.... with a station adjacent the trains straddle the road so the stop start enables me to comply yet saving me from having to take any action.
Surely the action you might need to take is trivial and much the same as the stop/start takes - cutting engine and restarting ? :-)
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.... with a station adjacent the trains straddle the road so the stop start enables me to comply yet saving me from having to take any action.
Surely the action you might need to take is trivial and much the same as the stop/start takes - cutting engine and restarting ? :-)
Indeed, it is a strange way to sing the merits of the stop/start system when simply turning the key to switch the car off would achieve the same results (but without your brake lights blinding whoever is behind).
As for keyless entry and start, the criticisms seem to come solely from the 'bloke' perspective. They may well be imperfect, but to pan it as being useless and/or unnecessary suggests a complete inability to see a situation from the perspective of anyone else.
Also, in the case of the OP, in being so critical of the system, he seems to be glossing over the fact that he was the one who let his wife drive away with the remote unit in his pocket.
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My car - Tesla Model 3, uses my phone as a 'key'. Unlocks when I walk up to the car, and car is then 'on'. Input my 'Pin to Drive' (a la Citroen Saxo) and I'm good to go. When it comes to locking up, I put it in Park then get out and walk away, it locks automatically.
All very well and good, but when at work I have been known to get out of the works car and walk off, leaving it unlocked and engine still running.
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My car - Tesla Model 3, uses my phone as a 'key'. Unlocks when I walk up to the car, and car is then 'on'. Input my 'Pin to Drive' (a la Citroen Saxo) and I'm good to go. When it comes to locking up, I put it in Park then get out and walk away, it locks automatically.
All very well and good, but when at work I have been known to get out of the works car and walk off, leaving it unlocked and engine still running.
Don’t think that requires keyless gizmology, cos I did it with my NHS Metro. I was carrying a monitor at the time, back when keys were keys and monitors were CRTs. It wasn’t there when I went back. Was there the next day though.
Did smell of urine a bit, but hey, it was the NHS.
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<< ... back when keys were keys .. >>
If we think back far enough, the 'ignition keyhole' was in the dash. Then it was cleverly combined with the steering column to make cars harder to drive away, which was a good simple arrangement - one key locked the car and the steering, and started the engine (if you were lucky). There were occasional long-term problems if the lock mechanism gave up, but usually the system worked well. You could walk away leaving the key in the ignition, but usually didn't in case of theft.
Then someone thought of remote locking, and when all these functions were combined, the problems we are now discussing began.
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>All very well and good, but when at work I have been known to get out of the works car and walk off, leaving it unlocked and engine still running.
Do you set it doing circuits in the car park then?
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Sorry to go against the majority view on this thread.
I have had two Mazda 3s with keyless over 13 years. It works well and is very convenient. On a point made by the OP, the i-Stop functions OK without the key because it does not turn off the ignition. That is probably also true if you stall but not sure (I have never tried driving without the key).
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..
As for keyless entry and start, the criticisms seem to come solely from the 'bloke' perspective. They may well be imperfect, but to pan it as being useless and/or unnecessary suggests a complete inability to see a situation from the perspective of anyone else.
I think most of us are talking from a personal perspective, what we want or increasingly more to the point what we're prepared to accept and what we won't accept, we also realise that others like these things and good luck to them.
I personally don't want any of these, to me, pointless gimmicks, more to the point bearing in mind i've done the graft to enable my purchase its going to be what i personally want or if its for the good lady what she wants, and she wants none of the gimmicks either, she like i comes from an era when we were glad the car started at all and hasn't forgotten those days nor how to drive and control a car competently.
When someone else is buying the car for me then i have a choice of either accepting what is provided or not.
The other side of this coin is used vehicle desirability, some of us who prefer used cars for a variety of reasons (for me no car maker sells anything in this country i'd want to buy new except for Toyota's large 4x4s) won't entertain a used vehicle laden with to me/them pointless stuff that means more to go wrong, and just as with new cars its our choice.
@ Skidpan, enjoy your new cars, your money your choice just as it should be, for years i've been buying used what i want so your advice to buy a classic wasn't needed but thanks for endorsing its sensibility, we're all different, thankfully.
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I personally don't want any of these, to me, pointless gimmicks.
I had never even had remote locking until my first Mazda. My view had always been exactly the same as you but I reluctantly accepted the plethora of gadgets included by Mazda because I wanted the only model with that engine/gearbox.
To my amazement I quickly converted to a gadget lover. Don't know if its still there but I said so in a review on HJ. My current car did the same trick. I always believed electric handbrakes to be a disaster - now I would hate to be without one.
Give gadgets a go - you too may be amazed.
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<< I always believed electric handbrakes to be a disaster - now I would hate to be without one. Give gadgets a go - you too may be amazed. >>
Any new car is likely to have different habits which may need time to get used to. All fine until some gizmo fails - not only are you unlikely to do any useful DIY on it, the replacement cost in parts and labour may be painful.
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All fine until some gizmo fails - not only are you unlikely to do any useful DIY on it, the replacement cost in parts and labour may be painful.
Very true but if it really bothers you I suggest you limit yourself to cars from the 1970s or earlier. By comparison with my first cars anything you can buy new today is stuffed with parts for which DIY is impossible and the replacement cost in parts and labour is painful.
Edited by misar on 15/12/2022 at 14:55
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All fine until some gizmo fails - not only are you unlikely to do any useful DIY on it, the replacement cost in parts and labour may be painful.
Very true but if it really bothers you I suggest you limit yourself to cars from the 1970s or earlier.
I think you may be overstating your point, Misar. I would put the cut-off date about the turn of the century. My 1994 Pug 306 has recently found a new home, but I was still happy to DIY various things on that. The workhorse is from 2008, and I gave up doing anything to that some time ago, mainly from my own advancing years. My local difficulty is that when I took it to a nearby place for MoT and basic servicing, the shop manager didn't bother to read the worksheet I had given him, and chose to do things differently. Needless to say I won't be darkening his door again.
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Cars have been getting steadily more complicated for more than a hundred years so it all depends on where you set your benchmark. Mine was a Mk 2 Cortina bought new but in those days my Dad thought it was complicated against a 1930s Austin.
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I think you may be overstating your point, Misar. I would put the cut-off date about the turn of the century. My 1994 Pug 306 has recently found a new home, but I was still happy to DIY various things on that. The workhorse is from 2008, and I gave up doing anything to that some time ago, mainly from my own advancing years. My local difficulty is that when I took it to a nearby place for MoT and basic servicing, the shop manager didn't bother to read the worksheet I had given him, and chose to do things differently. Needless to say I won't be darkening his door again.
I agree about the timeline Andrew T, however
Toyota and Subaru are conservative enough that most models up to around 2008/9 are still quite enjoyable to work on with many parts designed to be fixed, later still for large Toyota 4x4's...i've just changed a couple of the switch illumination bulbs on the 2008 Forester, two bulbs in each switch, one for illumination the other lights up when the switch is on, the switches themselves are a delight, simple to dismantle solid chunky things clipped in a holder held on by easy access Japen spec cross head screws.
Our Landcruiser is 2005 regd, still the same basic design made now (70 series from the 80's still being made but not sold here, little changed apart from engines which have got bigger), the 3 litre engine in mine was also in my first Landcruiser which was made in '93 albeit with mechanical injection, same engine up to 2013 registration almost identical chassis transmission etc to mine, but Toyota Highlander in the USA slide underneath you'd struggle to tell the difference from mine, all old school components designed to be worked on, why scrap perfectly good componets proven for millions of miles only to replace with unproven parts that can't be repaired...this green lark is upside down, old stuff should be fixed and run until it falls apart.
I'm a big fan of ''if it aint broke don't fix it'' long proven designs.
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.... with a station adjacent the trains straddle the road so the stop start enables me to comply yet saving me from having to take any action.
Surely the action you might need to take is trivial and much the same as the stop/start takes - cutting engine and restarting ? :-)
When the stop/start kicks in the heater/air con stays on as does the sat nav display/radio. If I turn the key to turn the car off then everything goes off...inclduing the headlights and tail lights on a night so the same/yet not the same.
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.... with a station adjacent the trains straddle the road so the stop start enables me to comply yet saving me from having to take any action.
Surely the action you might need to take is trivial and much the same as the stop/start takes - cutting engine and restarting ? :-)
When the stop/start kicks in the heater/air con stays on as does the sat nav display/radio. If I turn the key to turn the car off then everything goes off...inclduing the headlights and tail lights on a night so the same/yet not the same.
Our Suzuki Ignis does have keyless start but does not have stop/start. If the engine is running and I press the button to stop it, what you describe will happen. But if I press the button again, the lights, climate, radio etc, will all come back on. Same thing happened with our previous car, a Jazz (which did have stop start).
The 2010 Caddy I use for my work will also do pretty much the same but via the key because there are two 'on' positions.
So unless your car's ignition works in a different way(?), I don't see it as being a problem.
By contrast, for someone stopped behind a car with the brake lights on for what, according to Smileyman's particular example re the level crossing, could be quite a while, that would be intensely irritating, particularly if it happens to be dark.
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I think I buck the trend, whilst waiting at traffic lights I tend to tire from pressing the brake pedal and go back to using the hand brake and resting my right foot ... if at night I might even switch off my headlights leaving just the front / rear side (parking) lights illuminated.
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.... with a station adjacent the trains straddle the road so the stop start enables me to comply yet saving me from having to take any action.
Surely the action you might need to take is trivial and much the same as the stop/start takes - cutting engine and restarting ? :-)
When the stop/start kicks in the heater/air con stays on as does the sat nav display/radio. If I turn the key to turn the car off then everything goes off...inclduing the headlights and tail lights on a night so the same/yet not the same.
Our Suzuki Ignis does have keyless start but does not have stop/start. If the engine is running and I press the button to stop it, what you describe will happen. But if I press the button again, the lights, climate, radio etc, will all come back on. Same thing happened with our previous car, a Jazz (which did have stop start).
The 2010 Caddy I use for my work will also do pretty much the same but via the key because there are two 'on' positions.
So unless your car's ignition works in a different way(?), I don't see it as being a problem.
By contrast, for someone stopped behind a car with the brake lights on for what, according to Smileyman's particular example re the level crossing, could be quite a while, that would be intensely irritating, particularly if it happens to be dark.
I'm not sure why I'd want all my lights to go out at a level crossing for example - does not seem like a good/safe thing to do. And I like the fact that the heating/air con and radio and sat nav stay on even with the engine off and no need to do it manually at each stop.
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.... with a station adjacent the trains straddle the road so the stop start enables me to comply yet saving me from having to take any action.
Surely the action you might need to take is trivial and much the same as the stop/start takes - cutting engine and restarting ? :-)
When the stop/start kicks in the heater/air con stays on as does the sat nav display/radio. If I turn the key to turn the car off then everything goes off...inclduing the headlights and tail lights on a night so the same/yet not the same.
Our Suzuki Ignis does have keyless start but does not have stop/start. If the engine is running and I press the button to stop it, what you describe will happen. But if I press the button again, the lights, climate, radio etc, will all come back on. Same thing happened with our previous car, a Jazz (which did have stop start).
The 2010 Caddy I use for my work will also do pretty much the same but via the key because there are two 'on' positions.
So unless your car's ignition works in a different way(?), I don't see it as being a problem.
By contrast, for someone stopped behind a car with the brake lights on for what, according to Smileyman's particular example re the level crossing, could be quite a while, that would be intensely irritating, particularly if it happens to be dark.
I'm not sure why I'd want all my lights to go out at a level crossing for example - does not seem like a good/safe thing to do. And I like the fact that the heating/air con and radio and sat nav stay on even with the engine off and no need to do it manually at each stop.
I guess it depends on how considerate to others you are. Personally I'd have no problem managing without my headlights (because the side lights would stay on unless you turned them off at the switch), radio, air-con, etc for about a second rather than having my brake lights dazzle whoever was behind me.
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I guess it depends on how considerate to others you are. Personally I'd have no problem managing without my headlights (because the side lights would stay on unless you turned them off at the switch), radio, air-con, etc for about a second rather than having my brake lights dazzle whoever was behind me.
Why would my brake lights be on if I'm stopped at a level crossing/traffic lights?
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I guess it depends on how considerate to others you are. Personally I'd have no problem managing without my headlights (because the side lights would stay on unless you turned them off at the switch), radio, air-con, etc for about a second rather than having my brake lights dazzle whoever was behind me.
Why would my brake lights be on if I'm stopped at a level crossing/traffic lights?
Now I'm confused!. I had assumed you'd been following this part of the thread from it's start, but maybe not?.
Smileyman said:
Stop/Start however I like, it reduces fuel usage and that's not a bad thing. At the level crossing A28 at Sturry near Canterbury there are signs telling drivers to switch off their engines whilst waiting for trains to pass, the delays are long and frequent and with a station adjacent the trains straddle the road so the stop start enables me to comply yet saving me from having to take any action.
(AFAIK) All stop start systems only activate when the car is stationary and your foot is on the brake pedal, which is obviously going to activate the brake lights.
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Must admit, this had confused me also. My Mazda6 stop start works perfectly well with the hand brake applied, no need at all to press the brake pedal once stopped. Maybe other cars work differently but I can’t imagine why the stop start shouldn’t work when parked at a set of lights with the handbrake on, as per best practice.
On a more related note to the original post, the notification screen in my Mazda instrument cluster lights up in red with a very clear message that the key is missing, even the most inobservant driver should notice before getting too far down the road. I think the Mazda2 does have a different cluster however, but according to the manual, it should still beep and throw up a warning light.
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My Megane stop/starts when it’s stationary and in neutral. No need for either foot or handbrake to be applied.
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Ah, well my own personal experience of stop start was the Jazz, and that only worked when the car was held on the footbrake. But from reading comments from various posters on the forum over the years saying the same, I had assumed that was just how they worked in general.
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Quite a few misunderstandings in this thread, at least wrt Mazda.
Stop/start would not comply with a request to turn off the engine at a level crossing unless for a very short wait. The system periodically restarts while waiting, interval depending on use of a/c, heater, radio, lights, etc.
No need to press footbrake for stop/start to operate.
In fact on models with an electric parking brake it applies automatically when car stops which is why you see so many cars with brake lights on at the lights. But applying the "hand" brake turns off the brake lights. Before anyone points out a drawback, the brake still releases automatically when you drive off.
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I must confess that when my Mk1 Lada spontaneously developed stop-start functionality I left it in place for quite a while, because fuel saving.
(It would cut out on the overrun when deceleration forces shifted the carbon core in the OEM Soviet ignition leads, but would re-start OK at rest)
Quite missed it when I got fancy silicone "racing" replacement leads, though they were bright orange, which helped a bit.
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I had a Lads Riva 1300 estate. Once I replaced the carburettor with a Weber it was quite a good car. Easy to work on, apart from the points which were quite awkward iirc.
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I think the worst gadget that’s fitted to my car is the invisibility button, I can’t find it in the menu’s in the cars system, this makes it very dangerous to other road users as they’re constantly pulling out in front of me, but I think the keyless entry disables it as I can always find it in the car park……:)
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they’re constantly pulling out in front of me
And then driving VERY slowly in front of you. They live round here also.
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they’re constantly pulling out in front of me
And then driving VERY slowly in front of you. They live round here also.
And here too. I don't mind them pulling out in front of me so much as the impeding my progress when they've done it.
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The new Genesis SUV uses facial recognition to enter the car and a finger print scanner for the start button. Thieves will have to stand you in front of the B pillar to enter the car and I suppose if you don.t comply and start the car for them they will chop off your finger! You can opt to use a Key if you wish
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Thieves will have to stand you in front of the B pillar to enter the car and I suppose if you don.t comply and start the car for them they will chop off your finger! You can opt to use a Key if you wish
And if the car doesn't recognise you ..... :-(
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Thieves will have to stand you in front of the B pillar to enter the car and I suppose if you don.t comply and start the car for them they will chop off your finger! You can opt to use a Key if you wish
And if the car doesn't recognise you ..... :-(
There are plenty of smartphone reviews where the fingerprint sensor on some models is less than reliable. I suppose you would have to have a back up number code to enter if that situation arises. I'd rather just turn a key myself.
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Come back, Saab, all is forgiven!
The centre console mounted ignition key/gear lock was an utterly inspirational idea, stemming from Saab's own research that revealed a high number of knee injuries caused by the ignition lock traditionally placed for the manufacturer's convenience rather than the driver's. (In vengeful daydreaming moments I often hope that Saab's eccentricity helped served up a painful dose of karma in the form of whiplash to every novice Saab joyrider trying to steal one!) The only advantage of keyless ignition for me personally is the prospect of a car journey with an untroubled knee!
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Clearly some dont see keyless entry as a benefit.
I've had 4 consecutive cars with it - Kuga, Juke. Qashqai and an X3. Really like it. Also got a Mini with it. Will be on my next car.
Never had frozen locks, keys always on my person in a pocket - less chance of losing. No faffing around trying to get the key in a frozen door or an ignition barrel and turn it. No messing outside in the rain trying to unlock the car with an armful of shopping.
Just convenient. I'll add my X3 keys have been modified to cut the wireless signal after 2mins inactivity and they're in a Faraday pouch.
Yes it is progress - like Apple Car Play, my X3's speed or take a break warnings - but the dinosaurs dont like progress.
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Never had frozen locks, keys always on my person in a pocket - less chance of losing. No faffing around trying to get the key in a frozen door or an ignition barrel and turn it..
Well, most cars since 2000 have had remote locking, so keys only get into locks if that fails. And if locks are iced up it is quite likely the doors are too, if it's been raining.
I'm quite sure one easily gets accustomed to keyless start - the question is whether there is any need to.
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Yes it is progress - like Apple Car Play, my X3's speed or take a break warnings - but the dinosaurs dont like progress.
If homo sapiens last as long as the dinosaurs they'll be doing well.
Regarding progress, not all of us think such systems are of any better than what has gone before and have no wish to pay good money we earned to buy thing we don't need or want, if it aint broke don't fix it, for those who think such things are desirable and progress then by all means enjoy, neither of us is right or wrong simply choosing what we want.
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