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Yeah, diesel is a better long term 'investment' over the equivalent petrol model, seems to be the particular case with VW's.
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But they cost more to buy and so the depreciation is offset by quite a bit.
Do they cost more to service and do they require shorter intervals between servicing than petrol cars?
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I suppose this is all relative to one's disposable income, and a matter of priorities too.
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Some, perhaps the majority, of diesels cost more to buy, but not all. Shouldn't cost more to service and as to intervals, diesels are nowadays on identical or longer service intervals than petrol.
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"Fuel economy is only a genuine issue if you do above average miles"
There is a one word reply I could use but the swear filter etc.
If you drive a car which is immaculate but because of its age is worthless - a sub £1,000 "banger" - the only running costs are: MOT/Tax/Insurance/maintenance.. and fuel.
SWBO has a 13 year old car. It is immaculate and DIY'd Value £500 at most. Her bill for MOT/Tax /Insurance/MOT and DIY is..quick sum £500 tops a year.
Fuel bill? £550.
If it was not a diesel fuel bill would double - average journey length is 1.5 miles.
So I'm sorry but the above sweeping generalisation is not true..
Depreciation? What is that?
Of course if you buy a £30k peugeot or a £40k citroen, or a £150K Bentley.. but then money does not matter as you are effectivley tearing up pound notes when you sign on the line.
madf
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how many miles does she do Madf and what car is it?
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I suppose it also depends upon how you use the car. Again, my own personal situation, but I tend to use the car for longer trips only. Up to 5 miles, then I will walk, cycle or use public transport.
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What Car? quote 41.9 p/mile for both a 2 litre (petrol) Ghia Focus and a similar spec 2 litre Ghia TDCi over 3 years and 36000 miles. Similar 0-60 time and similar top speed. On this basis I couldn't see any reason for me to buy a noisy smelly diesel when I could have a quiet petrol.
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L\'escargot.
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I have a 320d which is not noisy inside, doesn't smell and gives me 20 more to the gallon than my old 325 it replaces.
Admittedly I wouldn't buy a convertible diesel and would have a petrol if I didn't do 45k a year.
For me it is a no brainer.
I can't quite remember the cut off, but for most cars the change over for a diesel car being cheaper to run comes in at about 15 - 18k miles a year. Under this purchase price comes into it, but over this the saving in petrol cost makes it worth while.
Mind you , if I didn't have to buy my own fuel it might be something like an 02 M3 on the drive as they seem to have dropped price in a big way in the last 6 months.
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0 to 60 might be the same but thats where it ends.petrol gets hammered by diesel in every other way thats the reason for a smelly diesel.
everyday driving not santa pod grid starts.
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<< petrol gets hammered by diesel in every other way ....
Such as?
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L\'escargot.
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What Car? quote 41.9 p/mile for both a 2 litre (petrol) Ghia Focus and a similar spec 2 litre Ghia TDCi over 3 years and 36000 miles. Similar 0-60 time and similar top speed. On this basis I couldn't see any reason for me to buy a noisy smelly diesel when I could have a quiet petrol.
And if the 0-60 time is similar then it's a fair bet that the 30-60 time will be similar too. After all, you have to pass through 30 to get to 60. To my way of thinking this casts serious doubts on the claims that a diesel has better mid-range acceleration than a petrol.
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L\'escargot.
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And if the 0-60 time is similar then it's a fair bet that the 30-60 time will be similar too. After all, you have to pass through 30 to get to 60. To my way of thinking this casts serious doubts on the claims that a diesel has better mid-range acceleration than a petrol.
Have you driven a diesel? The 0-20 time is slower than a petrol, mid gear acceleration beats the petrol, but more gear changes are needed to get to 60, few diesels will do 60 in 2nd, whereas many petrol cars will. Hence a diesel has faster 20/30 to 60 time.
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I worry about it!
I do about 22,500 miles a year in a Xantia 1.9 TD. At an average 40 MPG, this costs me about £2400 at current price of 94ppl. I could have bought a 1.8 Xantia (nearest equivalent engine output), which would do about 30mpg, costing me about £3100 per year, at current price of 91ppl. The TD cost about £500 more than a petrol one, so I have more than saved the differential in the cost in less than a year - and the TD is still worth considerably more than the petrol car would be. Over 3 years and and over 60,000 miles I have saved nearly £2000 (diesel was only 75ppl a while ago, is that just my mind playing tricks on me??) - nearly the cost of the 2 Xantia TDs I have bought.
I could buy a Xantia HDi 110, which would do about 50 mpg. This would reduce the fuel bill to around £1900 pa, saving nearly £500. However, as the cost to change up to an HDi is still hovering about £2000, it's a long way off being 'financially viable'. Still, I might buy one anyway to reduce my contributions to HMG. Oh, and despite using 25% less fuel, it's faster. Nice.
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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The alternative petrol model to a VAG 2.0TDi in terms of everyday performance is the 3.2 V6 petrol. This costs about 25% more than the TDi, uses twice as much fuel, needs servicing more often at a higher cost, costs more in road tax, has a higher insurance group and depreciates rapidly.
In my case (20,000 miles this year) the petrol equivalent was a no brainer.
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But you could argue that while modern commonrail diesels return supberb fuel economy, when they go wrong they go wrong in a big way, thereby negating any savings due to fuel efficiency.
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It might be worth pointing out that many (myself included) bought diesels for a number of other reasons too. The effortless mid-range overtaking performance and relaxed low-rev motorway cruising played their part too. The fuel economy was a worthwhile bonus.
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SWMO's car is a 1993 Peugeot 106 1.4Diesel. Approx 55mpg . Done 45k miles. 5 door XRD.
0-60 is v slow about 18 secs but irrelevant for a town car..(It has been to Scotland .. flat out all the way.)
Apart from consumables and 1 driveshaft, it's mechanically as new.
If we drove a petrol car the way it has been, the engine would have died due to petrol washing the oil from the bores at statup.. and in practically all running:-) It burns negligible oil and starts first time.
Because it's a low tech diesel, DIY is very simple.
madf
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I don't think one person has mentioned environmental reasons.
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I was just about to....
I don't know the relative proportions of petrol and diesel fuel that can be obtained from a barrel of crude but if vehicles are more economical, all other things being equal, the finite oil reserves will last that bit longer.
Biodiesel, though it may never be available in the quantities needed to replace mineral diesel, will help to eke out its reserves for that much longer.
My diesel Passat has done 156,000 miles and still runs very well except when the ECU has the occasional wobble. Exhaust systems tend to last considerably longer on diesels.
I don't think I'd buy another petrol car. I particularly like the mid-range torque. OK, a diesel is more rattly and vibrates a bit more, but you don't hear the sound of the exhaust so much!
Cheers, SS
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People are prepared to spend extra on their cars - whether going for the diesel option or forking out a few hundred quid for alloy wheels which may look good but they're of marginal benefit on an ordinary road car.
Cheers, SS
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It's a largely pshyscological thing.
I had a Xantia 1.9TD. It did 35mpg around town. This was good. It meant I filled up less often and generally felt chuffed.
Now I have a 2.0 16v Mondeo. It does..... less than that around town. I now fill up more and think 'damn, when I had a diesel...'
However when you actually add up the saving it was virtually nothing, few hundred quid a year at most? Thats irrelevent compared to other costs, hell I spent £320 on a set of tyres.
Enough to make me think that, as a 2nd year Uni student, its time for the V6..
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Most families waste hundreds of pounds a year on gadgets they use a few times at most. Things like exercise equipment, or kitchen appliances that sounded good in the sale etc. or even clothes that are worn once. How many folks do you know who sign up to annual gym membership on 2nd January, go a few times, and then never utilise the rest of the membership? Some of the same people then put huge amounts of effort into reducing fuel bills. Go figure!
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Hi All,
I run a Vauxhall Astra 1.7dti for economy's sake. I seem to average about 50mpg. Recently I had a courtesy car on loan, an S reg Passat 1.8 petrol which did about 29mph as far as I could tell.
Why I'm writing is that I found the Passat much nicer to drive than the Astra. The petrol power band meant that I could trickle along at 35mph in fifth and pull away easily without changing gear. On my local twisty roads this was a great boon as I could often go for 20 miles or so without having to change gear.
I did notice the lack of acceleration in the mid ranges but that means little to a steady type of driver like me. If petrol engines were as economical as diesels, there's no doubt about what I'd drive.
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