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Any - Engine stop start technology - scot22

I am neurotic. A number of cars I see have stop start engines for fuel efficiency. Does this result in problems for time taken moving off from, for example, traffic lights and more importantly emerging from a junction after being stationary ?

Are there differences in the technology used by different manufacturers ?

Is it just one more thing to end up with expensive repairs ?

Any comments appreciated.

Any - Engine stop start technology - RT

My Touareg is the first S/S car I've had - it takes some getting used to - the brake switch which is used as a signal seems to be a double switch so it's possible the release the pedal pressure slightly to fire the engine up while still maintaining enough pedal pressure to stop the autobox creeping forward.

Now with practice, by restarting the engine on the red/amber I can get away marginally before the green lights up - equally at busy junctions I can keep the engine running ready to sprint for a gap.

I doubt that it cuts my personal fuel usage as I'm rarely in heavy traffic - if it was a cost-option I wouldn't choose it.

My starter motor is clearly different to anything I've had before as it fires the engine up quicker than previous cars. The battery is an expensive gel-type, designed to last 5 years instead of the normal 3 - I have always bettered the old 3 years considerably in the past, this one is too new to know.

Any - Engine stop start technology - Ben 10
The Ford cars I've had it fitted to has a button option to switch it off. So the engine runs continually.
Any - Engine stop start technology - Engineer Andy

I think so do Mazdas (I saw what looked like an off switch for their iStop on a photo). I think sometimes they could be quite intrusive and, frankly, worthless, especially in hot conditions when the engine would have to turn on and off a lot in heavy traffic to keep the A/C running if it were switched on.

Any - Engine stop start technology - Cyd

I'm surprised the aftermarket 'tuning' companies haven't started offering software mods for defeating stop start (BTW in automotive engineering the proper term is 'running standby').

Any - Engine stop start technology - scot22

Many thanks for these informative posts.

Any - Engine stop start technology - craig-pd130

Personally, I don't like stop/start and now I automatically press the switch to disable it when starting my car, without even thinking about it. I'm never stationary at a junction / lights for more than one cycle anyway, so the fuel saving (or extra emissions, looking at it the other way) would be tiny and barely measureable anyway.

I can't imagine it makes any real difference to component life over the lifespan of the car - after all, the ECU only allows the stop/start to work if certain criteria are met (engine operating temp, is the DPF regenerating, etc) - but it just grates against my old notions of mechanical sympathy etc to have the engine stopping and starting every couple of minutes.

Any - Engine stop start technology - scot22

That's how I'm thinking. I wonder since I don't have a car with stop/start should I avoid. How reliable is disabling mechanism etc ( as I said earlier I'm neurotic ) ?

Any - Engine stop start technology - bazza

Avoid it if you can. Batteries are double the price at least and changing them is not always straightforward. The technology exists for the benefit of manufacturers getting through emissions testing, rather than for any driver benefits.

Any - Engine stop start technology - RT

Many cars with S/S have a button to disable it - some Euro 5 cars stay disabled or can be disabled using diagnostic software but Euro 6 cars need the button pressed every time - they have to use it as their certification was done using it.

Any - Engine stop start technology - gordonbennet

Likewise, my only interest in stop/start is finding the button that turns it off, chances of me ever owning a car fitted with it is fortunately remote.

SS isn't not alone in that mind, i had to drive a 65 plate lorry a few weeks ago, and had to turn off several features to make the thing something approaching driveable, glad i've only got another 5 years to go...

...well unless the pension goal posts get shifted in the meantime, and i'm surprised the PM hasn't threatened that among other multiple disasters including world war three should we dare to not do as we're told.

Any - Engine stop start technology - scot22

Usual excellent help from the forum - much appreciated. I am putting S/S along with electronic handbrake as eliminating cars from consideration.

Any - Engine stop start technology - RT

Usual excellent help from the forum - much appreciated. I am putting S/S along with electronic handbrake as eliminating cars from consideration.

Mine has both - using them as eliminators would have left a much inferior choice - they wouldn't be my choice but not deal breakers.

Any - Engine stop start technology - Engineer Andy

I wouldn't eliminate cars from consideration just because they have stop-start systems (quite a lot now do, rather limiting your choices), as if they can be (easily) switched off, then you're no worse off, and besides, I don't think you should never use a non-critical issue like that as an arbitrary 'red line', discounting other factors as well (especially if the system can be easily turned off manually). Some systems are ok, others less so. Best to read HJ's car-by-car reviews (especially the 'Good & Bad' sections), owners' reviews and the test drives.

Fair enough about the electronic parking brakes, as generally they far more bad press and you don't have an alternative to using them. Probably best if you see how they (stop-start systems) worked on a test drive, especially if in all/most other respects a car was to your liking.

Any - Engine stop start technology - gordonbennet

SS isn't not alone

Dear Lord, my typos are getting worserer and worserer, now into double negatives.

Any - Engine stop start technology - scot22

Thanks for advice. I have been told I sometimes react too strongly to issues !

Electronic handbrake though still a definite dealbreaker.

Any - Engine stop start technology - RT

Thanks for advice. I have been told I sometimes react too strongly to issues !

Electronic handbrake though still a definite dealbreaker.

They can be troublesome, but then can so much on modern cars - my answer is to only change cars when the manufacturer no longer extends the warranty, so always under warranty.

I find the automatic nature of my electronic handbrake means that I rarely set it myself.

Any - Engine stop start technology - RichT54

I've had two vehicles with stop/start, a CR-V and my current A3. In both of them you could disable stop/start by pressing a button, but the system in both is automatically re-enabled the next time you get in the car.

The override button in the CR-V was conveniently next to the gear lever so I tended to always turn it off. In the A3 I have to stretch across the dashboard to reach it (wonder if it is closer to the driver in LHD?) so don't tend to turn it off unless I get stuck in a traffic queue. Sometimes when the system has stopped the engine, the car will restart itself if it, for example, determines the A/C needs a boost - which can be a bit of a surprise when you are not expecting it.

One other thing to consider is, if the car has a turbo, I thought it was advisable to let the engine idle for a short while before turning it off. However, the stop/start system just turns it off instantly.

Any - Engine stop start technology - gordonbennet

One other thing to consider is, if the car has a turbo, I thought it was advisable to let the engine idle for a short while before turning it off.

Is the right answer, and those vehicles that are serviced sensibly, and allowed to warm up and cool down reasonably almost never suffer a turbo failure.

Any - Engine stop start technology - Theophilus

"One other thing to consider is, if the car has a turbo, I thought it was advisable to let the engine idle for a short while before turning it off. However, the stop/start system just turns it off instantly."

Yes ... but if the engine is hot, and turbo needs time for cooling, stop-start is automatically disabled (at least on my Toyota Verso), so this needn't be a concern.

I'm often left sitting through 1 or more cycles of traffic lights before getting through on green, so happy to hear S/S switch off engine, always restarts immediately I depress clutch.

Any - Engine stop start technology - Engineer Andy

Not a surprise ethat a Japanese car has an automatic disable feature the stop-start systems on turbocharged cars - to me, that's the sort of 'logical thinking' on the engineering side they are renowned for. I wonder if their European counterparts have thought of this. In a way, having it surely (partially at least) negates the usefullness of the stop-start system, given most 'stops' at traffic lights are well under a minute.

I think rather than using 'gimicky' technology like this, cars of the future (before full battery-electric etc come into their own and are affordable/fully usable over long trips) will be more like the supercars that have an IC engine to recharge the batteries, which in turn power the car's electric motors to give motive power, and will automatically kick in and out when the battery power reserve level gets low, whatever the car/driver is doing. it will, though, probably take away some of the 'thrill' of motoring without the 'roar' of the engine when you pull away at speed etc, unless they include the 'fake' engine sounds!

Any - Engine stop start technology - RT

Not a surprise ethat a Japanese car has an automatic disable feature the stop-start systems on turbocharged cars - to me, that's the sort of 'logical thinking' on the engineering side they are renowned for. I wonder if their European counterparts have thought of this. In a way, having it surely (partially at least) negates the usefullness of the stop-start system, given most 'stops' at traffic lights are well under a minute.

Clever maybe, but not the preserve of the Japanese!

I guess all cars prevent S/S activation under a whole host of conditions, mine certainly does - and the cooling fans/pump continue running after the engine is switched off to manage the water-cooled turbo and autobox.

Any - Engine stop start technology - Avant

Agree absolutely with the majority view. S-S is particularly irritating on an automatic unless you get into the habit of disabling it every time. With a manual you can dip the clutch, for example when stopping at a 'give way' junction, and avoid it stopping, but an automatic will stop anyway.

I only use S-S when there's a prolonged stop, such as at those infuriating 19th-century throwbacks, level crossings.

Any - Engine stop start technology - Smileyman

having test driven a few cars with S/S I've come to realise it's something I could live with - but I do have concerns about the long term reliability of the system, say after 10 years will the system fail and if so leave one stranded at the front of the queue as the lights go green!

(years ago had problems with starting system for Nissan Bluebird, needed new part, at my expense)

Any - Engine stop start technology - scot22

Thanks again for all the posts.

I now appreciate it shouldn't be a deal breaker but I will avoid it if possible. Even though it limits choice.

Why aren't the views of drivers listened to more ?

It also seems to me these innovations are fine for people who own cars from new and keep for the warranty years. Others pick up the bills later : but don't suffer the depreciation of course - swings and roundabouts.

Probably too much data and too many variables but it might be helpful to know the optimum age to buy a car if you can't buy new. Mind you that knowledge would probably be reflected in price !

Any - Engine stop start technology - gordonbennet

64 thou dollar question Scot, why do people who buy used cars out of warranty always want the top spec one laden to the gunwales with every electronic toy available at the time, and preferably if its a VW group car with a DSG box to boot, fully loaded i believe is the dealer spiel.

I don't know the answer to the best age to buy at any more, i do know my own best timeline of cars, those designed in the 80's and 90's and built up till about 2005 depending on make are my first choice, but that isn't quite what you asked and only really valid for those who mainly DIY service.

If a more normal person wanted a fair crack of the whip for reliability and value for money in a modern car then either a up to 2 year old Kia bought well from a car supermarket such as Motorpoint with a bombproof dealer history, or a nearly new from a Kia dealer with the 7 year warranty restarted from sale date as believe does happen, one could do far worse than that...so hows about a Kia Ceed or Optima for you Scot?

Any - Engine stop start technology - RT

If you focus on manufacturer's warranty and value for money, then a 1-year old Kia kept to the end of it's 7-year warranty would take some some beating - but Hyundai/Kia are both gradually moving upmarket so they're no longer cheap to buy - and you DO need to check that the warranty hasn't been invalidated in any way.

Some brands will extend the original warranty, on the same terms, for a price - you'd need to research their websites if you have a good idea what sort of model you want.

Any - Engine stop start technology - scot22

I am technically challenged so depend on good quality garage. Not daft enough to risk my or anybody's life on a car maintained by me . O.K to wash it. So not able to look after older car.

I have not been in a Kia or Hyundai so will have a look. Despite my aversion to more things to go wrong quite fancy an automatic but again expense and reliability.

We are relatively comfortable financially so not significantly limited in choice but do not want to fritter money ( on an automatic ?)

Any - Engine stop start technology - RT

IMO, conventional automatics are more reliable than manuals, no clutch to wear old, but on the odd occasion they go wrong they aren't cheap to repair - new-fangled automatics, eg DSGs, don't have as good a reputation.

An automatic will cost more to buy, but worth more when you sell it, and fuel consumption won't be as good but the difference is much less than it used to be.

Most brands offer a mix of DSGs and conventional autoboxes.

Any - Engine stop start technology - gordonbennet

I have not been in a Kia or Hyundai so will have a look. Despite my aversion to more things to go wrong quite fancy an automatic but again expense and reliability.

Had various TC autos for over 40 years, the only one to ever give a moments grief was the one in my mk3 Zodiac and that was after several banger races and was severely battered (i was young and even more stupid then) and it still went out to its doom in reverse, that had been my tow car previously pulling around 150% of its own weight again, the mk4 Zodiac that followed it again auto was also trouble free despite extensive heavy towing at speed.

The rest all TC, avoiding certain european makes, have been just as bomb proof, including the two current auto Japanese 4x4's we run, but all get oil changes shortly after we buy, its neglecting servicing which kills most off...i suggest to give advice such as sealed for life (pause for manic laugh) by the manufacturer who warrants it for only three years a good ignoring.

Really do not like how automated manual and to a lesser extent twin clutch (DSG) boxes take up power and hesitate at junctions, had my fill of the automated manuals in lorries over hundreds of thousands of miles so wouldn't entertain a car with one.

Edited by gordonbennet on 16/05/2016 at 07:03

Any - Engine stop start technology - Metropolis.

The first thing i do is deactivate it when i have to use a car fitted with it

Any - Engine stop start technology - daveyjp

On my third car with it. First did 50,000 mles and no problems. It stops, you dip the clutch and it starts again.

However the Mercedes system is quicker to restart than the Subaru system when using the clutch - Mercedes use the Bosch modified alternator for restarts and it is very quick.

The Subaru system is slower on start with the clutch so you need to ensure it has started before engaging gear. However the Subaru will restart if the accelerator is pressed slightly (no option in a manual Merc) and this is quicker.

Any - Engine stop start technology - scot22

Running out of words to express how much I appreciate and value the advice given here. I have discovered how little, despite 40 plus years of motoring I know in this area.

Any - Engine stop start technology - primus 1

Well I'm obviously in a minority as I like s/s in fact it's my second car with it ( fiesta ecoboost) as for the turbo, I have found it will not cut out if the car has been on a longish fast run, I assume to allow the turbo oil to cool sufficiently before it stops the engine, although I believe these are water cooled as I suspect most modern ( petrol) turbos are.

Any - Engine stop start technology - scot22

Thanks primus its good, and interesting, to hear different views. I'm a bit of a dinosaur !

Any - Engine stop start technology - barney100

I'd like to permanently disable my slk stop start, I can't abide it. Any one know how to do it?

Any - Engine stop start technology - gordonbennet

Can your MB indy do it for you via STAR?

Any - Engine stop start technology - nailit

My tuppennyworth;

I had reservations on the s/s when purchasing my Mazda 6 petrol sport last year, but the fact you have a switch to deactivate or if you keep the clutch depressed, I went ahead.

I have become converted, rather than switch it off you can keep the clutch depressed to cancel, and most of my driving style is so.

The techy bit is something I like, (yes more to fail and cost but heyho and capacitors generally are pretty basic and robust components) it uses a large capacitor to store electric generated when decelerating or braking, then uses this to fire up the starter motor. Together with 'managing' to stop the pistons in a way to re-use the very high compression stored in any piston. Apparently the 2.0 ltr petrol is the highest compression engine used by any mass manufacturer. Whoopy do, I know some peeps worry about H Gasket failure!

IIRC compression is 12:1 where F1 race cars are/were 10:1 and diesels (which I thought were higher than traditional petrol equivalents) are 8:1. But I may be wrong, there are always exceptions.

The capacitor power is also used to run all the electrics including air con, and to extend the few minutes you have when stopped I switch off air con say when in a traffic jam for long periods. I have found it works very well and you get a readout of cumulative minutes 'stopped' and IIRC a saving measurement of fuel?? I think you can reset this measurement but I think mine has been reading from new.

Sorry for long message, just trying to be helpful, anyone finding fault can .... well just cool it.

Any - Engine stop start technology - gordonbennet
IIRC compression is 12:1 where F1 race cars are/were 10:1 and diesels (which I thought were higher than traditional petrol equivalents) are 8:1. But I may be wrong, there are always exceptions

Most Diesels run between 15 and 20+ : 1 ratio. I doubt if you'd get one to ignite at 8:1 without pre heating.

I don't think too many of us have a problem with SS being fitted, its the default on instead of optional on only when selected that gets on most nerves, there's more than enough fiddling with this and that these days already, all i want to do is open door, key in, belt on, start engine, select D or 1st, release handbrake and drive away, i do not want to be poke nosing about trying to switch gimmicks off that i never wanted in the first place.

Any - Engine stop start technology - scot22

Many thanks for the posts. Its great to have differing views on the thread, especially from knowledgeable people. I value the time people give to make informative posts, long messages appeciated.

Any - Engine stop start technology - RT

I'd like to permanently disable my slk stop start, I can't abide it. Any one know how to do it?

If it's Euro 6 it shouldn't be possible, even with full dealer diagnostic kit, as it's been Type-Approved with it working - it's technically illegal, like disabling the EGR or removing the cat (or DPF on a diesel) - but I'm not sure how it could be detected.

Any - Engine stop start technology - RobJP

I do know that it can be coded out on BMWs. But actually being able to do it is a bit geeky high-tech for me.

So I'd imagine yes, it could be done. But you'd need an owner's forum, and then someone highly capable or yourself to be highly capable to do it.

There is always the risk of 'bricking' your software too - which means what it says - basically something isn't correct, and it all becomes as useful as a brick.

Any - Engine stop start technology - Theophilus

I'd like to permanently disable my slk stop start, I can't abide it. Any one know how to do it?

If it's Euro 6 it shouldn't be possible, even with full dealer diagnostic kit, as it's been Type-Approved with it working - it's technically illegal, like disabling the EGR or removing the cat (or DPF on a diesel) - but I'm not sure how it could be detected.

My Verso 1.6 D4-D is Euro 6 and has a press button on dash to disable Stop-start - but most of the time I now leave it switched on.

Any - Engine stop start technology - RT

I'd like to permanently disable my slk stop start, I can't abide it. Any one know how to do it?

If it's Euro 6 it shouldn't be possible, even with full dealer diagnostic kit, as it's been Type-Approved with it working - it's technically illegal, like disabling the EGR or removing the cat (or DPF on a diesel) - but I'm not sure how it could be detected.

My Verso 1.6 D4-D is Euro 6 and has a press button on dash to disable Stop-start - but most of the time I now leave it switched on.

As does my Euro 6 Touareg - but unlike earlier versions, it needs to be actioned each time the engine is started.

Any - Engine stop start technology - brum

I happened to look in my Octavia mk2 user manual searching for oil capacity info and caught sight of a warning about connecting a charger to vehicles fitted with stop start. It said "under no circumstance must the negative terminal of the charger be connected to the negative terminal of the battery.It must be connected directly to the vehicles earth connection"

I can see all sorts of damage being done when the battery runs flat or gets old and someone tries to charge or jump start it.

Any - Engine stop start technology - RT

The battery in my Touareg is hidden deeply under the passenger seat - but there are terminal posts under the bonnet for such purposes - and for operating the supplied tyre compressor.