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So what about changing the filter? Don't think I've ever owned a car where the filter could only be sensibly got at from underneath.
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On our 04 Renault Scenic 1.9DCi the only practical way of removing the filter is from below.
I've seen several recommendations from manufacturers not to use suction as not all old oil is removed and the new oil gets contaminated. AFAIK Its best to have the engine hot, and then drain through the sump.
When the OP says they don't have the facilities, presumably they mean no off-road parking, or no jacking facilities? I'm pretty sure I do the Scenic with the wheels on the ground, just takes a bit of stretching. Again I've seen recommendations on some engines that the car is level when draining to ensure all is removed.
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Hot engine - suction pump - when the sump's fairly empty, slide a tray underneath, remove drain plug and washer (remember to get a new washer) and unscrew filter and drain the final dregs out. Leave to drain for 15 - 20 minutes and reverse process. Simples.
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The theory is that the car should be on the level as the sump plug is designed to be at the lowest point on the engine. If you jack up so that the plug is still at the lowest point then you will be ok. The engine oil should be hot so that it runs quicker, undoing the plug and moving it away so tha the oil rushes out purging any heavy contaminants with it. Part of any oil change should also include a filter change at the same time. The filter is there to trap most of the contaminants found in the oil, if it gets blocked there is a bypass route for the oil which means all the contaminants stay in the oil causing damage to the engine.
The dipstick tube never reaches to the bottom of the sump so using this method always leaves some old oil in there. It's a matter of how happy you are to leave this in there by using this method. Any heavy contaminants will stay in the bottom of the sump, the oil pump pick up point is usually quite close to the bottom so it is likely to pick up what you leave in there as well.
Hope this helps you to decide.
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>>The dipstick tube never reaches to the bottom of the sump
Really! What do you base that statement on?
>>using this method always leaves some old oil in there.
You will always leave some old oil in the engine, regardless of what method you use. I had one with an OHC that sat in a bath of oil.
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"The dipstick tube never reaches to the bottom of the sump
Really! What do you base that statement on?"
On the fact that I have stripped, overhauled and rebuilt many engines.
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Edited by jacks on 29/06/2012 at 11:08
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Non of the DIY peolple have mentioned where they get rid of the old oil.
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Non of the DIY peolple have mentioned where they get rid of the old oil.
The local council tip. I look after four cars and take it there every couple of years. I understand some people mix it with creosote for shed treatment.
My local one also takes car tyres. Saves the 'disposal fee' when getting new ones fitted
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I would hazzard a guess most people put it down the drain.
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As far as I am aware it is not legal to dispose of oil into the water supply i.e. chuck it down the drain. Environment Agency suggests taking it to the tip. If you've got a lot of it, many councils do a collection scheme.
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The Berlingo filter is accessible from the top, but the sump plug is easy to get at without ramps, so the oil suction pump (PELA) stays in the box. The whole process takes around 20 minutes, perfect!
Never known one to get as much out as proper change. I think it leaves around half a litre in my parents 1.6 litre 2003 Civic.
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Never known one to get as much out as proper change. I think it leaves around half a litre in my parents 1.6 litre 2003 Civic.
Many manufacturers quote two capacities for the engine oil - original factory fill and service drain/refill.
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"s far as I am aware it is not legal to dispose of oil into the water supply "
There is an Oilcare URL on all oil bottles where you can visit the page and enter your postcode and it tells you the nearest oilbank. It is then recycled by Hall and Campeym CIWM OSS etc....
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Non of the DIY peolple have mentioned where they get rid of the old oil.
The local council tip. I look after four cars and take it there every couple of years. I understand some people mix it with creosote for shed treatment.
My local one also takes car tyres. Saves the 'disposal fee' when getting new ones fitted
I also use the local council tip.
Most people that might be inclined just to put down the drain probably don't do DIY oil changes !
Mixing old engine oil with creosote was always said to make it last longer before needing to be done again - note it's been illegal to sell creosote since April 2003 and illegal to use it since June 2003 - although there are some exceptions for licenced professional use.
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>>note it's been illegal to sell creosote since April 2003 and illegal to use it since June 2003 - although there are some exceptions for licenced professional use.
I thought its use was OK again, after the substitute was found to be more hazardous than creosote?
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I've painted it onto sheds and fences in the past but now it goes to the local council facility.
Useful leaflet with instructions on how to find yours.
publications.environment-agency.gov.uk/PDF/PMHO040...f
It's definitely illegal to pour it into a sewer or storm drain; very irresponsible too.
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Well, the guy who did my oil change yesterday used one of these and one thing I have noticed is that the oil was still black very quickly after the 'new' oil had been added.
My car is a diesel so am aware that the oil blackens more quickly but if, as suggested here, his method of using one of these has resulted in old oil remaining in the sump is that anything I need be concerned about as the car is not due another oil change for 12 months now?
Would I be better forking out (again!!) for a nother oil change using the sump drain?
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Marine inboard engines, petrol or diesel, cannot be drained via a drain plug, therefore most marine techs use this sort of oil extractor.
http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/tools-repair-kits-fixings/pela/650-oil-extractor-pump.bhtml
Some marine units have a pre-installed pipe that is connected to where the sump plug would be on a car engine and it's other end is at the top of the engine with a cap on it.
This type of oil extractor can either be connected to the top of this built-in pipe or if the engine doesn't have a built-in pipe, the Pela unit comes with a selection of nylon pipes that can be slid down the dipstick tube right down to the bottom of the sump.
The Pela unit pictured is a brilliant piece of kit-used one for years.
Provided that the oil is changed regularly and the correct grade used, sludge will not be a problem as the contaminated oil remaining in the engine is always diluted by the fresh oil.
Talking about the colour of the oil, it is when engine oil doesn't go black that you have a problem-the products of combustion and contamination are not being suspended in the oil and are being deposited somewhere else-causing sludging on the inside surfaces of the engine and will not come out with the oil change.
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If you are keeping your car for some time invest in one of these, makes easy clean work of changing oil properly.www.quickoildrainvalve.com/
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Non of the DIY peolple have mentioned where they get rid of the old oil.
Used engine oil makes great bar oil for chainsaws! I also use it for rubbing into exposed steel on tools and machinery to prevent rust.
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Soooo....should I re-do the oil change from the sump or will the suction pump method done yesterday be sufficient?
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I would just run with it as it is.
I have DIY'd cars for what feels like centuries(!) - oil to council tip - and frankly with modern engines and oils -IF the oil is changed regularly - what oil is left in the sump after a suction pump job is likely to be no more than the oil left in the oil pump and oil galleries - which you can never drain.
I actually tried jacking up one side of the car away from teh drain plug to see what extra oil drained out using the conventional way - and it was about 2 eggcups full. Not significant.
IF the engine has sludged up oil, I would doubt whether the suction method will rmove all the old oil. But neither will draining as the sludg will be everywhere.! Son had a Mark2 Fiesta like that... it took 3 oil changes over 10,000 miles to remove all the sludge - an engine internal flush was considered too risky as there was so much sludge it could have all detached and blocked the oilways.
So if I were to use a pump, I would ensure the oil was warm, ensure the engine was tilted so the oil congrgated near the side with the dipstick - usually parking on a slight slope with the rear wheels higher will do that as most dipsticks are front mounted. Also ensure the car is level side to side.
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So if I were to use a pump, I would ensure the oil was warm, ensure the engine was tilted so the oil congrgated near the side with the dipstick - usually parking on a slight slope with the rear wheels higher will do that as most dipsticks are front mounted. Also ensure the car is level side to side.
Thanks for the reply - I agree that changing it again is a hassle.
Just one thing and please don't think I am being smart here - I am just not clear. You state that the engine needs to be tilted to the side near the drain plug yet the car level side to side?
I have a ramp at the entrance to my garage which I could reverse up so that back is higher than front - the dipstick is at the front and the wheels would still be on the ground at a lower point than the back of the car.
Is that what you mean?
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"The dipstick tube never reaches to the bottom of the sump"
I think you misunderstand how the modern way of doing it works.
A semi-rigid nylon tube is inserted into the dipstick tube and fed in until you feel it hit the bottom of the sump, you then lift it out a few mm so it doesn't block it.
You engage the vacuum and the oil is sucked out. As the sump becomes empty you see gurgling bubble in the oil and pus that tube in the last few mm and keep gurgling. A bit like a milkshake with a straw.
I can assure you there is no sludge or more ullage than using the drainplug, as with each new car I get, I have removed the drainplug at the end as a test to see if the sump is designed in such a way that the vacuum doesn't remove it all.
On cars with incineratable elements such as VAG & BMW, you can also suck old oil out of the filter chamber.
Edited by Hamsafar on 30/06/2012 at 13:34
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Ah well, seems opinion is split as to whether they do a 'proper' job or not. I figure I'll have to do the experiment myself and find out.
a further question I have is whether engine flush is worth it before an oil change?
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Many owners doing DIY oil changes, do the change more frequently than the manufacturers schedule - if you're using oil of the required API viscosity and ACEA classification I don't see that you need to worry about a few ml of old oil left in.
If the engine is in good condition, regularly serviced with the correct grade of oil then flushing should be pointless - if however the engine is in poor condition, it may be worth using flushing oil BUT be aware that it may dislodge debris and make a poor situation worse.
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Most engines have an oil cooler which will hold a few hundred ml of oil & will stay put no matter what drain method is used. There wil also be oil trapped at various places in the engine, so there is little point worrying about the odd few eggcupfulls left in the sump. Plus as someone else pointed out, if you use suction, quite a lot can be retreived from the filter housing.
I use an old electric fuel pump from a breakers, all fuel injected cars have one, usually located near the fuel tank, so loads lying around at the breakers. As it runs off 12v you just connect it to the battery, suction end connects to an old bowden cable outer & goes down the dipstic tube, then a piece of rubber pipe from the pump outlet to an old gallon can. The motor buzzes away for 10 minutes & job done.
I used to take old oil to the council tip oil disposal tank, but a friend who has a garage business uses an oil fired heater that takes old engine oil, so it now goes to him to help keep warm in the winter.
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I have a 6 litre Pela oil extractor. I have been using it for ages to do interim oil changes between services. I do not change the oil filter at the same time, as it involves removal of undertray and jacking up. The filter gets changed at the annual service.
When done I take the Pela to the local tip and use the supplied spout, so no need to decant the oil into another container.
Some cars have baffled sumps, which will not allow all the oil to be removed. Just check your sump is not baffled internally.
Someone mentioned engine flush - I've always steered clear of this stuff. Last time I bought a used car I purchased some cheap ASDA motor oil (think it was 90p/L and said it could be used for flushing oil on the back) put that into the engine, ran it for a few miles, removed it and then put in proper oil.
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