emergency stop by passenger - ukbeefy

This sounds overly dramatic...Is it the sort of thing that troubles you? Do you go around your house wondering what the best escape route would be if there was a freak tornado or something....

I can hardly think that short of having a massive coronary that you would not be able to pull in to the side of the road as the driver. If you did have a coronary then you are in the lap of the gods anyhow....

Try worrying about less dramatic things or stop watching sensationalist reinactment/"police camera action" telly....

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Thu 10 Nov 2005 22:02

Emergency stop by passenger - Altea Ego

Listen, if you have a heart attack and die at the wheel, do you really care about what happens afterwards?

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Thu 10 Nov 2005 22:21

Emergency stop by passenger - AlastairW

Not personally, but I imagine the other people in the car might be interested in what happens next.

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 07:27

Emergency stop by passenger - L'escargot

I think the best my non-driving and never-driven partner would be able to manage would be to yank on the handbrake. I've never thought about it before, but I suppose I ought to show her how to do it.
--
L\'escargot.

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 08:58

Emergency stop by passenger - No FM2R

I want to die in my sleep like my Grandpa, not screaming like his passengers.

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 21:16

Emergency stop by passenger - drbe

Steer, put the car into neutral and pull on the handbrake

whilst steering.

Make sure you do not drive a Mercedes (or some others)with

the stupid foot applied hadbrake. I bought one years ago

and my wife drove 3 miles and that was it she

never drove it again as it was "tricky" in hill starts

never mind emergency situations.

2/3 years back a Mercedes E class rolled down a slipway

whilst the driver was elsewhere. The passenger could not apply

the hadbrake due tro it being applied with the foot and

a young child in the back seat lost his/her life.

>>

Actually the story was a bit more complicated than that. I t ocurred not far from where I live.

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 08:05

Emergency stop by passenger - ajit

If in a situation like that, reach out and brace the drive against his seat by gripping the B pillar. Gain control of the steering and try and steer the car out of danger and/or put your leg over to gain control of the pedals. Easier said than done but this works in LHD auto matic cars

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 08:15

Emergency stop by passenger - sierraman

Buy an ex driving instruction car;)

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 11:09

Emergency stop by passenger - trancer

Years ago my Dad came home from a scrappy with a Viva handbrake lever that had been torn out the floorpan, bolts and shreds of metal still attached. He claims that the driver's wife paniced when he lost control and that she yanked on the handbrake so hard that it completely ripped it out of the floor.

No clue whether that was a wind up or not, and I can't imagine why it would have been ripped out like that. I did believe it to be true as at the time as The Hulk TV series was on and the basis of that show was superhuman strength in times of stress/trauma etc. 8-)

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 11:10

Emergency stop by passenger - Altea Ego

It was a viva. The floor was rusty.

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 11:13

Emergency stop by passenger - trancer

It was a Viva that spent its life (pre-accident, of course)on a warm, tropical, Carribean island. Not to say that they won't rust in the absence of salty roads and perpetual rain, but the shards of metal looked to be corrosion free.

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 11:18

Emergency stop by passenger - islandman

Interesting subject this which must happen regulary enough for it to be a safety issue. With all the safety features now installed on cars how about an emgergency engine cut out button placed centrally on dash. This would perhaps need to be protected against accidental operation by say a plastic cover/bubble. As well as cutting the power it could also apply the brakes to bring the car to a safe stop as soon as possible.

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 11:29

Emergency stop by passenger - Altea Ego

"Interesting subject this"

agreed

"which must happen regulary enough for it to be a safety issue"

err no. I dont see reams of news reports about this or see it mentioned in accident statistics. In my view its a purely a "what if" thing.

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 11:45

Emergency stop by passenger - islandman

"Interesting subject this"

agreed

"which must happen regulary enough for it to be a safety

issue"

err no. I dont see reams of news reports about this

or see it mentioned in accident statistics. In my view its

a purely a "what if" thing.

Acknowledged - but how do you know. I think about 10 deaths occur on UK roads every day (I may be wrong on this) which is 3650 deaths a year. Most of these only get reported in the local papers and local radio. Only national if its a serious motorway pile up or a multiple death accident.
To be honest, I've not thought of this before and most likely won't in the future but I would think some device centrally placed to cut the power easily might be worthwhile. I know you can remove the key but with most of these postioned on the right hand side of the steering column.

Just a thought in this safety concious world in which we live!!

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 17:00

Emergency stop by passenger - trancer

"I know you can remove the key but with most of these postioned on the right hand side of the steering column."

Just buy a Saab and problem solved.

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 11:53

Emergency stop by passenger - mare

Interesting subject this which must happen regulary enough for it to

be a safety issue. With all the safety features now installed

on cars how about an emgergency engine cut out button placed

centrally on dash. This would perhaps need to be protected against

accidental operation by say a plastic cover/bubble. As well as cutting

the power it could also apply the brakes to bring the

car to a safe stop as soon as possible.

Picture the scene: driver and passenger arguing

"Stop the car now!"
"Don't be silly"
"Alright, i will"
Screech of brakes, car comes to a standstill, and not necessarily anywhere safe!

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 17:08

Emergency stop by passenger - David Horn

Since my dog when bored can change radio station quite adeptly with her feet, I shudder to think what would happen if she pushed a big "STOP CAR NOW" button on the dash...

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Fri 11 Nov 2005 17:27

Emergency stop by passenger - sierraman

'Years ago my Dad came home from a scrappy with a Viva handbrake lever that had been torn out the floorpan,'

A friend of mine broke the lock on rachet pulling on the handbrake of a van he thought was rolling.As passenger he used his right hand so,being right handed,applied much more force than usual.Old minis were prone to the floor cracking around the handbrake mount.

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Mon 28 Nov 2005 00:01

Emergency stop by passenger - henry k

>>Don't think I can believe that people plan ahead for this!?
>>
If the driver is that likely to pass out (without having time to brake), perhaps it's best not to drive in the first place
>>
Anyone of any age can have become unwell.
Hence it IS worth thinking about the situation.
Two current high profile cases. 1.Driver veered across the road and his wife was injured and 2.Richard Burns

>>This sounds overly dramatic...Is it the sort of thing that troubles you?

Do you go around your house wondering what the best escape route would be if there was a freak tornado or something....

No.

>>I can hardly think that short of having a massive coronary that you would not be able to pull in to the side of the road as the driver.
>>
Exactly what appears to have happened as I indicated above.
>>
Try worrying about less dramatic things or stop watching sensationalist reinactment/"police camera action" telly....
>>
I have been too close to too many real events but I still do not worry.
Bombs gone off in UK, no militaty buildings I worked in.
Close enough calls with several airliner crashes.
>>
>>I think the best my non-driving and never-driven partner would be able to manage would be to yank on the handbrake.

I've never thought about it before, but I suppose I ought to show her how to do it.

>>
Beware!!
Car being driven on a non sealed road when it started to fishtail mainly due to a flat tyre. Passenger, with the best of intentions, "yanked" on the handbrake. Car then spun totally off the road into the bushes.

So possible sequence of actions by a passenger.
1. Steer
2. Use the gears and handbrake to slow things
3. Get foot off the gas if possible
4. Indicators / hazard flashers if any hands left.

Oh and an added possible action
1.A? Switch off cruise control
When cruise control is in opperation in my Mondeo, unsurprisingly, applying the handbrake does not dis-enguage it.
At least the off button is on the passenger side of the steering wheel.

At least a few more have considered what action to take.
Thankfully none has experienced the situation.

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Thu 23 Jan 2025 15:33

Emergency stop by passenger - David46

Having read the previous threads about emergency stop by a passenger. I have a Volvo XC60 Automatic which has an electric brake switch on the RHS of the driver.

This would be impossible for a passenger to access in the event of an emergency stop.

However would it be possible to add or move a brake switch onto the centre console. This would be accessible by both driver and passenger.

The steering wheel, Auto Box and a brake would be accessible all necessary in an emergency

Would this contravene any law?

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Thu 23 Jan 2025 17:24

Emergency stop by passenger - leaseman

I cannot give you a definite answer, but if it isn't illegal, it would certainly be classed as unwise and extremely foolish and dangerous and, in my opinion, should be.

This is a 20 year old thread, and hasn't emerged in that time! Are you speaking from experience or...?

Edited by leaseman on 23/01/2025 at 17:27

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Thu 23 Jan 2025 18:11

Emergency stop by passenger - badbusdriver

I cannot give you a definite answer, but if it isn't illegal, it would certainly be classed as unwise and extremely foolish and dangerous and, in my opinion, should be.

This is a 20 year old thread, and hasn't emerged in that time! Are you speaking from experience or...?

I'd also suggest that if the issue is of such a concern, a far better and more sensible option would be to change the car in favour of one which already has the EPB in the centre!

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Thu 23 Jan 2025 22:39

Emergency stop by passenger - movilogo

This thread wins award for resurrecting longest sleeping thread from grave. ??

Modern cars may stop automatically as most now have AEB.

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Fri 24 Jan 2025 09:00

Emergency stop by passenger - SLO76

If a driver is seriously concerned about their ability to stay conscious enough to control their car then it’s time to ask whether they’re fit to drive. Anyone worried that they might pass out instantly and be unable to pull their car over to the side of the road shouldn’t be driving. Remember to consequences of this, remember the bin truck disaster in Glasgow many years ago when an unfit driver killed and injured several pedestrians when he passed out.

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Fri 24 Jan 2025 10:08

Emergency stop by passenger - RT

If a driver is seriously concerned about their ability to stay conscious enough to control their car then it’s time to ask whether they’re fit to drive. Anyone worried that they might pass out instantly and be unable to pull their car over to the side of the road shouldn’t be driving. Remember to consequences of this, remember the bin truck disaster in Glasgow many years ago when an unfit driver killed and injured several pedestrians when he passed out.

Sorry SLO but that's not how the human body works! The concept that anyone gets advance notice of passing out or collapsing is just false - that applies to apparently healthy people as well as those with diagnosed problems.

The Glasgow bin lorry incident relates to a driver who ignored doctors advice not to drive.

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Sat 25 Jan 2025 12:52

Emergency stop by passenger - SLO76

If a driver is seriously concerned about their ability to stay conscious enough to control their car then it’s time to ask whether they’re fit to drive. Anyone worried that they might pass out instantly and be unable to pull their car over to the side of the road shouldn’t be driving. Remember to consequences of this, remember the bin truck disaster in Glasgow many years ago when an unfit driver killed and injured several pedestrians when he passed out.

Sorry SLO but that's not how the human body works! The concept that anyone gets advance notice of passing out or collapsing is just false - that applies to apparently healthy people as well as those with diagnosed problems.

The Glasgow bin lorry incident relates to a driver who ignored doctors advice not to drive.

Fair enough, but if this question was being asked by anyone to their employer or GP I’m sure they’d be deeply concerned about their fitness to drive.

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Sun 26 Jan 2025 11:06

Emergency stop by passenger - Simoncelli58

I cant remember the last car I had with a manual handbrake!

My present cars electric handbrake button, is down by my right knee (right hand drive Merc).

No chance of a passenger doing anything in this scenario.

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Sun 26 Jan 2025 11:52

Emergency stop by passenger - RT

Knock the gearlever into neutral - won't stop you quickly but does take the power off

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Sun 26 Jan 2025 15:06

Emergency stop by passenger - Andrew-T

Knock the gearlever into neutral - won't stop you quickly but does take the power off

That may mean twiddling a knob in some cars ?

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Sun 26 Jan 2025 12:11

Emergency stop by passenger - mcb100

In a rather odd turn of events, I ended up in Florida (nearly 20 years ago now) doing high performance driver training for US Navy SEALS.
The idea was that they’d be able to commandeer a random vehicle and get the best out of it.
Anyway, one of the activities was a ‘man down’ procedure, where your driver was incapacitated.
Given that we were in Ford Crown Victoria, access to the pedals was easy from the passenger side.
You reached across the unconscious driver’s chest and grabbed the seatbelt by the B pillar and kept him out of the way whilst reaching the pedals with your right foot, and continuing to make your escape by steering with your left hand.
One of the more enthusiastic ‘casualties’ did get bruised shins from having his feet kicked away from the pedals.

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Sun 26 Jan 2025 16:37

Emergency stop by passenger - Big John

I suppose since the 20 years since the original thread was posted things have changed. On my car based on the Toyota hybrid running gear the electric parking brake button is in centre console and if you pull and hold the brake button it will perform an emergency stop. I'll make sure Mrs BJ is aware of this!

Not sure if other makes of cars with electronic parking brakes have this - Presumably some do?

Edited by Big John on 26/01/2025 at 16:41

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Mon 27 Jan 2025 08:54

Emergency stop by passenger - Catfood

Citroen C3 had a built in feature to do this......

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13446522

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Mon 27 Jan 2025 09:15

Emergency stop by passenger - Big John

Citroen C3 had a built in feature to do this......

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13446522

That reminds me, years ago my mate had an Audi Copue 2.2 and one time one a journey with him I operated the imaginary brake pedal on the passenger side as he was a bit late stopping - the slight problem was because I was tall I inadvertently stopped the car abruptly as the real brake pedal operated on a shaft between right hand side to left hand side foot wells with the brake servo being mounted on the left. My long legs / big feet had operated the brakes directly. Nice car though..

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Mon 27 Jan 2025 09:18

Emergency stop by passenger - bathtub tom

Daughter had a Skoda Estelle. The throttle was a cross shaft to the passenger side. A passenger could apply sufficient pressure to hold the throttle open.

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Mon 27 Jan 2025 10:37

Emergency stop by passenger - madf

BMW I3 electric handbrake is on armrest in centre. When I took Mrs madf out , I pointed it out to her "in case I has a stroke". She made some pithy retort.........

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Mon 27 Jan 2025 15:41

Emergency stop by passenger - corax

That reminds me, years ago my mate had an Audi Copue 2.2 and one time one a journey with him I operated the imaginary brake pedal on the passenger side as he was a bit late stopping - the slight problem was because I was tall I inadvertently stopped the car abruptly as the real brake pedal operated on a shaft between right hand side to left hand side foot wells with the brake servo being mounted on the left. My long legs / big feet had operated the brakes directly. Nice car though..

Was that a very early one, because I don't remember my 90 Quattro being like that (exactly the same as coupe except for saloon rather then hatchback shape). Pretty sure the servo was on the right.

Strange that the coupes still had a boot lid rather than a hatch opening, which would have made them a lot more practical.

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Mon 27 Jan 2025 18:19

Emergency stop by passenger - Big John

That reminds me, years ago my mate had an Audi Copue 2.2 and one time one a journey with him I operated the imaginary brake pedal on the passenger side as he was a bit late stopping - the slight problem was because I was tall I inadvertently stopped the car abruptly as the real brake pedal operated on a shaft between right hand side to left hand side foot wells with the brake servo being mounted on the left. My long legs / big feet had operated the brakes directly. Nice car though..

Was that a very early one, because I don't remember my 90 Quattro being like that (exactly the same as coupe except for saloon rather then hatchback shape). Pretty sure the servo was on the right.

Strange that the coupes still had a boot lid rather than a hatch opening, which would have made them a lot more practical.

I think it was a B reg so circa 1985 - it's a long time ago so can't remember details. I remember doing a head gasket on it for my mate circa 1992/93 and the car was already pretty cream crackered and rust was already an issue. Saying that if I found a good one I'd have one as a classic toy tomorrow!

Edited by Big John on 27/01/2025 at 19:00

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