Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 13:26
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - JF1975

As the title suggests next year I will be looking to replace my diesel volvo v40. I do 16k miles per year and will be looking for a used hatchback up to 2 years old. I am unsure if to look at a reputable diesel engine in the honda civic for example or look at small turbo petrol engines in the focus or golf for example. The alternative would be the larger naturally aspirated engine of the mazda 3. I am concerned about the rising cost of diesel but don't travel into a city to worry about congestion charges

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 13:48
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - Avant

A Golf 1.4 TSI is fine as long as you go for a manual rather than DSG - but a Skoda Octavia or SEAT Leon with the same engine will be cheaper, or you'll get a newer one for the same money. SWMBO has this engine in her Audi A1 and it gives about 45 mpg in town and up to 55 on a long run. No need for a diesel!

If your budget runs to a new-shape Honda Civic, these are welll-thought of - either the 1.0 or 1.5 petrol.

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 13:58
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - JF1975

Thanks Avant . I will definitely look at the new Honda engines likely the smaller one only to be within budget. The 1.4 125ps leon in xcellence trim may be tempting and hopefully somewhere near the comfort levels of my v40. The octavia is a little too big and plain looking for my tastes as I couldn't afford a vrs!

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 15:09
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - badbusdriver

Be aware that the 1.6 turbo diesel of the Civic is pretty much trouble free compared to other modern diesels and very economical. So while your mileage doesn't demand diesel, i certainly wouldn't rule out a diesel Honda.

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 15:39
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - JF1975

Thanks bad bus driver. I think the honda diesel in the hrv or civic is the only diesel I would entertain. The infotainment system in the new civic does worry me. Reviews generally criticise my v40's push button affair but I find it tactile and easy to use once you get familiar with it. ...I do like the look of the new focus and wonder if the 1.0 125 engine here is now considered a safe enough call for my mileage ?

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 16:27
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - badbusdriver

It would be nice to think that Ford had got on top of the issue suffered by the 1.0 ecoboost, which otherwise seems to be a very well liked engine (though they do seem to be rather less efficient than you might expect in real life driving). But I'm not sure I'd be comfortable parting with my own money for one, unless planning to get rid of it before the warranty was up.

Regarding the infotainment on the new Civic, no direct experience of it, but we have a current shape top of the range Jazz, and while it definitely is not as easy to use as well designed and placed buttons, it isn't too bad, and you do get used to it.

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 16:46
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - JF1975

I think you are right in that when the time comes to hand over money on a used car it may be difficult to trust the focus.

Good also to hear a positive review of the honda infotainment . A prev gen civic sport would be tempting with the 1.6 diesel but not if the price of the black pump continues to rise offsetting the 60 mpg that I would expect.

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 17:39
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - Engineer Andy

The octavia is a little too big and plain looking for my tastes as I couldn't afford a vrs!

Just bear in mind that the latest Civic isn't a smallish car any more, and is not that much smaller than the Octavia. Both have much larger boots than the vast majority of the competition. The previous gen Civic is a bit smaller, but still has a decent sized boot, quite a bit larger than the Golf/Leon and other C-sector competitors.

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 18:17
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - JF1975

The octavia is a little too big and plain looking for my tastes as I couldn't afford a vrs!

Just bear in mind that the latest Civic isn't a smallish car any more, and is not that much smaller than the Octavia. Both have much larger boots than the vast majority of the competition. The previous gen Civic is a bit smaller, but still has a decent sized boot, quite a bit larger than the Golf/Leon and other C-sector competitors.

Sorry missed this one Andy and it's a good point. I definitely want a compact car and the civic is now bordering on the class above. Inbetween my golf focus type cars I had a yeti which was brilliant to manoeuvre. The Leon I believe has a turning circle of 10m . Impressive. One of the real downsides to my v40 is the large turning circle

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 17:18
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - SLO76
I like the new Civic and they are starting to drop to a more realistic price nearly new now but the latest turbocharged petrol motors are still untested regarding longterm durability but then it’s rare Honda gets an engine wrong and I have full confidence it’ll give no grief at all if looked after. However your above average mileage will harm the 1.0’s resale value, less so the diesel.

The previous gen model is good value now and the 1.6 diesel is robust, gutsy and hugely economical. If I were doing a lot of miles it’s probably where my money would go but I take your point about the disparity between petrol and diesel at the moment though it’s likely this will change as time goes on. It’s a supply and demand thing. The diesel will be easier to sell on and your above average mileage will affect its value less than the petrol. I’d go for a used 1.6 but I’d forget the sportier models with former suspension and look for an SE.

I also like the Mazda 3 2.0 Skyactiv which again will do 50mpg on a run and is good fun to drive and likely to be utterly reliable. It lacks torque which will see you changing down when you need a turn of speed but it’s hardly a great hardship. Chain driven with no turbo it’s relatively simple mechanically and should be fit for big six figure mileages with ease.

The Toyota Auris 1.2T is a decent cheaper alternative but it’s a bit dull inside and no great shakes to drive. It’s reliable, economical and comfortable though.

The Seat Leon 1.4 TSi is another good model. Nice to drive and very efficient but it’s a bit dull to look at and likely to drop in value quite quickly unless you go for one of the sportier FR models which hold great appeal for younger drivers yet aren’t overly firm riding. A 1.4 TSi FR is the best model. The pre 2015 diesels are bad for DPF and EGR issues particularly the 1.6. A later 2.0 diesel would be tempting at the right money though.

I wouldn’t touch a Focus with the now notorious 1.0 Ecoboost. It’s not proving to be robust and Ford themselves even admit it’s not designed to be repairable if anything major fails in the engine. It’s a full replacement job and it happens all too often. The later 1.5/1.6 diesels are an improvement but still there are too many cases of failure to recommend them.

I’d go Japanese personally but get out there and try them out.

Edited by SLO76 on 15/12/2018 at 17:25

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 17:39
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - JF1975

Wise words as ever. I too would only trust honda with a 1 litre engine based on their reputation of great reliable engines in the recent past.

I think your list outlines all my viable alternatives the only one I would have to discount is the auris in that the interior would be too much of a step down from my v40

I like the look of the new xcellence trim on the leon especially in black. The fr trim might just be a little youthful for me though I appreciate it is not overstated

The mazda 3 2.0 is definitely an option though I wish the sportnav trim ran on 17s not 18s as I am worried that this would affect the ride quality. The cx3 interests me also but my not accommodate my 6 foot 5 height too well.

Definitely a test drive of them all is the way forward when the time comes!

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 19:58
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - Engineer Andy

I test drove the current Mazda3 and CX-3 back in Jan/Feb 2017 - I much prefered the ride quality of the SE-L Navs (both) shod on 60 profile 16in tyres rather than the Sport Nav models shod on lower profile 18in ones. Handling not much between each sub-model and the two cars generally - both very good. Both cars have been recently (2017 and 2018) refreshed and now include a electronic parking brake rather than a 'old school' handbrake lever. I personally prefer the old way, though have onlytest-driven the 3 with the new system.

I wouldn't call either really spritely, just reasonable in 2.0 petrol (120PS) form. Note that at least in the CX-3 you lose the spare wheel space and 63 ltr of boot in the Sport to accommodate the upgraded ICE, but not in the Mazda3, though reports say that with both you have to raise the boot floor up a bit (losing useful space) to accommodate the space saver (which is a £395 optional extra on new cars - make sure its fitted or use the lack thereof as a negotiating tactic).

Avoid the diesels, as both the 1.5 and 2.2 have had numerous issues, and I'd personally waiting until they are fixed before thinking about buying one if I needed to. Your mileage still says petrol, which is a reliable unit.

I found the driving position for the 3 better than the CX-3, probably because I already own a gen-1 Mazda3 and its not that much different, if a little lower. Maybe just personal preference. I'd be interested to see how someone as tall as you are gets on with the 3 as it looks lower than my older version.

A shame that the new version of the 3 due in the new year may not be in your price range, as it certainly is a looker, even if the new-fangled SCCI engine is probably only available in the Sport models. Apparently the ride quality is much improved - no tests yet to give much more. The existing petrol SkyActiv-G units will be carried over (apparently improved a bit) and a new 1.8 TD will be introduced (unproven - I wouldn't go for that until it is), not sure whether this replaces just the 1.5 TD or both that and the 2.2 TD.

The Leon with the run-out 1.4 TSI Eco 150 FR would be my choice as a decent alternative, depending on whether you can get on with the ride quality when shod on 18in tyres. Not sure if the later model SEs comes with that engine or just the 125PS version, which is still decent and better (more useful - better low down grunt) than the 2.0 N/A (120PS) unit currently in the Mazdas.

I'd check out prices via online brokers (what is your budget - I didn't see it earlier) first to see if you might be able to affor certain cars as new or, at the moment, pre-regged/showroom cars that dealers might want to offload before the new year ticks over, to achieve their monthly/quarterly/annual sales targets. Mazda dealers in particular may well want to shift all their remaining stocks of Mazda3s in readiness of the new car arriving on ??? (not sure when in 2019). Worth a look post Christmas for some deals...

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Sat 15 Dec 2018 20:35
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - JF1975

Thanks Andy for the comprehensive and informative answer as ever.

You are right to point out the perils of the mazda diesels, I would not touch any of them which is a shame as the 2.2 is reported as a strong engine. No point though if unreliable.

I would think that the 2.0 petrol would be likely in my top 3 at least and definitely test driven. I believe the sel version is well equipped as you say so will just have to make sure I was happy after years of turbo diesels moving to a NA petrol engine. I am assured that the 3 is bigger inside than my volvo and tbh I have never struggled as a driver in that. It's only the rear seat passenger behind me that struggles and that is a rarity in our one child family. The majority of time it is just me along the m60 each day.

I would imagine that the leon 150 is a superb engine but again I may be more tempted in xcellence trim. My v40 is a lowered r design and I see the fr leon as similar to this. Going forward I may wish to have something a little easier to get in an out of. Plus we have some annoying speed humps on our road that I do scrape fully loaded in my car.

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Sun 16 Dec 2018 08:32
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - Oli rag

My son drives a current shape Seat Leon 1.6 tdi SE. I've been in it a few times and can't see what the appeal is of them. I find the seats flat and firm, engine clattery, the ride a bit too hard, and i really don't like the dash, it's just so bland.

Having said all that his has been totally reliable and economical.

Edited by Oli rag on 16/12/2018 at 08:34

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Sun 16 Dec 2018 09:15
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - JF1975

I think the seats in the fr and the xcellence are more supportive than the se . Both trims also bring a little more to the party for the interior also but I appreciate still not to golf or Audi standards

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Sun 16 Dec 2018 10:30
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - Engineer Andy

No - I don't think that the Mazda 3 is any bigger inside than the v40. Even though both are now different cars to the previous generations, they both come from a common beginning in the shared platform with the Ford Focus and haven't diverged much from that since they both departed the Ford family 5 years or so ago. I sat inside the v40 when I was looking for a new car in 2017 and it seemed about the same size as the Mazda 3. It wasn't my cup of tea though.

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Sun 16 Dec 2018 10:51
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - skidpan

We had the 1.4 TSi 140 PS Leon for 4 utterly reliable years. We did several 400+ mile days and found the SE seats perfectly comfortable. It was reliable and on the 16" wheels rode and handled well. Over those 4 years it avergaed a bit over 45 mpg and would do in the low 50's on a run (these are calculated not from the dash display).

When we traded it we got a decent enough price especially when you consider we bought the new motor via a broker with a huge discount, a bit more than WBAC were offering. But despite the fact the car was as good a 4 year old example you would find anywhere with just under 30,000 miles on the clock it sat on the independent VAG specialists forecourt for 9 months. Couple of reasons, main one was the dealer was asking way too much money, it was the most expensive on Autotrader with similar mileage spec etc, everytime I had a look. 2nd was the fact it was the SE and not the FR, if it had been the FR it would have flown off the forecourt.

I would happily have another Leon TSi but I would probably have trouble deciding SE or FR next time. Would come down to the deal but personally I did hate those 1/2 plastic seats in the FR when I sat in them, way too tacky for a car of those aspirations.

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Sun 16 Dec 2018 13:51
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - JF1975

Thanks Skidpan. The 140 version may be a good used buy now certainly if i can achieve anything near 45mpg . I currently get 55ish in the v40 but of course the cost of diesel is now around 8% dearer.

Hopefully I could run a used one with say 20k on the clock at purchase for 3 years without the value depreciating too much. That is the one thing that sways me to a civic diesel as pointed out by one poster above that a higher mileage diesel civic would not put off a buyer too much

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Sun 16 Dec 2018 15:36
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - JF1975

No - I don't think that the Mazda 3 is any bigger inside than the v40. Even though both are now different cars to the previous generations, they both come from a common beginning in the shared platform with the Ford Focus and haven't diverged much from that since they both departed the Ford family 5 years or so ago. I sat inside the v40 when I was looking for a new car in 2017 and it seemed about the same size as the Mazda 3. It wasn't my cup of tea though.

Fair enough Andy. I didn't think there was a huge amount in it but reviews had led me to believe the mazda had the edge in space. In fairness my seat is not all the way back in the v40 and carrying 2 resr sest passengers is a rarity so is not a priority for me

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Sun 16 Dec 2018 18:43
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - Engineer Andy

No - I don't think that the Mazda 3 is any bigger inside than the v40. Even though both are now different cars to the previous generations, they both come from a common beginning in the shared platform with the Ford Focus and haven't diverged much from that since they both departed the Ford family 5 years or so ago. I sat inside the v40 when I was looking for a new car in 2017 and it seemed about the same size as the Mazda 3. It wasn't my cup of tea though.

Fair enough Andy. I didn't think there was a huge amount in it but reviews had led me to believe the mazda had the edge in space. In fairness my seat is not all the way back in the v40 and carrying 2 resr sest passengers is a rarity so is not a priority for me

It may do - it's just that I didn't notice much of a difference space-wise when I sat in both. Best to try them all out for yourself. I also didn't like the V40 as (unlike the Mazdas) it didn't have a left foot rest for the driver - an essential item for me.

Odd, considering Volvo make a big play about their in-car ergonomics. I'd also note that the V40 still has that cheesy little satnav/ICE display screen - not even replaced with a larger one for the refreshed model about 18 months ago.

The Mazda system isn't brilliant, but at least now the newst ones come with Android Auto/Apple Car Play as well as Mazda's own system, and (for a hefty price [£350]) you can get the older ones from the gen-3 car upgraded.

Boot space in the hatch version of the 3 is about 10% more than the V40 at about 360 ltr, but it does apparently reduce a bit if you have a space saver spare fitted under the main boot in the 3 as it (not confirmed, but some people says it does) perhaps raises the boot floor up a bit. At least the spare wheel/tyre/kit only costs £150 for the V40 - the Mazda's costs £395 (a rip-off in my view). Don't ever buy one without a spare wheel and tyre.

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Sun 16 Dec 2018 21:05
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - JF1975

I actually like the interior layout of the v40 although I take your point re the footrest. I also prefer the tactile buttons rather than a touchscreen although I know the mazda has the rotary dial control system.

I have the dreaded can of foam in my car. Awful. Just hope i never have to use it at the side of the motorway.

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Sun 16 Dec 2018 23:52
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - focussed

I have the dreaded can of foam in my car. Awful. Just hope i never have to use it at the side of the motorway.

If it gets you off the motorway to somewhere quieter, quickly, you might be glad of it.

The most dangerous place on a motorway is broken down on the hard shoulder.

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Mon 17 Dec 2018 07:57
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - Engineer Andy

I have the dreaded can of foam in my car. Awful. Just hope i never have to use it at the side of the motorway.

If it gets you off the motorway to somewhere quieter, quickly, you might be glad of it.

The most dangerous place on a motorway is broken down on the hard shoulder.

The can of goo is no good for more serious punctures, especially involving the sidewall. In those cases, you then could be in for a lengthy wait and a big bill if you have to borrow a space saver from a breakdown service.

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Mon 17 Dec 2018 09:45
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - madf

I have the dreaded can of foam in my car. Awful. Just hope i never have to use it at the side of the motorway.

If it gets you off the motorway to somewhere quieter, quickly, you might be glad of it.

The most dangerous place on a motorway is broken down on the hard shoulder.

The can of goo is no good for more serious punctures, especially involving the sidewall. In those cases, you then could be in for a lengthy wait and a big bill if you have to borrow a space saver from a breakdown service.

Hear Hear. In March this year Jazz had a puncture at Stoneleigh Warwickshire. A jagged piece of metal ended up embedded half way through the tread of a rear tyre- cut about 2cms long. Fortunately I had a space saver and the enclosed Honda electric pump as well as the standard goo on a Jazz.(the goo would not have worked). A slow 50mph journey home but eminently doable without waiting hours for a spare.. Beast from East time - changing a wheel was cold..(carpet square and rubber gloves saved me)

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Thu 20 Dec 2018 00:09
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - focussed

A good idea to have both - I have a space saver and the honda goo and pump.

Always have a back-up - self-reliance. In our L200 I carry two large cans of goo, plus big compressor pump and a full size spare.

If I get a puncture out on the chemins in the woods on soft ground, not a good idea to start jacking to change a wheel.

I have used the Holts aerosol repair before, one wet night with a nail in a tyre on an old Corsa, gets you going and gets you home.

Edited by focussed on 20/12/2018 at 00:12

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Thu 20 Dec 2018 07:32
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - SLO76
“A good idea to have both - I have a space saver and the honda goo and pump.”

Agree. I always carry both a spare (for me) and a can of destroy a tyre goo for her since she refuses to learn how to change a wheel.
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Mon 24 Dec 2018 17:37
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - focussed
“A good idea to have both - I have a space saver and the honda goo and pump.” Agree. I always carry both a spare (for me) and a can of destroy a tyre goo for her since she refuses to learn how to change a wheel.

But it doesn't " destroy a tyre" - I demonstrated this to my usual local tyre shop who refused to have anything to do with a tyre which I had dumped an aerosol of Holts finest get you home stuff into the previous rainy night.

I said to take the tyre off, they did- I asked where the hose was in the yard - I washed the inside of the tyre out - the stuff emulsifies and washes out completely.

Big handful of shop towel paper - dried it out - stood it in front of the big diesel heater in the workshop for 15 mins.

(They asked me how I knew the stuff washes out - had I been on a tyre fitters course? - no!)

I asked them to examine it for signs of damage (there wasn't any apart from the small hole from the puncture) they immediately said we can't guarantee the repair (which they had previously refused to do)

I told them to get on with it - they vulcanised a mushroom patch on the puncture.

I ran it for a further 2 years or so - no problem.

Make of this what you will - but tyre sealing aerosols don't destroy tyres in my experience.

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Mon 24 Dec 2018 19:38
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - madf

A good idea to have both - I have a space saver and the honda goo and pump.

Always have a back-up - self-reliance. In our L200 I carry two large cans of goo, plus big compressor pump and a full size spare.

If I get a puncture out on the chemins in the woods on soft ground, not a good idea to start jacking to change a wheel.

I have used the Holts aerosol repair before, one wet night with a nail in a tyre on an old Corsa, gets you going and gets you home.

I also carry a small square of wood to place the jack on, in the event of soft ground..

Yes: I am sad like that due to past experiences...

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Wed 26 Dec 2018 12:02
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - focussed

"I also carry a small square of wood to place the jack on, in the event of soft ground..

Yes: I am sad like that due to past experiences..."

Hmm - very handy I'm sure, but our L200 with a full tank weighs just over 2000 kg, and 60% of that is over the front wheels according to the weight/braking calculation detailed on the french mot sheet.

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Thu 20 Dec 2018 07:58
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - gordonbennet
The most dangerous place on a motorway is broken down on the hard shoulder.

Coming to you soon if not already, a whole lot more dangerous place to break down, a live running lane on a completely unlit motorway with unbroken Armco to the left, not even a chance to roll to relative safety on the grass verge.

Great design chaps, what could possibly go wrong.

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Thu 20 Dec 2018 08:06
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - sandy56

You list the Civic but dont mention the newish 1.0l turbo petrol that gets good reviews, or the latest, with the more powerful 1.5 petrol engine.

Another option is the Toyota Auris hybrid.

Lots of info on this site about these cars, and others.

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Wed 26 Dec 2018 15:19
Honda Civic - Petrol v diesel hatch - Avant

I know the thread has drifted, but it's led to an interesting issue re tyres.

Focussed says 'Make of this what you will - but tyre sealing aerosols don't destroy tyres in my experience.'

We've been led to believe that they do - but maybe it's the tyre retailers who are telling us this. They don't want to put in the effort that Focussed successfully did, but they do want to sell new tyres. The fitters may not be on commission, but the branch manager surely is.

Has anyone any evidence on this one way or the other?

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If you cover no more than 100 miles per day and have easy access to a charging point at home or work, then an EV is ideal for you.

Is an electric car right for me?