Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR?

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Sun 13 May 2018 19:58
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
Volkswagen Golf 1.4 125ps Se Nav
or
Seat Leon 1.4 150ps FR Tech

Both same age 2017 and under 8k miles. Leon has less.
Both DSG and petrol.
Seat has COD - cyclinder on demand and driver profiles.
Same price for both. Golf may ‘age’ better... and better interior.

Which would you go for and why?
I’m considering these two models.
Golf alittle more refined / quiet, and higher residuals but Seat very capable and more fun?
It’s tough. I like them both.

I’m buying car for long run / outright, so no pcp finance and changing in 3 years.

Any objective opinions welcome.
Thanks.

Edited by Elfinacide on 13/05/2018 at 20:02

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Sun 13 May 2018 20:22
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - badbusdriver

Both good cars as a manual, though the Seat's ride in FR spec might be a little firm. But i wouldn't have either with that DSG box, unless you were getting out of it before the warranty is up. They don't have a great reputation for reliability.

If you must have an automatic, go for something with a torque converter auto.

Edited by badbusdriver on 13/05/2018 at 20:27

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Sun 13 May 2018 21:18
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - RobJP

I'm rather confused by you 'buying for the long term', and yet 'changing it in 3 years'.

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Sun 13 May 2018 22:18
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
Maybe I didn’t word it clearly enough or you mis read it...Anyway, it’s a long term purchase. I will NOT be selling/changing after 3 years.

I need an automatic. I’ve looked at / researched a range of cars and I keep coming back to these 2 based on reviews and my personal prefs. Every car seems to have a draw back unless you have serious money - poor fuel economy, noise, lack of power, too expensive, lack of rear passenger space, crappy infotainment, crappy plastic interiors, high mileage cars with too much interior wear and tear etc etc etc..

I know from personal experience the DSG is good but IS proven to be UNreliable all too often. Not sure what to do but hope i get lucky.

I actually want to buy a 2017 Honda Jazz EX but it lacks power and the cvt is noisy once you hit open roads and motorway... Basically, i want a good all rounder. Most of my driving is short town trips but I want long journeys to be easy.

That’s the dilemma - what do I buy?
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Sun 13 May 2018 22:25
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
I know Honest John recommends the Mazda auto but the infotainment is out of date and the rear passenger space in the car is terrible from what I’ve seen - might as well make the cars 2 seaters. Mazda apparently drive good so I was interested but after a visit to the show room was put off.
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Sun 13 May 2018 22:27
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - bazza

Wouldn't something like a Mazda 2 or 3 auto, or a hybrid be a better bet for your useage and long term proposition?

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Sun 13 May 2018 22:32
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - landmarked

Of the two you have shortlisted, I would take the Seat and budget for an indefinite extended warranty / savings account in case of DSG troubles.

I would buy a Mazda 3 with 120bhp 2 litre and torque converter auto (I bought a 165bhp manual over the Leon FR, I much preferred the handling). I can't tell the difference between the rear space in this and my previous Golf; maybe the shape isn't as good if you are regularly carrying tall passengers in the back?

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Sun 13 May 2018 22:54
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
For Mazda - dated infotainment, not great rear space and not great fuel economy. Just my assessment.

Ford - don’t like look of fords and interior looks not so good - choice of plastics and generally don’t feel like place I want to spend time.

Honda - I like the civic and jazz but the automatic / cvt is considered poor on both cars. So rules them out.

3 cyclinder 1.0ltr with turbo cars seem to have to work hard out side of town - vibration and noise.

Hyundia Ionic hybrid is good but 20k for get pre reg and I think it’s too long a car. Psychologically a 20k car is too much.

Audi A3 - expensive and same DSG issue.

I currently have a 2007 Honda Jazz but it’s manual gearbox and has some rust and it’s just time to buy something modern and nice and refined.

Buying a car is pee’ing me off. I think 12k is a good budget but instead I’m looking at 17k cars to get some manufacture warranty and less wear and tear but still nothing really stands out - everything has some issue. At some I have to take the next step. Want to drive around UK over summer months...

Edited by Elfinacide on 13/05/2018 at 23:00

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Sun 13 May 2018 23:10
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - landmarked

Like you say, everything has some issue ... Buy the Leon or the Golf if those are the two which are speaking to you.

But if you're buying a VAG product for the long term, put some money aside every month for a rainy day fund.

We don't have any concrete information about the failure rates of the DSG boxes, particularly the "rumoured to be improved since 2016" DSG200 you are looking at. Maybe 1/20 boxes of these boxes will fail inside the 6 years you end up keeping the car... Keep some money aside and when nothing fails, put it towards the next one.

Only thing I would say - if you're keeping the car long term, any infotainment system will be dated soon enough.

Edited by landmarked on 13/05/2018 at 23:11

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Sun 13 May 2018 23:22
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
Thanks for your reply. I do plan to keep some money aside for the dsg.. if I go that way.

Infotainment - yes, I realise it’ll date but I’d like to start off with something that isn’t dated. It’s not massively important, just don’t want to buy into dated tech when I’m paying this kind of money.

I just want Apple CarPlay ideally.

Edited by Elfinacide on 13/05/2018 at 23:25

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Mon 14 May 2018 01:40
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Engineer Andy
For Mazda - dated infotainment, not great rear space and not great fuel economy. Just my assessment. Ford - don’t like look of fords and interior looks not so good - choice of plastics and generally don’t feel like place I want to spend time. Honda - I like the civic and jazz but the automatic / cvt is considered poor on both cars. So rules them out. 3 cyclinder 1.0ltr with turbo cars seem to have to work hard out side of town - vibration and noise. Hyundia Ionic hybrid is good but 20k for get pre reg and I think it’s too long a car. Psychologically a 20k car is too much. Audi A3 - expensive and same DSG issue. I currently have a 2007 Honda Jazz but it’s manual gearbox and has some rust and it’s just time to buy something modern and nice and refined. Buying a car is pee’ing me off. I think 12k is a good budget but instead I’m looking at 17k cars to get some manufacture warranty and less wear and tear but still nothing really stands out - everything has some issue. At some I have to take the next step. Want to drive around UK over summer months...

I feel you pain, mate: I've had exactly the same problem and deferred changing my car a year or so ago.

The VAG 1.4 TSi 150 ACT was a lovely engine (the 122hp version was actually fine as well) but I too wanted an auto this time (I own a manual Mazda3 saloon from 2006), so the DSG's poor reliability and hesistation issues put me off.

The Mazdas I tested (3 and CX-3) were good, but no 'wow' factor, and neither ticked some crucial boxes, such as the Mazda3 no longer being available as an auto for the saloon (at least the petrol versions, which I want), and the CX-3 having a rather small boot and a high price (very little in the way of discounts, often being more expensive the a comparable 3 even via brokers).

I didn't think much of the Volvo V40, which might meet your needs now that it may now come with a conventional TC auto isntead of Ford's Powershift box, but trying to source a higher-powered T3 is VERY difficult (122hp T2s, fine) - even dealers don't want to sell them, only T2s (and only upper spec models those with low profile tyres) and diesels.

Other than that, the Hyundai i30 does come with a reasonable performing 1.4T petrol, but does have a dual clutch auto - supposedly more reliable than the VAG and Ford units, but I just don't like them as a concept, especially as they are not designed for use in heavy traffic creeping forward like a TC box can (without a problem), but performance driving. The US, Canada and Australia do have a more powerful 1.6T petrol version and also a proper saloon (not the fastback on hard suspension up to 1.4T).

The new KIA Ceed will likely be similar to the i30 but with no sporty engine option, as seem in the Stonic vs the Kona (which in those countries I mentioned IS available in 1.6T form). I like the exterior styling of the Ionic, but its not cheap, that good a handler or quick, and the interior looks very 'plasticky' in grey. Its also a firm riding car. Its KIA sibbling is not exactly a looker though more practical.

I don't like the C-sector offerings from Toyota and Lexus as bland, uninvolving/slow to drive (I don't like CVTs - fine for pottering around slowly only) and not exactly stylish, but reliable and better dealers than any of the above lot (including Mazda, who are as variable as Fords - I'm having some 'issues' with my local one on a very basic thing). The C-HR is 'unusual' and handles well, but isn't quick and I think is going to be a 'marmite' car - you either love it or hate it, rather like the Nissan Juke, but more reliable.

The Honda Civic is now way too large (Accord sized) and has a CVT, but the engines are good and the looks are growing on me (nice interior except the stupid touch controls for the heater/fan/volume). A shame the top-spec Jazz (Sport 130) doesn't come with an auto option at all and isn't available at all in the HR-V (others are slow 1.5 non-turbos and CVTs).

I'm sticking with what I've got for now until something more to my liking comes along, especially with a TC auto box.

What I need is a Golf 3dr 1.5 TSi (1.4 as was) 150 ACT GT with climate control as standard (its only an option in the UK [standard on the continent]), running on 17in wheels max but with a Mazda TC auto box, Honda/Toyota reliability and dealerships/customer service, Hyundai/KIA ICE (Android auto) and warranty. Oh, and available for a lot less than £20k (like the Mazda3).

Not too much to ask? Hehehe ;-)

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Mon 14 May 2018 09:40
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
So I’m not alone... sad that this is the case.

The Volvo still has a push button BT public phone box alpha/numeric dialling input for the infotainment - I’m def not the target market for that. Just the look alone is bad. And I think fuel economy is at the lower end.

Maybe I’m being too picky but at this point it feels like car manufacturers are rubbish in every way - from cheating customers (health) with emissions and the whole dealer experience which is draining - they don’t want to do anything unless you are ready to buy. And aftercare they will do anything to avoid sorting a problem out.

Hyundia i30 is considered uninspiring and has low fuel economy, otherwise I like the styling. I already have a very uninspiring driving car so the bounce is to go something more ‘fun’. Not too much, just a bit.

I’m talking myself out of buying anything.... :-(

Edited by Elfinacide on 14/05/2018 at 09:41

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Mon 14 May 2018 19:25
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - PhilRW
The Honda Civic is being given a 1.6 Dtec engine mated with the 9 speed auto box as seen in the CRV this summer. The salesman also said the HRV will also have a turbo option with an automatic box from September. Either option could possibly suit your needs.....
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Sun 13 May 2018 22:37
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - SLO76
Wouldn’t touch a DSG or Powershift box myself unless you’re buying new or nearly new and offloading before the manufacturer warranty is up. Most used warranties won’t come close to covering the cost of putting one of these right when it does go wrong. The trade is aware of the risks and are pricing it in when offering on part ex’s.

Here’s where I’d be looking if you can’t stand the high revving nature of a CVT. though I would try a 1.2 T CVT Toyota Auris to see how you get on with it too but the Mazda 3 is better looking and nicer to drive anyway.



Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20180327497...4

Honda Civic is another great longterm bet. Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20180226409...9



Edited by SLO76 on 13/05/2018 at 22:41

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Sun 13 May 2018 22:53
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - argybargy

As I discovered a few months back, some garages are not only factoring in Powershift problems when assessing part ex values, but have actually gone further, and are refusing to take Powershift cars at all.

The proprietor of an indy where I test drove a CVT Jazz told me that a customer who had bought a Powershift Focus returned it to them because it had begun vibrating just days after she bought it, and that this was far from being the only case where this had happened. What broke the camel's back for that particular independent was that the Ford dealer they had used in the past to fix Powershift issues had now become far less helpful, and they were struggling to get them repaired under warranty.

As a result, they will no longer take Powershift cars in part ex.

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Sun 13 May 2018 22:59
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
The Auris is not meant to be fun to drive. Someone I know has one and said it’s true. So I discounted the Auris early on.

I’m not after a racing car but coming from a 2007 Honda Jazz I want something with alittle punch. Honda Jazz as correctly described as gutless. Nice car that served me well but ready for change,
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Sun 13 May 2018 23:11
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - argybargy

Its such a shame about the Jazz. I've owned one for just over 4 months, and its as perfect in every way as a small family car can be, except when you put your foot down. Why couldn't they give it just a teensy bit more oomph? Were they afraid that another 10 bhp would result in hundreds of pensioners burying themselves in brick walls and hedges, and heading for A and E with nosebleeds caused by the G forces?

It doesn't make sense to me to ruin such a good car by giving it a rubber band instead of an engine. I think the new model has a 1.5 engine that develops 120 bhp, which sounds more promising. So I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one of those when my ship comes in.

Edit: didn't see your post about the new Jazz with 130 bhp before posting the above, BBD. Wow..imagine hurtling around bends at the wheel of one of those, with the blue rinse crew in the back, all yelling like kids on a rollercoaster.

Edited by argybargy on 13/05/2018 at 23:13

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Sun 13 May 2018 23:09
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
I will revisit the Mazda and research the civic.
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Sun 13 May 2018 23:03
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - badbusdriver
Maybe I didn’t word it clearly enough or you mis read it...Anyway, it’s a long term purchase. I will NOT be selling/changing after 3 years. I need an automatic. I’ve looked at / researched a range of cars and I keep coming back to these 2 based on reviews and my personal prefs. Every car seems to have a draw back unless you have serious money - poor fuel economy, noise, lack of power, too expensive, lack of rear passenger space, crappy infotainment, crappy plastic interiors, high mileage cars with too much interior wear and tear etc etc etc.. I know from personal experience the DSG is good but IS proven to be UNreliable all too often. Not sure what to do but hope i get lucky. I actually want to buy a 2017 Honda Jazz EX but it lacks power and the cvt is noisy once you hit open roads and motorway... Basically, i want a good all rounder. Most of my driving is short town trips but I want long journeys to be easy. That’s the dilemma - what do I buy?

We are almost a year into our 3 year stint (wife's motability car) with a Honda Jazz 1.3 CVT EX, and i find it neither lacking in power or noisy on the open road.

The current shape Toyota Yaris is a very similar car in terms of space, not quite as spacious or practical (with the 'magic' rear seats), but not far short. Point being, since 2017 it has been available with a 1.5 (non hybrid) mated to the CVT which has a little more power (111bhp vs 102bhp) and torque (100lb/ft vs 91lb/ft) at lower revs than the Jazz, so you might want to have a test drive of one if you can. I know the Jazz is also now available this year with a 1.5 which is more powerful than the Yaris (130bhp), but it is only available in the sport trim, so the ride is likely to be pretty harsh, given the EX is quite firm as it is. The 1.5 is available in a variety of trims in the Yaris (i.e, with smaller wheels for a cushier ride).

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Sun 13 May 2018 23:17
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
Ok, I will test drive the 2017 Jazz EX 1.3 for myself - was thinking about it yesterday but I want some accelerating power and it won’t match the Leon. Let’s see - what’s good for you might not work for me. I’ve seen a lot of reviews on YouTube and they are balanced reviews and point out the cvt noise and lack of power.
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Sun 13 May 2018 23:45
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - badbusdriver

Horses for courses really, and there are certainly forum members with an extreme dislike of CVT equipped cars. I actually had quite a disagreement not that long ago with one in particular who was absolutely not prepared to accept my own findings regarding the time it takes for the jazz to accelerate from 30-70 mph. Which prompted me to to take and post a short clip on YouTube (look up Honda Jazz CVT). Of course the member in question still wouldn't accept it as it hadn't been done under proper conditions. You'll just have to take my word that it was done on a level road and what wind there was coming from the side!. I have a couple of theories as to why folk find them very sluggish. First one is that people get lazy through driving high torque turbo cars and are unused to needing the amount of throttle required to spur the Jazz into action. Second is that the Jazz's transmission is 'smart', in so far as it adapts to the way it is driven. So if you test drive a car which used to be owned by an old biddy who drove slowly, it will probably feel slower and more unresponsive than one driven by myself. That isn't to say I thrash it all the time, and you certainly don't need to thrash it to make swift progress!. But I did find after a month or so the Cvt seemed to be more in tune with what I wanted from it. Bottom line though is that I have no problem overtaking on single carriageway roads (and being in North East Scotland, that is what I drive on most often)

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Mon 14 May 2018 00:23
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - daveyK_UK

Avoid the DSG if you plan on keeping it out of warranty

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Mon 14 May 2018 00:36
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Avant

You have a problem, in that I can't think of a torque-converter automatic coupled with an engine under 2 litres that's going to give lively performance. TQ autos are more reliable, but they do reduce performance and economy compared with a manual.

I suggest you try - depending on the size you want - a Honda (Jazz or Civic), Toyota (Yaris or Auris) and Mazda (2 or 3), and decide whether you can live with any of them. If you can't, then go back to the SEAT or Golf, if they haven't already been sold, and try to get an extended warranty. Of the two, the SEAT is better value and has more of the performance that you;re looking for.

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Mon 14 May 2018 08:26
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - I'm a Pane

? Peugeot 308 Puretech 130 with EAT6 auto in GTLine trim?

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Mon 14 May 2018 09:44
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - geordie33

I swapped a Leon 1.4tsi nav for a Golf 1.4 nav dsg last year.

Both great cars.Leon was more fun to drive and totally dependable

Golf is classy and great to drive as well apart from being very economical (as was the Leon)

I know loads of people with DSGs and apart from 1 Octavia which had a minor software problem they have been excellent.

There is an anti VAG mantra on here but all I can say is that I have owned 8 VAG cars in the last 20 years and not one of them ever developed a fault.

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Mon 14 May 2018 09:55
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
Thanks for your input.

Having 8 VAG cars in 20 years suggests you’ve changed often, every 2.5 years, so never had to deal with any car over a longer period when issues are more likely to come up?

That said, I want to take a chance with the DSG. If the failure rate is 1/20 as another poster said, I’d take that gamble... but it could be higher/probably is higher than that - he said no concrete figures, if the 2016 gearbox has genuinely been tweaked that would be good...
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Mon 14 May 2018 10:07
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - geordie33

You are right to some extent but I rarely buy new and 2 of the cars were used for work clocking up more than 60k miles each with no repairs whatsoever.

HJ in answer to a question the other day stated that an independent had said the DSG had been improved in 2016 but a lot of my mates pre date that with no problems.

No doubt manual gear boxes and clutches fail as well sometimes?

Anyway good luck and I hope you enjoy whatever you decide to buy.

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Mon 14 May 2018 09:50
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Meteiro

We have a Peugeot 308 1.2 Auto. Cracking little engine, brilliantly quick with the sport button used and cheap as chips to run.

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Mon 14 May 2018 10:06
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - badbusdriver

If i had to get an automatic car from the 'Golf' segment, i'd have the Mazda at the top of the list. IMO it is the best looking car in its class, it is likely to be one of the most reliable, and going by what i have read, one of the best for ride/handling. Regarding your comments on interior space, they are somewhat contradictory to the Honest John review which says,

"As the new 3 is wider and has a longer wheelbase than the outgoing model, it's no surprise to learn that there's more interior room. A six-footer can sit behind another six-footer, although in the rear, hat room is slightly limited. But in the front, it's airy and has plenty of room, generally feeling higher up the food chain than a humble Golf-sector car. As for the boot - it offers a 350-litre capacity, which isn't bad considering the new car's shorter overhang. It does, however, trail the Golf by 30 litres."

Given you claim to be wanting something fun to drive, i'd have thought the Mazda's fully independent multilink rear suspension would be rather more important than the infotainment. Also, the potential repair cost for a broken DSG is going to considerably outweigh any extra fuel cost from the Mazda's poorer economy.

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Mon 14 May 2018 10:19
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
Good point about fuel cost vs repair costs. When I was in the Mazda showroom I sat in the back with the front set to my driving position. I’m 5 10 and broad shouldered / average and it was not spaciousness in the back for knees. I’ll go and have another look today as I have a day off. Although there is mentally momentum towards the Seat Leon at the moment with the amount of time I’ve been looking at it.... and I’m tired now with the whole buying exercise. I thought it would be easy buying in this price range but it’s not.

Last night I was more or less planning to buy the Seat Leon today if it was still there...

Edited by Elfinacide on 14/05/2018 at 10:23

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Mon 14 May 2018 10:53
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - badbusdriver
Good point about fuel cost vs repair costs. When I was in the Mazda showroom I sat in the back with the front set to my driving position. I’m 5 10 and broad shouldered / average and it was not spaciousness in the back for knees. I’ll go and have another look today as I have a day off. Although there is mentally momentum towards the Seat Leon at the moment with the amount of time I’ve been looking at it.... and I’m tired now with the whole buying exercise. I thought it would be easy buying in this price range but it’s not. Last night I was more or less planning to buy the Seat Leon today if it was still there...

Yes, definately a minefield!. The car we had before the Jazz was a Hyundai i30 turbo diesel auto. This was my wifes 1st auto, and it took me a bit of persuasion to convince her that she would find an auto more pleasant and enjoyable to drive than a manual due to her leg problems. So i really wanted a TC auto due to issues not specifically regarding reliablity (as we only keep each motablity car 3 years, and any repairs would be carried out without any arguments), but actually driveablity. Having read extensive owners reviews on automated manual gearboxes, both single and dual clutch, i was worried about all the reports of jerky gearchanges (not such a problem with DSG, in theory) but more worryingly, delayed throttle response. And i certainly didn't want to put my wife right off auto's again and not want to drive the car due to some near miss at a junction or roundabout because she went for a gap but by the time the car reacted, said gap was no longer there!. So we ended up going with the Hyundai, and it was a pleasant enough car for the 3 years. Comfy, refined, reasonably spacious and nothing went wrong.

We went for the Jazz next because we had recently moved to a narrow street in an older part of town. I was looking for something as spacious as possible but fairly narrow and the Jazz fitted the bill perfectly. It was really down to it or the Yaris, though i did like the look of the Mazda 2 (and its reviews), but it has lower set seats and a smaller boot. I was certainly wary of going for the CVT due to the overwhelmingly negative reports from the motoring press. But after digging a little deeper, i found plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest they were actually fine, especially the current electronically stepped versions such as those in the Jazz and Yaris. In fact my first post on the forum was to ask opinions of the CVT, which garnered a mixed response. My initial thoughts, reading between the lines, was that it would be fine for anyone who doesn't fancy themselves as a bit of a boy racer, and decided to go ahead with the Jazz. Which i have been very pleasantly surprised by, it has proven itself a brilliant little car, but one with a split personality. If you use small throttle openings it will hum along quietly and discreetly with little vigour, but push the throttle all the way down it lunges at the red line with real enthusiasm, really showing the (high revving) Honda engine heritage. No, it isn't a rocketship, and it certainly couldn't keep pace with a 150bhp Leon, but it feels much quicker than the official figures would have you believe, it is an absolute hoot on a twisty road being able to hold very high speeds through corners. Performance wise, the only downside (and this is only imortant if you enter into traffic light Grand Prix's on a regular basis) is the initial step off the line. The Hyundai would actually spin its wheels, the Jazz won't. But once past say 5-10mph and the revs start to climb, it's all good!.

Anyway, i hope you get something sorted out and whatever you get doesn't cause you any problems!

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Mon 14 May 2018 14:26
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Hugh Watt

? Peugeot 308 Puretech 130 with EAT6 auto in GTLine trim?

This, shirley. Estate version if you need more rear leg room. The auto box seems to be HJ's default choice (together with the Mazda).

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Mon 14 May 2018 18:16
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - skidpan

? Peugeot 308 Puretech 130 with EAT6 auto in GTLine trim?

This, shirley. Estate version if you need more rear leg room. The auto box seems to be HJ's default choice (together with the Mazda).

When we were looking at swapping the Leon hatch for a bigger car we checked out the 308 SW, the 1.2 130 PS looked to be a decent option. I had read that the SW (estate) had better rear legroom than the hatch. Well god help those who bought the hatch. My standard test is put the drivers seat in my position and sit in the rear passenger seat. If I am comfortable it meets my expectations. the Leon hatch was fine, the Fabia we have just bought is also fine, the 308 SW was pitiful, no way could I have ridden in the back behind me. If its better than the hatch only double amputees (and children) would fit in that.

The salesman could not understand what the issue was, totally lacking active brain cells.

It had a huge boot (no idea if it carried a spare, ran away before investigating).

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Mon 14 May 2018 19:58
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Hugh Watt

I tried out the rear seats in a 308SW. Seemed fine to me. And had a spare wheel.

Edited by Slow Eddie on 14/05/2018 at 20:00

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Mon 14 May 2018 12:57
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - skidpan

We had a Leon 140 PS TSi for 4 years, great car. We looked at Golfs but one to a similar spec was £5000 more (new - broker prices).

Would have bought another but we wanted a bigger car and the Skoda Superb fitted our needs better (another 1.4 TSi, 150 PS with COD this time).

But I would suggest you do not buy the DSG version, they are made of cheese. Get the manual and save money.

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Mon 14 May 2018 13:32
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
I need an auto due to long term knee trouble but I am equally tired of london traffic.
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Mon 14 May 2018 19:48
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - PhilRW
I’ve currently got a Mazda 3 2.0 petrol auto (tho currently looking for something bigger) It’s a nice drive but a bit firm over poor services. Done over 60000 miles now and only required some new tires, otherwise not a single issue.

My wife has a got a Golf (manual) it’s a nice car, definitely feels slightly more roomy and brighter than my Mazda and it has been a good car for her. I can see the appeal of it over the Mazda. But on my sel nav Mazda I got a lot more gadgets at a cheaper price than the equivalent spec Golf. On my 14 plate the Xenon head lights are superb which I wouldn’t have got on the Golf. I took a DSG Golf for a test drive and liked it a lot apart from one instance where the DSG seemed to delay kicking in from a start at a roundabout. It otherwise felt very nice but as you are aware it’s reportedly had a lot more problems than you will find from a torque converter.

I suppose you either pay your money and take a risk on a car which you prefer or take the safety first option on a car which your heart isn’t fully in but you know will offer peace of mind reliability in return.

The only other suggestion I could offer is the current Kia Ceed. There are some bargains about on them with the new model due out. The 17 plates have the new DCT box and it 2 trims upwards have the larger infortainment screens with satNav. A lot of dealers have been offering 0% finance on them with a full 7 year warranty. The only downside is its a 1.6 diesel which it doesn’t side like you particularly need.
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Mon 14 May 2018 20:20
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - Elfinacide
I think I need to accept some compromises - whether that’s some power, or space or whatever. I’m going back to my original budget of 12k roughly. Forget DSG.

As long as it’s a modern automatic in great condition I’ll take it. I’ll test drive the Jazz and Mazda and 308 etc.

Can get Mazda 3 decent ones for around this price, I’ll except it won’t tick every box but probably most - reliable automatic, enough power, decent drive, modern, good looking and road presence.... I’ll accept the infotainment :( anything is an improvement over my 2007 Jazz.

I went to see the Seat Leon again today but I couldn’t buy it. Mainly the money... I guess around 12k is my ceiling (psychological).

I’ll update on what I eventually get. Any more suggestions are welcome.

Edited by Elfinacide on 14/05/2018 at 20:20

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Mon 14 May 2018 22:58
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - KB.

Can only say what I would look at if getting rid of the Yeti (which isn't imminent and we would both very likely miss it quite a lot).

A Vitara with a TC gearbox (we've covered this before and came to the conclusion the petrols have TC and the diesels DCT)

A Mazda CX3 with the TC gearbox.

The Kia Venga and Hyundai ix20 had TC gearboxes in the past, and may still have them, but something tells me Kia and Hyundai are moving to twin clutch. Both steady and unremarkable and probably sensible but both tall er than the equivalent hatchback - which is preferable here.

The GolF SV and BMW 2 series Active Tourer ought to appeal but are maybe too pricey for the OP's budget.

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Mon 14 May 2018 23:08
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - landmarked
I guess around 12k is my ceiling (psychological).

That instinct has served me well on several occassions!

For 12K you can just about get one of the mildy facelifted MY17 Mazdas with slightly better refinement and updated interior (same infotainment I'm afraid...)

link

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Mon 14 May 2018 23:29
Seat Leon - Buy a Golf Mk7 Face Lift or Seat Leon FR? - PhilRW
I guess around 12k is my ceiling (psychological).

That instinct has served me well on several occassions!

For 12K you can just about get one of the mildy facelifted MY17 Mazdas with slightly better refinement and updated interior (same infotainment I'm afraid...)

link

That looks a good buy to me. If you do enough journeys to justify a diesel there’s a few Kia Ceed’s knocking about at decent prices. And with these Kia approved cars you get a full 7 year warranty. They have the newer DCT boxes as now seen in various Kia and Hyundai models. Nice and smooth with very few problems reported. www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20180405526...1 Personally I’d probably still go for the Mazda but the Kia feels a bit more spacious and brighter and obviously has the benefit of the excellent 7 year warranty.
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