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Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - GeoffC

What do people think about the new Tyre labeling standards?

I talked to some guys in a Tyre shop and for them it is an additional hassle as they have to inform the customer of the ratings and supply additional advice and information if asked. Now I know purchasing tyres and discerning what is and isn't a good choice is a bit of a 'Black art' (sorry about the pun!) - so I initially felt that maybe the labeling is a good idea, and maybe it is - for the majority of Jo and Joanne Public who don't know any different - they can now purchase their tyres in the same way as they buy a Washing machine or a fridge as the labels are the same format.

If you are like and overthink too many things - then these labels can only be a rough guidline - I still feel the need to cross check as many review / test sites as I can find!!

There is one aspect that I think has surfaced, however, and that is the rolling resistance. With this new greener conscious world we live in it is becoming something we should consider besides all the other aspects. The vast majority of normal tyres get an 'E' rating for rolling resistance - with only a few rising up to a 'C' and many as low as' F' or even 'G'. Now this has come to the attention of the public, manufacturers are going to be trying to get a better rating in this area which is a challenge as it usually means a bit of compromise on the wet grip ability.

As far as the Wet grip and Noise ratings - I have checked some out- obviously tyre size may cause variation - but when I look on review sites to compare - some of the 'C' rated tyres for wet grip are generally getting better reviews than some of the 'B' and there does seem to be a bit of overlap - also one brand that is getting 'A' for wet grip and braking is definately not as grippy as some of the 'B' rated other makes it would seem.

In my opinion - the labels are merely a rough guide.

Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - unthrottled

I take the reviews with a pinch of salt. How many of the reviewers can quantitively ascertain the differences in the limit of wet and dry traction or stopping distance in the snow between two brands of tyres? Not many.

The biggest difference in changing tyres will be going from 2mm tread depth to 8mm. by the time you've worn the new tyres in you'll have forgotten what the old ones were like.

Reviews probably have as much to do with consumer expectation as anything else.

I think A-G ratings are facile. Rather like the traffic light system in food labelling they are aimed at the lowest common denominator.

You don't need to know which tyre is the "best" in each field; you need to know if your chosen tyre is good enough overall. That means that you need to know the difference between an "A" rated tyre and a "G" rated one. Which the labelling system doesn't tell you.

With this new greener conscious world we live in it is becoming something we should consider besides all the other aspects

This only really applies to tyres with a new tread pattern. As the tread wears down all tyres become low rolling resistence! If this is your primary concern, just buy a second hand tyre!

Edited by unthrottled on 23/10/2012 at 18:14

Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - Engineer Andy

Looking at the review sites, I find that most tyres perform completely differently from one vehcile to the next, even those that are quite similar. One thing to bear in mind is that the tyre review sites lump all the reviews about a particular tyre together, including all the different size variants. The best thing is to search for reviews for the tyres of your car's size and for your make/model (or at least a similar one from another make), and if possible, one where the reviewer states they drive in a similar manner to yourself. How full a review makes a lot of difference as well - reviewing a tyre after using it for 1000 miles will give little insight into the following 14000, etc.

The "formal" reviews/tests in magazine cannot also be completely relied upon, especially given the wide variances in the test results for the same tyres (my new Dunlop SP Sport FastResponse 205/55 R16s have been 2nd and 7th in similar tests (from different magazines) with the almost the same groups of alternative tyres - go figure! I think it depends often on the car they use for the test - it may be suited to some tyres better than others.

Regarding the A-G EU "test" ratings, I just hope they are not as "accurate" as the EU mpg figures quoted for new cars - I think realistically you'll only notice a mjor difference between tyres that are at least 3 letters different in the grouping. One thing to not is that I read somewhere that the "D" rating is void for cars for some reason, so a "C" is only one up from an "E" rating.

Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - Smileyman

I wonder how many people are going to be worried about the noise of a car tyre ... especially as the label refers to 'external noise'.

Personally, I'm more concered about safety (stopping distance, behaviour in wet etc) and secondly about fuel consumption, as well as purchase price of course. (Note how external noise is not in my thought pricess).

Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - bathtub tom

I think these labels may be rubbish.

I recently bought a couple of new tyres for the front of one of my cars, it's got 12" wheels (try finding 165/70/12's). The only things I could get were chinese ditch-finders. They're fully marked with all the current symbols. One's marked M&S, the other ain't despite being identical in appearance!

Driving up a local hill, in the wet, I got wheel-spin in second - in a KIA Pride!

Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - unthrottled

I agree. I dug around as to the testing conditions and, oh yes, the familiar 25C ambient temperature. When rubber is nice and soft, oil is relatively thin and batteries are at their optimum performance. Shame that when you fire your car up in the morning, it has been nicely cold soaked from overnight temperatures and the temperature is more like 10C.

Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - RT

I wonder how many people are going to be worried about the noise of a car tyre ... especially as the label refers to 'external noise'.

Personally, I'm more concered about safety (stopping distance, behaviour in wet etc) and secondly about fuel consumption, as well as purchase price of course. (Note how external noise is not in my thought pricess).

The difference between the quietest and noisiest tyres can be quite significant - but like many, I'm not concerned about external noise.

The wet grip test is useful although the difference between grades is small, even smaller when some of the intermediate grades aren't used.

The economy test is pointless as the car itself and driving style will have much more effect on economy.

The main thing missing is wear rate - if this were tested on a standardised basis, we could assess the cost/wear ourselves. The Americans have their wear figures in their UTQG but these aren't consistent across manufacturers.

Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - GeoffC

Noise is not a big issue- rather a mild consideration - my car is supposedly slightly noisy - but I haven't really noticed.

Stopping and handling particularly in the Wet has to be top priority. They could do also with a Dry handling ratings. where do you stop though..? Wear is relevent to a lot of distance drivers...

Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - RT

Noise is not a big issue- rather a mild consideration - my car is supposedly slightly noisy - but I haven't really noticed.

Stopping and handling particularly in the Wet has to be top priority. They could do also with a Dry handling ratings. where do you stop though..? Wear is relevent to a lot of distance drivers...

I agree that wet grip is important.

Dry grip isn't important on public roads - if you're that close to the limit, what happens when you suddenly find a wet patch?

Cost and wear have to be considered together, not on their own - I'd happily pay 2x for tyres that last 3x as long - or vice-versa.

Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - unthrottled

They could do also with a Dry handling ratings

As RT notes, most tyres have more than adequate dry performance. The difference between Linglongs and premium tyres only becomes relevant in the cold and wet.

Hard wearing tyres are not appealing to me. Most of the very cheap tyres are long lasting. The low wear being a side effect of horrible hard, noisy compounds that have awful wet grip.

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - amalberba

Choosing tires for your car can get confusing if you want to upgrade to an alternate tire size and performance. A rule of thumb with most reputable tire dealers is that you should never go down in tire variables, but you can always go up. For example, if the car's recommended tire from the manufacturer indicates a designated speed rating, you can purchase an aftermarket tire with a higher speed rating, but don't buy one with a lower speed rating.

Edited by Avant on 10/11/2012 at 23:46

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - Collos25

Autobild this week have done an investigation into the so called labelling and found its a big big swindle they have produced five points were the label is all but useless.

The main point is the label is not policed and manufacturers can put what they want.

They tested many tyres against the labels and none came anywhere near .

Winter tyres were an absolute joke from what they really did and what the label said.

The stopping distances were a complete fabrication both in the wet and the dry.

The Autobild have approached the German office that deals with standards but so far no reply

Autobild Nr.49 7.2012

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - RT
Winter tyres were an absolute joke from what they really did and what the label said.

The stopping distances were a complete fabrication both in the wet and the dry.

Winter tyres aren't include in the new EU Tyre Labelling Regulations because of their specialised nature.

Dry performance isn't tested for the new regulations.

Seems this Autobild article has as many errors as the scheme it's attacking.

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - Collos25

I very much doubt if the AUTOBILD has got it wrong.

With winter tyres if you read the article the dispute was with the manufacturers own figures.

They tested all the manufacturers figures not just those they cared to put on the label.

Read before you critise and then if you have a dispute by all means complain.

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - RT

My bad - it's only studded tyres that aren't tested.

Winter tyres are tested at the same temperature as summer tyres - there's no value in testing tyres at temperatures they not designed to be used in.

The new EU Tyre labelling has no provision for dry test results.

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - Collos25

Exactly,

The labels are worthless at best.

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - unthrottled

I've come to a similar conclusion. I'm not particularly fussed about dry ratings because the difference between the best and the worst tyre on dry tarmac isn't huge in absolute terms and if you unintentionally run out of grip in the dry, your tyres are the least of your driving problems.

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - bathtub tom

I recently bought a pair of new tyres, they've got this labelling. One of them's marked M+S and the other ain't. They're identical and both carp.

Not much option when you've got 12" wheels!

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - Collos25

Some of the winter tyres for sale in Germany make Ling Long look good I would not put them on a lawn mower.

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

Some cars even a boggo looking Focus, have enough painful tyre noise to make me cringe when they drive by. Really noticed a big noise range when waiting for a bus a few years ago.

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - Hamsafar

M+S marking (US) just means there is a 3:1 ratio of rubber and grooves.

How useless is that?

I agree the tyre labels are rubbish. Some ditchfinder get C C ratings on a par with premium grade tyres as they are all self-certified.

re: Applies to all - New Tyre Labels - GeoffC

Well maybe, in time, these ratings will be tightened up on - for now I think they are, at very best, a kind of general indication only and at worst totally useless and misleading.

The truth is most likely somewhere inbetween - nothing beats word of mouth and the testimony of peoples 1st hand experiences though