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Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - Mathematics

Bought a used car through Facebook market and we made a mistake.

On inspection we figured out there was something wrong with one part of car but we were not sure. We offered X amount but seller offered X + £500 with 6 month's warranty on if something major fault comes up in car. We accepted it.

On sale invoice which is on letter head of seller's company which deals with something other then cars, they wrote that car is sold for this amount and included 6 months warranty T&C. In invoice they didn't provided any T&Cs.

After 2 weeks this part started showing signs of a serious problem. On inspection from 3 garages, they all suggest it needs replacement as soon as possible.

Now spoken to seller they say warranty was only for car's tyres which obliviously not true as invoice is for car not tyres.

In advert they said car is in perfect condition and full service history, both statements were incorrect.

I read on internet private car sales, buyer don't have many rights, however I am unable to find relevant cases where seller provided written signed agreement with 6 months warranty. Is there a case for me ?

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - Bromptonaut

Suspect you were had. If you're in England/Wales Small Claims Court is a possibility, presumably there's something similar in Scotland or NI?

Unless amount at stake is well into hundreds AND you're sure putative defendant has means to satisfy a judgement you might be better to chalk it down to experience.

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - RobJP

Technically, if the seller has put 'six months warranty' on it, then you've got them over a barrel. You'd write to them saying the car has a fault, and asking them to arrange repair (do note that you'd HAVE to give them the opportunity to do the repair). If they refuse, you'd go get the repair done yourself, pay for it, and then take them to Small Claims Court for that cost. They refuse to comply with the judgement, you get the bailiffs in on them.

However ... reality is rather different. I suspect you've been had, and you'd have a nightmare on your hands. Firstly, you'd have to prove that THEY wrote the '6 months warranty' on the sale sheet (If I was dodgy then I'd try to make out that part was a forgery), then you'd have to get the judgement, then they'd have to actually have the assets to pay (or for the bailiffs to seize) .... etc, etc.

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - SLO76
Buy in a private sale in order to seek a cheap car but you now expect to have your cake and eat it. Sorry but if you bought from anyone other than a dealer then you have no comeback, that’s the risk you take to get a bargain I’m afraid. Pay to have it fixed out of the money you saved over a dealers sale price and learn from your mistake. The only warranty that means anything in a private sale is if there’s any manufacturer backed warranty left to run which will transfer with title of the car. This is just one of those wee life lessons I’m afraid.
Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - Brit_in_Germany

It is not a private sale though. It is a sale by a company which has to abide by the CRA just like any dealer.

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - galileo

It is not a private sale though. It is a sale by a company which has to abide by the CRA just like any dealer.

Does this apply to any company disposing of a vehicle, if, for instance, an undertaker sells one of it's limos? Or must the company's main business be the buying and selling of vehicles?

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - gordonbennet

As you go through life you will discover that the word of a rapidly increasing number of people is not worth anything, honour and decency are words they know not the meaning of.

This is one of those instances.

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - Brit_in_Germany

This is how the act defines "trader":

(2)“Trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person’s trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader’s name or on the trader’s behalf.

I don't see that as requiring the contract to relate to the company's main business.

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - galileo

This is how the act defines "trader":

(2)“Trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person’s trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader’s name or on the trader’s behalf.

I don't see that as requiring the contract to relate to the company's main business.

I thought that the Act was intended to afford some protection to buyers (assumed to have no mechanical knowledge) from persons with mechanical expertise selling vehicles they know have faults not obvious to an inexpert buyer.

If a cake shop or florist sells a van they are replacing are they then expected to give 6 months warranty?

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - Avant

"If a cake shop or florist sells a van they are replacing are they then expected to give 6 months warranty?"

Not a warranty, but the implied conditions of a trade sale are there. It's often difficult to establish what a 'main business' is.

In a private sale of goods all that is implied is that (a) the goods are the property of the seller, and (b) they comply with any description given by the seller (e.g. 'Octavia 2.0 TDI' needs to be exactly that, not a 1.6 or a petrol). If you buy privately, nothing is implied about condition or fitness for purpose.

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - Brit_in_Germany

The same applies to a self-employed person selling a car owned by their company. It is a sale by a trader not a private sale.

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - SLO76
Good luck trying to make that interpretation of the law stick in a court of law. There’s is no way the court would see a florist offloading an old works van as being bound by the same rules as a dealer selling a vehicle for profit. Yes on paper it may say but there is much scope for the judges interpretation of the rules. You buy anything from someone stating that it’s a private sale and you don’t want to be bound by these conditions then don’t buy it.

Obviously I’m not talking about a dealer selling a retail priced car here but even myself I used to sell sub £1,000 cars on a strictly private sale conditions. If you weren’t willing to accept this I’d offer the same car with a warranty for £500 more to cover the certainty that any older vehicle will require ongoing maintenance. No one took up the warranty offer but a few did walk away from perfectly good old trade ins for the sake of their moral opinions and ended up missing out on very decent old cars. Anything I didn’t have confidence in was punted to auction but no one can offer a warranty on a low value car like this.

That said the OP does state that the seller did offer exactly what I used to do so the seller is a cretin for not standing by their offer. Lesson to learn here is only buy from a trustworthy source and make sure all paperwork is in order before handing over any money. Had it been me and you’d taken my offer of a warranty at £500 then I’d’ve either fixed it or refunded it in full.

Edited by SLO76 on 01/08/2018 at 22:38

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - Bromptonaut
Good luck trying to make that interpretation of the law stick in a court of law. There’s is no way the court would see a florist offloading an old works van as being bound by the same rules as a dealer selling a vehicle for profit.

The act's section on goods commences with words:

This Chapter applies to a contract for a trader to supply goods to a consumer.

Key definitions define a trader thus:

“Trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person’s trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader’s name or on the trader’s behalf.

A florist's trade, business, craft or profession is the supply of flowers, arrangements, wreaths etc.

It doesn't extend to disposing of her old van and anybody troubling the small claims court on such specious grounds wouldn't get past first base.

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - Brit_in_Germany

The florist is selling a business asset. VAT will have to be charged (according to the .gov site), so arguing it is not related to the business is not going to get you very far.

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - Avant

I agree, B in G. A florist selling their old van is a trade sale (assuming that the van has been used for delivering flowers etc), whereas selling their private car woudn't be, even if the proceeds were credited to the business as an increase in capital.

Where there is scope for a judge's interpretation of the law is in the implied term (in a trade sale) 'satisfactory condition'. The older the goods being sold, the further away from perfect condition that will mean; and the judge's job, as always in common law, is to uphold that which is 'reasonable'.

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - RobJP

I agree, B in G. A florist selling their old van is a trade sale (assuming that the van has been used for delivering flowers etc), whereas selling their private car woudn't be, even if the proceeds were credited to the business as an increase in capital.

Where there is scope for a judge's interpretation of the law is in the implied term (in a trade sale) 'satisfactory condition'. The older the goods being sold, the further away from perfect condition that will mean; and the judge's job, as always in common law, is to uphold that which is 'reasonable'.

Having seen as a magistrate (although this was bafore the CRA, so under SOGA) similar cases, I can confirm that the clerk's advice to the bench is that unless it is part of your main business and how you derive your profits, such a sale is not part of your business such as you'd be expected to comply with the same standards as a trader.

Basically, for something to be a part of your business, you need to be buying with the intention of selling on for a profit. So, for a florist, that would be flowers, etc.

A van that you bought 5 years ago, have done 50k miles in, and are now selling on for a third of what you paid for it, is not part of your business.

Private car sale agreement with 6 months warranty - SLO76
“A van that you bought 5 years ago, have done 50k miles in, and are now selling on for a third of what you paid for it, is not part of your business.”

Correct.