Budget?

£20k maximum.

I have a Skoda Karoq (1.5 petrol DSG) that I use for motorway commuting. It does 40-45mpg and is very quiet and comfortable. If you're considering a Kodiaq, a Karoq is a smaller, cheaper and more.efficient option. I'm sure the diesel is just as good.

Is there a particular reason you want an SUV? You will find more fuel efficiency with a hatchback or estate.

"The Mazda CX5 2.0 skyactiv petrol is a great car too. They’ll do 40mpg on a run easy enough and there’s no diesel related reliability concerns."

Gentle driving can easily result in 45 mpg on a long trip, especially in warm weather. The other point that may interest the OP is ride quality on long journeys. SWMBO used to suffer travel sickness in previous cars (for example, the otherwise excellent Ford Focus we had), but has none in the CX-5.

My Philosophy with cars is to keep it simple. Diesels are old hat now and will be difficult to sell on in a few years time. They are also more complicated than a petrol. Small turbo petrol is the way to go rather than as you say all the hybrid stuff and will give you decent MPG. With any SUV you are going to get lower MPG than a traditional hatch or saloon. Have you considered an auto for all the miles?. The VW Tigwan Skoda as recommended or even an Audi Q3 or 5. all can be had with a 1.5 and basically the same car. The reality with an SUV is that you will get less MPG when not cruising

Edited by sammy1 on 24/06/2023 at 23:12

My Volvo V70D 2008 has covered 180k with no diesel related problems, my 2016 220 Merc E class with 50k again no problems diesel wise. I've had a few diesels and little problem with the engines so why all this diesel are problems stuff? I can only quote my experience with them.

If the GOV were at all serious about climate change they would not let these bricks of SUVs on the road, As to the latest Toyota RAV SUV it is one of the biggest and ugliest SUVs on the road

However, it did do well on a nearby A-road at 60mph, getting 70mpg with assistance from the battery. I don't know how long this would last or what it would drop too without the battery assistance.

As I said earlier, the battery in a self charge hybrid charges and discharges quickly, so it is not a case of the battery running out and you being left solely on ICE, it does that all the time, including in town.

There are a few sources from the US which talk about the amazing 30mpg on the highway, which is of course not very good.

First, US MPG is not the same as UK MPG, 30 MPG US equals around 36MPG to us. And while that still might not sound too great, you need to know what speed was involved here. If that was at 60mph it would be pretty poor going, but at 75-80, that doesn't sound too bad for a fairly large SUV.

I've noted that the hybrid drivetrains are heavy, and might (?) in some cases have worse efficiency than petrol-only models because of this. Also both the previous gen cars from Toyota and Honda are pretty old designs, so I'd like to understand what that means for the hybrid drivetrains - and the batteries since batteries wear.

Yes and no. If you look at the Yaris hybrid, it is actually lighter than a solely ICE Fiesta auto. The RAV4?, yes, it is heavy car, but it is also a big car. Not sure without comparing something specific that it is much heavier than an ICE equivalent. But you need to bear in mind it has a bigger petrol engine than most direct competition at 2.5 rather than 1.5-2.0. Also, at motorway speeds, weight (within reason) has very little effect on MPG. Aerodynamics are a far bigger factor. Battery life is better on a self charge hybrid than plug in (PHEV) or full electric because the battery is being charged at the optimum rate by the car rather than (potentially) being plugged into a fast charger (which I believe is not that great for the life of a battery). Toyota have been making self charge hybrids since about 1997 now, and they are amongst the most reliable cars out there, they know what they are doing!.

One thing that has me a little confused is how the RAV4 and CR-V are so similar with such radically different engines. I expect the Toyota costs more to tax and insure because it's a bigger engine, but I've yet to check.

Not really that different, both use ICE plus EV?.

A lot of the cars I've looked at seem to be using CVT. Is that bad?

Not unless you drive flat out all the time (or are a motoring journalist), but if that is the case, hybrid is probably not for you anyway.

CVT isn't bad as long as you get along with it. Some people find the drone of it annoying, plenty of others don't notice. In terms.of reliability, it's better thought of than DCT (eg the VW DSG).

I wouldn't become too obsessed about the efficient or otherwise of hybrids over long distance. They're not like PHEVs with a whole lot of heavy kit to cart around because the batteries are pretty small and the engines pretty feeble. They're certainly at their best in town, but they're no worse than a 'normal' car on the open road.

I can give you some real life experience of the CR-V Hybrid. We've had ours on a PCP since July 2019, and when it expires next month we're planning to buy it because we're so pleased with it. We've currently covered 64,000km, which is around 40,000m.

I live in Austria, so it's essentially the same car that you get in the UK (apart from model designations). Ours is the top of the range with AWD, so it's carrying around a bit of dead weight! Most of our driving is on small B roads, some bigger B roads, and around town with the occasional motorway trip of c.60 miles. We've also made several trips to the UK, although COVID reduced those, with average speed (in Germany) of 130-140km/h. The brim to brim overall fuel consumption (I have a detailed spreadsheet) is 42mpg. Winter definitely hits the consumption, I've seen a low of 29mpg on a tank in winter but that was high speed motorway in Germany. Winter overall sees abut 37-39mpg from a tank, whereas the last fill-up was over 50mpg. I've seen a high of 54 from a tank a couple of times. I'd say that you could expect around high thirties to low forties with your usage pattern depending on how fast you drive on the motorway.

Engine noise can be an issue for some people, it follows a completely different pattern to a non-hybrid. It is often just a constant note round town, increasing rapidly when you put heavy demands on the traction battery, but it's something you get used to.

The CVT is an excellent transmission, and the whole power train is smooth and quiet in general. It's surprisingly quick off the mark, thanks to the instant torque of the traction engine, and with the sport mode enables quick and effortless overtaking.

The car itself is very roomy and comfortable, with wide opening doors. The area that it falls down in is the media interface, it's too complex and illogical. A test review in Germany said that the reviewer gave up trying to store a radio channel after 30 minutes! I find the satnav OK, but that's often the subject of criticism as well. The car does have Android Auto so it's not a big deal.

Lastly, comparative reviews always rate it better to drive than the RAV-4, and usually a better overall car. HJ rates it as one of the best SUVs, although things have probably moved on since he wrote that in 2019.

Hope this long list helps your decision!

I haven't yet determined much of substance about the 2018 RAV4. There are a few sources from the US which talk about the amazing 30mpg on the highway, which is of course not very good. Same goes for the CR-V hybrid. Are the UK models better?

I've noted that the hybrid drivetrains are heavy, and might (?) in some cases have worse efficiency than petrol-only models because of this. Also both the previous gen cars from Toyota and Honda are pretty old designs, so I'd like to understand what that means for the hybrid drivetrains - and the batteries since batteries wear.

I also tried the CX-5. That was nice drive and it has many fancy features including a HUD. It was petrol-only. The one I tried had a few electronic faults, including the radio and the motorised boot door.

One thing that has me a little confused is how the RAV4 and CR-V are so similar with such radically different engines. I expect the Toyota costs more to tax and insure because it's a bigger engine, but I've yet to check.

A lot of the cars I've looked at seem to be using CVT. Is that bad?

I will look closer at some of the other cars suggested this evening.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/toyota/rav4-2013

The US has only very recently been offered the RAV4 hybrid (petrol is a lot cheaper there) so if you are looking at US reviews ensure that you are comparing mechanically similar vehicles to what you would buy in the UK. Most of their reviews will be ICE with a TC auto.

The Toyota hybrid gearbox is actually a planetary gea***t rather than a conventional CVT - it is very, very reliable.

A 2018 Toyota can still be or be brought back into in manufacturer's warranty ( 10 year/100,000 miles, subject to dealer servicing). The drive battery warranty is 15 years (again subject to annual check to maintain warranty).