|
Electric scooters/mopeds are already are on our roads and have been for some time.
The lowest powered versions are essentially classed as e bikes (which provide assistance up to 15.5mph), but which you don't have to pedal (though they do have pedals for when the battery runs out or it needs a help uphill). These (this type of thing, www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Bike-Yadea-Cool-J-Lith...J) are essentially rubbish, and you money would be far better spent on a decent quality e bike which will be much faster downhill, no slower uphill and much easier to pedal once the battery runs out of puff.
You then move on to stuff like this,www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2019-NIU-M-SERIES-PLUS-NIU-ELEC...V, which from the point of license requirements, is in the same classification as a 50cc moped.
Above that you have bigger scooters like this one of the same make, www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2019-NIU-NGT-NIU-ELECTRIC-SCOOT...1, which i believe would be classed as a 125cc for licence requrements.
But you also get proper electric motorbikes above this, including (shortly) Harley Davidson, with this, www.harley-davidson.com/gb/en/motorcycles/livewire...l. But stuff like this is already available urbanebikes.com/collections/electric-motorbikes/pr...t.
|
The lowest powered versions are essentially classed as e bikes (which provide assistance up to 15.5mph), but which you don't have to pedal (though they do have pedals for when the battery runs out or it needs a help uphill).
I thought legislation changed recently and e-bikes could now only be 'pedal assist'?
|
The lowest powered versions are essentially classed as e bikes (which provide assistance up to 15.5mph), but which you don't have to pedal (though they do have pedals for when the battery runs out or it needs a help uphill).
I thought legislation changed recently and e-bikes could now only be 'pedal assist'?
As far as i was aware, this is the case. Maybe it is in just this particular category (electric scooters/mopeds with pedals) the rules have changed again?. Either way, i don't really see these being used on the pavement as any more hazerdous as cycling on the pavement. Despite what some seem to think, electric vehicles, be they 2 or 4 wheeled are not 'silent', and would certainly be noisier than a well maintained bicycle. That isn't to say they should be allowed on pavements, but there should be no issue at all with them using a cyle path. A bicycle can easily be going more than 15-16mph, even on a level surface.
And as for the notion that they might not have brakes, why on earth would you think that?. Regarding insurance, this would probably be the same as a bicycle, that is, you probably should have, but it isn't a legal requirement.
I would be much more concerned at the thought of one of these electric scooters (with pedals) being use on the road. As they can only do 15-16mph thay are going to be going much slower than even a 50cc job, and that is assuming a level surface. Going uphill that could well be down to under 5mph (with pedal assistance). And while you would expect a bicycle going uphill to be going that slow, that wouldn't be the case with something which looks from the rear like a 'normal' moped, so you could well end up bearing down on it much quicker than expected.
|
|
When I put this on I was concerned about SCOOTERS. From what I observe they do not have pedals or brakes just an electric pack on the stem and a throttle?
|
When I put this on I was concerned about SCOOTERS. From what I observe they do not have pedals or brakes just an electric pack on the stem and a throttle?
What makes you think they have no brakes?
|
|
|
|
|
I think we may be comparing apples and oranges here ... I had understood the proposal to be referring to electric scooters like these ... https://www.halfords.com/kids-zone/scooters/electric-scooters
Even with these lower power machines I'm concerned that allowing them on pavements would pose real dangers to pedestrians, especially the elderly who are unable to leap to safety when a scooter comes up behind them at 15mph!
In this area the only cycle lanes I see are actually pavements (no wider than before) which have been designated for dual use ... the only difference being dropped kerbs now at junctions so that cyclists don't have to dismount.
|
When I put this on I was concerned about SCOOTERS. From what I observe they do not have pedals or brakes just an electric pack on the stem and a throttle?
Aah, i now know what you are on about, something like this?, www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/xiaomi-mi-electric-scooter...E, right?. OK, well it may be the case that the legality of these both on roads an pavements is currently being considered, but in my experience (i see plenty), they are already being used on both pavements and roads. I guess the users are assuming (correctly in most cases) that unless they are behaving dangerously, the Police are not going to be overly concerned. But rest assured, they do have brakes!.
Even with these lower power machines I'm concerned that allowing them on pavements would pose real dangers to pedestrians, especially the elderly who are unable to leap to safety when a scooter comes up behind them at 15mph!
As i have said before, more than once, it is very easy for a bicycle to be travelling at 15mph or more, so i don't see how these electric scooters are going to prove any more hazerdous on a pavement than a cyclist?. And just to repeat (as i said before), that isn't to say i think they should be allowed on the pavement, just that they are no worse than a bicyle. Of much more concern are riders on the pavement (cyclists or electric scooter riders) not paying attention because they are using their smart phones, that is where the real problem lies.
|
|
|
|
I think there are real risks to pedestrians if used on pavements. But the advantages of small, non-polluting, urban transport are potentially huge.
Due to health constraints a year ago I was unable to drive for several months. To retain some mobility around my medium sized town I bought an electric bike - assisted up to 25kph.
Aside from re-learning bike control after 40 years, it quickly became apparent that I could cover the mile or so into the town centre in about 5 minutes - about the same as starting the car but no driving around trying to find a parking space and feeding money into machines.
So if the country is serious about reducing traffic congestion and urban pollution, we need to make changes to infrastructure to allow this to happen easily - cycle/electric lanes, undercover secure parking, joined up routes without having to cross major roads etc etc.
|
|
Well said Terry W. The advantages of e-bikes, e-scooters and short journeys are overwhelming. Manchester has a very ambitious plan for building segregated, at-grade cycle infrastructure which could transform city centres and neighbourhoods. I was appalled to read that 1/3rd of all car journeys in greater Manchester is less than 1 kilometre. 1/3rd. That's insane and behaviours have to change.
Would be interested to know how much better your bank balance was during the non-driving months.
I run my car, and own a few bikes (not e-bike yet). All my local journeys are by bike, wherever possible. For Christmas, I received a bike trailer, allowing a decent amount of stuff to be towed along.
|
|
|
|
|
As they can only do 15-16mph thay are going to be going much slower than even a 50cc job, and that is assuming a level surface.
In urban traffic that's more than enough to be overtaking queues of cars..........
|
|
Being hit by a Scooter & a 12 stone user is no laughing matter.
I was hit in a supermarket till queue by a invalid scooter & user at less than walking pace.
She got her bag handles & hands wrapped up and accelerated rather than braking.
The speed was less than walking pace - say 2 mph as against an e-scooter at 15mph
Energy is 1/2 mv Squared
roughly 50 x momentum.
|
|
|
As they can only do 15-16mph thay are going to be going much slower than even a 50cc job, and that is assuming a level surface.
I've seen one doing close on 40mph. They can be 'tweaked'.
|
I've seen one doing close on 40mph. They can be 'tweaked'.
Not so much that they can be tweaked (though that may be the case), but that they can be de-restricted. Just like 50c bikes which are restricted to 30mph, so are the 15.5mph scooters restricted to that speed.
Also, the scooters restricted to 15.5mph are ones you are likely to buy in a shop or official outlet. Those bought on Ebay or Amazon are just as likely to not be restricted by anything other than how fast the motor will propel it.
|
I've seen one doing close on 40mph. They can be 'tweaked'.
Not so much that they can be tweaked (though that may be the case), but that they can be de-restricted. Just like 50c bikes which are restricted to 30mph, so are the 15.5mph scooters restricted to that speed.
Also, the scooters restricted to 15.5mph are ones you are likely to buy in a shop or official outlet. Those bought on Ebay or Amazon are just as likely to not be restricted by anything other than how fast the motor will propel it.
Early morning in the dark the other week heading from woolwich common towards shooters hill (if anyone knows the area) was doing the 30mph speed limit in a calibrated lorry. Was behind a scooter who was pulling away from me, n ights or hi viz on in the main carriage way. Sure he can keep up with traffic but if someone isn't paying attention when pulling out form a side turning etc he would be killed.
|
|
Some 'local yoofs' were recently using my hosuing development as a racetrack. I'm sure the elderly residents and those people with toddlers didn't appreciate what they were doing, never mind the rest of us.
Absolute mennace, including the people using them as lazy transportation to/from the station or place of employment via the pavement/road, appearing out of nowhere almost silently (I doubt if many OAPs will notice them until it's too late) and darting in between people and traffic as they wish.
Why are these things allowed on either road or pavement at far higher speeds than disabled buggies or without some form of licence etc I don't know.
|
|
Some (probably very few) of us may have been perfect and socially considerate in our youth.
I wasn't - although far from the worst offender.
It is completely unreasonable to deny youth the sort of freedom that we relished when we were young 30, 40 or 50 years ago.
Electric scooters, aside from the fun element, are a fantastic improvement for many:
- no longer need to wait for a bus
- no pollution, no need to drive a car to the station
- cheaper than public transport
|
Some (probably very few) of us may have been perfect and socially considerate in our youth.
I wasn't - although far from the worst offender.
It is completely unreasonable to deny youth the sort of freedom that we relished when we were young 30, 40 or 50 years ago.
When I was a yoof, 99% of people stopped riding on the pavement once our bike stabilisers were taken off. Even those who didn't did not ride at 20mph on the pavement.
Electric scooters, aside from the fun element, are a fantastic improvement for many:
- no longer need to wait for a bus
Gee, that makes a great excuse to do as you please, however badly that affects other people. Maybe I could buy a dirt bike and ride that on the pavement - that's great fun. Not so much for everyone else. Let's hope you don't get knocked over by someone on an electric scooter. I've had several near misses.
- no pollution, no need to drive a car to the station
No exercise = overweight, unhealthy person. I seriously doubt as well that anyone who used to drive to the station now goes the same trip via electric scooter. Most people who drive to the station tend to live in villages with little to no pavements on country lanes to the station. Most users I've seen previously walked to their station/workplace.
The only time I see these idiots on the road are on residential roads or when crossing a main road in an urban area.
Scooters need to be made and electricity generated. Not everyone has a PV array on their roof either.
- cheaper than public transport
Walking is even cheaper, and more environmentally friendly (no scooter to build or electricity to generate) and better for your health, as is cycling.
Edited by Engineer Andy on 28/12/2020 at 16:36
|
|
The only time I see these idiots on the road are on residential roads or when crossing a main road in an urban area.
Lucky you, I see at least 5-6 on one trip over about 8 miles, and often the same or more in the evening and not all youngsters, the older people are taking them up now and are just as bad as the teens who ride them.
Trials bikes are often ridden on our paths when they are not riding over school fields, football grounds, and play areas, leaving a trail of mud everywhere
But then I`m not urban, I`m in Town!
|
|
I hope a few more cases get to Court so that riders start to act like responsible road users.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55719218
|
|
|
|
|
