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The present strom in a teacup wouldn't make a scrap of difference to me, if VW made a product i wanted (they don't and haven't for decades) i'd be buying anyway.
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I thought that all the electronics in German cars were developed by Siemens so is it not conceivable that other German marques may have been "tweeked"to meet the increasingly difficult emission requirements ?
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All this hysteria is crazy - I've even heard mention of banning diesel cars or introducing a scrappage scheme for them.
What would be really bad would be if an unholy alliance between anti-diesel petrolheads and anti-car environmentalists duped the media and politicians onto over reacting.
Also, over the years there have been a lot of mass recalls in USA of cars made by foreign companies - one could construct a hypothetical conspiracy theory, even.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 23/09/2015 at 22:00
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All this hysteria is crazy - I've even heard mention of banning diesel cars or introducing a scrappage scheme for them.
What would be really bad would be if an unholy alliance between anti-diesel petrolheads and anti-car environmentalists duped the media and politicians onto over reacting.
Also, over the years there have been a lot of mass recalls in USA of cars made by foreign companies - one could construct a hypothetical conspiracy theory, even.
I thought they were over reacting, but don`t they always, it will be all over in a few months
Banning diesel cars was mentioned by Boris Johnson in central london but I doubt it would happen.
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This article suggests that British motorists will bring a class action against VAG.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246834/UK-driver...l
What with the regular telephone calls from Asian gentlemen to ask whether I have had an accident in the last three years, can we now expect more calls to enquire whether we own a VW group car ?
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It seems that BMW are also on the list of being economical with the truth.
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At the moment the spotlight is on diesel engines but if programmers are able to make chips that cheat the emmissions regs for diesels, surely they could do something similar for petrol engines and indeed for other technologies which have emissions or performance standards to meet.
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At the moment the spotlight is on diesel engines but if programmers are able to make chips that cheat the emmissions regs for diesels, surely they could do something similar for petrol engines and indeed for other technologies which have emissions or performance standards to meet.
Yes, they could easily have done that as well but I don't belive that any other companies are likely to have done it.
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All this hysteria is crazy - I've even heard mention of banning diesel cars or introducing a scrappage scheme for them.
What would be really bad would be if an unholy alliance between anti-diesel petrolheads and anti-car environmentalists duped the media and politicians onto over reacting.
Also, over the years there have been a lot of mass recalls in USA of cars made by foreign companies - one could construct a hypothetical conspiracy theory, even.
I thought they were over reacting, but don`t they always, it will be all over in a few months
Banning diesel cars was mentioned by Boris Johnson in central london but I doubt it would happen.
The lawsuits will last for years..
And VAG are going to have to pay LOTS more than the £5billion they estimated.
Banning diesel cars in London is very likely. The emission levels are very bad and not improving and kill people...
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All this hysteria is crazy - I've even heard mention of banning diesel cars or introducing a scrappage scheme for them.
What would be really bad would be if an unholy alliance between anti-diesel petrolheads and anti-car environmentalists duped the media and politicians onto over reacting.
Also, over the years there have been a lot of mass recalls in USA of cars made by foreign companies - one could construct a hypothetical conspiracy theory, even.
I thought they were over reacting, but don`t they always, it will be all over in a few months
Banning diesel cars was mentioned by Boris Johnson in central london but I doubt it would happen.
The lawsuits will last for years..
And VAG are going to have to pay LOTS more than the £5billion they estimated.
Banning diesel cars in London is very likely. The emission levels are very bad and not improving and kill people...
If they really want to tackle emissions in central London they need to aim towards banning the use of internal combustion engines in cars, vans and taxis. That would mean only battery electric cars or hybrids while running in electric mode. Obviously that isn't achievable now or next year, but in 5 or 10 years' time it could be.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 24/09/2015 at 19:05
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Battery electric cars will only be diverting emmisions from town into power stations unless they make those enviromentally better than they are, and able to cope with the increase in supply needed by cars wanting juice,
So not convinced we will be any better off, contrary to popular belief
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Whilst it's true that electric vehicles produce emissions at the power station, those emissions are much lower. In cities, the ic engine is very inefficient driving at an average of 5mph. This is where electric vehicles win hands down. Get onto the open road and the situation is quite different. It's all about having the appropriate power source for the load. A correctly specified Diesel can approach 50% efficiency but motoring has constantly changing requirements from the engine so we never achieve that.
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Whilst it's true that electric vehicles produce emissions at the power station, those emissions are much lower. In cities, the ic engine is very inefficient driving at an average of 5mph. This is where electric vehicles win hands down. Get onto the open road and the situation is quite different. It's all about having the appropriate power source for the load. A correctly specified Diesel can approach 50% efficiency but motoring has constantly changing requirements from the engine so we never achieve that.
The main "advantage" of electric vehicles is that city-dwellers pollution is moved to someone else's backyard where the power station is situated.
Reducing the congestion and population density in cities would be a much better plan - decentralise and use electronic communications more.
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Whilst it's true that electric vehicles produce emissions at the power station, those emissions are much lower.
Care to prove that statement? There is alot of losses all the way from the fuel used for generation, Friction and other losses of the generator, transformers, Resistance of cables in the national grid, Local sub stations to lower the voltage etc.
Those are all things before we look at lost energy in the electric vehicle itself.
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Indeed - even the most efficient power stations are, including all transmission/other losses, only about 35% efficient, which is why most people heat their homes with gas-fired boilers instead of electric heating. The best way is to produce and consume energy (for any usage) as locally as possible to reduce transmission costs.
At present, electricity is increadibly difficult to store in a low-loss, high energy density way, unlike fossil fuels. If and when battery technology improves dramatically (increases in solar panel efficient won't be able to prove instant power for vehicles - its just not enough for use in practical vehicles), including efficient charging will electric be more viable.
That being said, our electricity infrasturture as it currently stands would certainly not be able to cope with the huge extra demand, unless huge strides were also made in the efficiency of most other electricity-consuming products in concert with us the consumer not wasting so much of the stuff. This is all a LONG way off, probably 20, 30 or even 50 years into the future, assuming we live that long!
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I depends who you listen to. Distributing fuel to all the service stations also takes energy. The US Energy Information Administration claims its electricity transmission losses are 6% and its power stations are between 35 and 60% efficient. So let's settle for 50% overall.
Nissan leaf battery 24kWh approx range 100 miles. Say 4 miles per kWh?
Litre of Diesel 10kWh so for 100% efficiency, range 40 miles to compare with Nissan Leaf. Now 10 Miles per litre equates to about 45mpg, so our litre of Diesel could potentially be good for 180 miles. If we assume a Diesel car the same size as a Leaf is driven carefully it can probably manage 70mpg plus at cruising speed, maybe 90mpg for a smaller car. That's approaching 50%! But I am not suggesting electric cars are competitive in that scenario.
Move into town driving and your Leaf will have a similar range, but how will the Diesel do in stop-start traffic? 2 mile school run? Shopping trip? 30mpg? That's about 15%. So the crux of the matter seems to be the efficiency of the power grid. I would be very interested to hear debate on that point.
Having said all that I believe the present range of electric cars is flawed.
Tesla. Beautiful car, incredible engineering, rich kids' toy.
All the rest. Still over priced and loaded with expensive kit.
Gee Whizz. Poor kids' toy should be kept in the garden.
When all the VW emissions fuss has died down it will simply revert to economics again, and at present the electric car can't compete.
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Battery electric cars will only be diverting emmisions from town into power stations unless they make those enviromentally better than they are, and able to cope with the increase in supply needed by cars wanting juice,
So not convinced we will be any better off, contrary to popular belief
If you replace all the coal/oil/gas power stations with nuclear/wind/hydro/wave/solar power then you are sorted.
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I'm enjoying the viral pictures flying around the social media:
'Have you been mis-sold TDI?'
Priceless.
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I'm surprised that some enterprising firm isn't offering PDI (PPI) insurance when you go to but a VAG or other make diesel car.
Believe you me, the ONLY people who will come out on top (financially speaking) of this whole saga are laywers.
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On the broader subject of devices designed to get round regulations:
Some performance cars and motorcycles are fitted with exhaust silencer by-pass valves, either automatic or switchable, so that selfish drivers and riders can make their vehicles much noisier either by flicking a switch or simply revving hard at high revs.
Silencer by-pass valves are a blatant example of a means of getting round noise regulations and surely they should be banned.
The current controversy is about diesel engines but it's not difficult to imagine that electronic wizardry could be employed on petrol engines to make them seem cleaner than they are too.
In the old days mechanics used to tamper with injector pumps (diesel) or carburettors and ignition (petrol) before the MOT to get through emission tests, which were less stringent then, and afterwards reset everything to how it was befores.
Re VW - I'm not sure they've done anything wrong. Their cars complied with the emission tests in terms of the parameters by which the tests were conducted.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 25/09/2015 at 16:18
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I suppose the crux will be whether its against the law for vehicles to be fitted with devices or software that changes the way the engine works just for the test, or, as you say, if the car meets the regs under test conditions (not saying how that can be met), but only then. Again, more work for the lawyers.
I wonder if its any coincidence that VW are (I should I now say, were?) buying the Red Bull F1 Team - given how skilled F1 teams are at 'bending' their own sport's rules to the absolute limit, and sometimes beyond.
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I suppose the crux will be whether its against the law for vehicles to be fitted with devices or software that changes the way the engine works just for the test, or, as you say, if the car meets the regs under test conditions (not saying how that can be met), but only then. Again, more work for the lawyers.
I wonder if its any coincidence that VW are (I should I now say, were?) buying the Red Bull F1 Team - given how skilled F1 teams are at 'bending' their own sport's rules to the absolute limit, and sometimes beyond.
If its smart software, ie, it knows what country its in and is able to adjust according to their emmisions standards I cant see what the problem is, but if its designed to falsify tests as well then that is wrong but I cant see why the emmisions would be out as much as specified
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I suppose the crux will be whether its against the law for vehicles to be fitted with devices or software that changes the way the engine works just for the test, or, as you say, if the car meets the regs under test conditions (not saying how that can be met), but only then. Again, more work for the lawyers.
I wonder if its any coincidence that VW are (I should I now say, were?) buying the Red Bull F1 Team - given how skilled F1 teams are at 'bending' their own sport's rules to the absolute limit, and sometimes beyond.
I doubt VAG will be able to afford to run an F1 team..
The bills for this are going to be several times higher than the c £5B VAG estimated.
I suspect £30-£50B...or even more...
(Audi drivers will sue for loss of prestige:-)
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Battery electric cars will only be diverting emmisions from town into power stations unless they make those enviromentally better than they are, and able to cope with the increase in supply needed by cars wanting juice,
So not convinced we will be any better off, contrary to popular belief
If you replace all the coal/oil/gas power stations with nuclear/wind/hydro/wave/solar power then you are sorted.
I think nuclear is the only power source which stands any chance of winning the power wants battle, wind is too much of a blot on landscape and solar, like wind, takes up too much room
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A nuclear powered car?
Advantages: no-one will park irritatatingly too close to you.
Disadvantages: Lots of terrorists will constantly be trying to steal it or blow it up.
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AT least it'll be green and can be seen in the dark!
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Battery electric cars will only be diverting emmisions from town into power stations unless they make those enviromentally better than they are, and able to cope with the increase in supply needed by cars wanting juice,
So not convinced we will be any better off, contrary to popular belief
If you replace all the coal/oil/gas power stations with nuclear/wind/hydro/wave/solar power then you are sorted.
I think nuclear is the only power source which stands any chance of winning the power wants battle, wind is too much of a blot on landscape and solar, like wind, takes up too much room
If you go all renewable and nuclear then some wind/hydro etc will be required as nuclear power is only good as the main source of power as it's no good to turn off and on as needed as you can do with wind.
Personally I like looking at wind turbines so having some more about wouldn't be a worry.
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