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Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - brum

A highly creative "report" by that bastion of the insurance industry, Swiftcover, surveyed 1600 motorists and came to this staggering conclusion. Who do they blame? Young drivers of course.

I have yet to encounter any modern car with fog lights that dazzle me, day or night. However many DRLs - in particular the led types fitted to the latest high end Mercedes I find painfully bright and dazzling and some DRLs seem to stay on even when the headlights are turned on. Hardly the kind of car that an 18 year old drives.

The amusing "report" is at What Car.

Edited by brum on 27/01/2012 at 19:27

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - unthrottled

Couldn't agree more. The illumination race is alarming because there's no disincentive for the culprits.

They clamped down on bull bar-why not excessive DRLs?

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - jamie745

A highly creative "report" by that bastion of the insurance industry, Swiftcover, surveyed 1600 motorists and came to this staggering conclusion. Who do they blame? Young drivers of course.

Well obviously. Not going to blame the 45 year old Audi-driving-rep flashing their spaceship lights at those in front are they?

They clamped down on bull bar-why not excessive DRLs?

Because the EU are very much behind DRL's and to be fair to them they have a point. The amount of times i see cars in the rain on a dull day with no lights on it proves British motorists cant be trusted to put lights on themselves so teacher has to do it for them. Sad but true.

I do wonder if others find the S-Type's lights a bit strong. Its fitted with those Bi-Xenon's or whatever the hell they are, i tried them out at home with main beam and fogs on and seriously, i expected planets to start orbiting the car.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - gordonbennet

Rear fog lights have probably caused thousands of accidents, not to worry the new superbright LED rears will cause thousands more too, and the really amusing thing is that owners of these gay super bright lit cars think they are safer for being seen.

Try judging the speed of retardation of a braking LED lit car, you can't, and normal stop lights disappear into a sea of ultra bright lights on a busy motorway especially when wet.

As for front lights, its a war thats lost now, very difficult to see the road anymore with glare from hundreds of ill adjusted overpowered lights all around....how poor old pedestrian and cyclist are meant to stay safe and seen is anyones guess.

Safest times in the urban street lit situation for everyone were the days when we used to drive round on side lights only, our eyes adapted to the semi light and unlit pedestrians were easily seen as were unlit objects in general, far easier and safer for everyone.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - jamie745

how poor old pedestrian and cyclist are meant to stay safe and seen is anyones guess.

To be honest, the cyclists who choose to dress in black and cycle at night with no lights are the sort of people we can do without anyway. When im walking at night i just presume nobody can see me and act accordingly (not wandering in the road is a big part of my policy) and ive not been flattened. Wahey!

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - meldrew

When teaching my son to drive a while ago he drove home in rush hour traffic after I picked him up on my way home from work. My job was not to worry about his driving but act as spotter for unlit black (clothing) cyclists on lesser roads.

As regards modern headlamps I am glad other have problems with brightness as I thought it was me. Just don't know how people manage rush hour nights day in day out.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - unthrottled

I find the problem more pronounced on back roads where the speeds are higher and your eyes become accustomed to the darkness. If a modern Range Rover or something similar comes towards me, the dazzle is really bad. My headlights are pretty feeble and I'm tempted to leave them on main beam but I can't tell how bright they actually are to an oncoming driver.

I don't want to dazzle other drivers but I don't see why I should have to slow down to 20mph or less for the convenience of Toad of Toad Hall.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - Flying Red

'cyclists are the sort of people we cand do without anyway'

I'm appallled at your arrogant lack of respect for human life.

Fact is, a cyclist in black shows up quite well in either dipped or main beams. The reflectors on their bike show up from about 50 metres away.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - unthrottled

I think a tongue was being pressed very firmly into a cheek.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - Bromptonaut

I think a tongue was being pressed very firmly into a cheek.

I wish I was sure Jamie's tongue knows where his cheek is.

Unlit cyclists are a pain but they're not likely to remove pedal reflectors (a practice restricted to the keen and clipless) so at least hey give some clues.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - bonzo dog

Edited by bonzo dog on 28/01/2012 at 20:38

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - Smileyman

I agree with the use of DLR's but find the LED 'starship' type to be a nuisance, they are too bright and a distraction, but the use of standard front lights as DLR's is fine - even dipped headlamps are a better option.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - Engineer Andy

As usual, most issues surrounding other drivers being dazzled by the lights of other vehicles is either down to laziness or incompetance - I see so many people on my way to work with their front fog lamps on - you'd think that they would know being keeping an eye on the instrument panel and would know if the other glowing headlight lamp is on.

On a flat bit of road, its not too bad, but it more of a problem when the road undulates (a similar issue to if the dipped headlights are not correctly adjusted for height), and especially if the road is unlit.

I think the more "modern" car lights - LEDs and particularly xenon headlamps can very very dazzling, especially if not correctly adjusted for height. I suppose it doesn't help the image of the more expensive vehicles fitted with them (Mercs/BMWs/Audis/high-end hot hatches generally) with the rest of us!

Saying that, I had several near-misses with pedestrians and cyclists who seem to have a death wish, by not wearing flourescent clothing and often not using any lights at night, then deciding to cross very fast-flowing, unlit roads from behind trees, roadsigns etc!! A high-vis vest costs a fiver for Pete's sake!!

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - john96

Here in Germany, lots of older cars have had LED daytime lights retrofitted...I think they look horrendus personally

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - Bobbin Threadbare

Here in Germany, lots of older cars have had LED daytime lights retrofitted...I think they look horrendus personally

They do! I've seen a few older vehicles (including a flat bed van) with them and they look stupid.

I was tormented by a large Merc 4x4 with very bright, misaligned headlight all the way home yesterday. 4x4s are worse because their lights are shining right at your rear view mirror level!!

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - jamie745

4x4s are worse because their lights are shining right at your rear view mirror level!!

Ah well you see the solution to that is to have a bigger 4x4 than them.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - dieseldogg

Simple answer, a co-ax MG or failing that somewhat excessive reaction a co-ax laser should suffice.

With my poor night vision I find any extraenous light distracting.

My other pet peeve is the unseeable indicator lamps so cunningly incorporated in the main lamp cluster so as to be indistinguishable against the side or dipped beam.

such outstanding design.

Gerrr!

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - brum
My other pet peeve is the unseeable indicator lamps so cunningly incorporated in the main lamp cluster so as to be indistinguishable against the side or dipped beam.

Yeah I've noticed that....theres a design fad nowadays....style over substance.

Indicators that barely can be seen because of an "integrated style", some designs cannot be viewed side on at all. Audi and others relish in the stupid pencil thin tail lights , not very visible. I personally find modern LED designs very bad.

Bad viewing angles (a fundamental limitation of leds)

The instant switch on/off of them does not seem as effective as the conventional softer switching bulb in conveying a brake or indicator message to the following driver.

I suffer from objectional flicker/persistance in peripheral vision whenever I see led braking/parking lights due to the multiplexing they use. Even very high frequency multiplexing causes problems because the peak brightness is very high causing long term persistence (image burn in the retina)

They dont have the same brightness spread over the same area - invariably a much more intense point source so image retention (burnt retinas) is a big issue.

The spectrum of LEDs is narrow and so I find the "quality" of light poor - in the same way as I think that eco flourescents are piffpoor

Edited by brum on 29/01/2012 at 12:50

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - dieseldogg

And I just remember having my eyeballs fried as I turned into the work entrance during a dark winters morning.

I was directly behind a brand new fuel tanker, the combination of LED fog lights + LED brake lights + searing LED indicators had me like a lamped rabbit.

He & I were both turning right & so had to pause a while before getting a break in the traffic.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - unthrottled

re: unseeable indicator lamps so cunningly incorporated in the main lamp cluster

Yeah I've noticed that....theres a design fad nowadays....style over substance.

Hooray! I thoughtt here was something wrong with my sight!

VWs have got to be the worst in that respect.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - Bobbin Threadbare

I can't tell when a new shape Honda Civic is indicating; the orangey is too hidden in the other lights. New Golfs are quite bad too.

Also there's a style of Merc with theose daft strip LEDs just under the indicator which are not too good.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - unthrottled

Quite an achievement for Honda to produce a car with visibility problems outside as well as in! I know the old style civic was bland-but it worked well.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - hillman

"I was tormented by a large Merc 4x4 with very bright, misaligned headlight all the way home yesterday. 4x4s are worse because their lights are shining right at your rear view mirror level!!"

I tend to indicate, pull over and let them pass. It sometimes causes problems though when other drivers don't seem to want me to rejoin the traffic.

Horray ! I thought that it was only myself who often-times finds oncoming headlights too bright. I do quite a lot of driving on unlit country roads in the High Peak. My car has a thumbwheel control to adjust the level of the headlights. When the car has a normal load the control is to be set on zero, but I set it on 1 to dip them a little more. I wonder how many cars are the same and the drivers either don't know what the thumbwheel is for, or don't care.


Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - concrete

I find the whole situation with these extra lights is laughable. 'boy racers' always have their fog and spots on day or night, otherwise how else would we know what they got for Xmas. Other idiots drive along with their high intensity rear lights on at the mearest hint of dusk. The most annoying by far are the morons who sit with their foot on the brake when stationary, blinding the be-jasus out of anyone behind. Why? Personally I would ban all front spot and fog lights, they are useless anyway. I would fit a device to switch of brake lights when the vehicle is stationary. As for rear high intensity lights being misused, a special moron catcher should patrol looking for them. The general problem is getting worse and I agree that the new Mercs, Audi and some Fords are really annoying with their dazzling display. Surely they don't need to so bright simply to appear visible to other road users. Come on car makers and law makers, do something. Concrete.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - jamie745

The most annoying by far are the morons who sit with their foot on the brake when stationary, blinding the be-jasus out of anyone behind.

I do that. I dont particularly need to because the car has an EPB but im still not used to it and i dont trust it. But im not telling you to stare at the back of the car and its such a non existant problem which only exists on the internet. I've never found myself blinded by brake lights for goodness sake.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - TeeCee

I have yet to encounter any modern car with fog lights that dazzle me, day or night.

Too right, it should be impossible. Fog lamps have a flat topped beam and are mounted low down, the idea being to prevent the reflection back off the fog that the upward pointing part of a dipped beam produces while still illuminating the road surface.

If the beam's pointing anywhere near another driver's eyes, they're misaligned.

Driving lamps on the other hand.......

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - dieseldogg

Jamie75,

Why am I not surprised you sit with your foot on the brake, thus dazzling any driver so unfortunate as to be behind you.

Would or could you perhaps consider poor night vision to be a form of disability?

Seeing as I understand you are in that line of work.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - Red&Bold

Instead of the LED DRLs whats wrong with the volvos with the stay on headlights?? they are niether dazzling nor distracting. why do you need a seperate bunch of lights to do a job that your sidelights/headlights can do perfectly well?

as for the new improved invisible indicators, it was bad enough when half the road population was not using them in the first place let alone the other half joining in by you not being able to see when they do indicate. i feel sorry for the Motorbike user.

stationary with your foot on the brake! isnt that what a handbrake is for?? i can also pull away alot quicker when im sitting on the handbrake. the only time i can see sense in it, is when i have just joined the tail end of a traffic jam on the motorway on a misty/foggy evening and want to let the driver behind me that i have infact stopped so they dont plough into my rear. once they have joined me its handbrake time..

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - unthrottled

whats wrong with the volvos with the stay on headlights?? they are niether dazzling nor distracting

I think they are. The danger is that drivers start to look for lights rather than objects. The experience of countries that introduce DRLs is not entirely positive. Austria scrapped compulsory DRL after accident rates went up after their introduction.

The pilot studies are hopelessly flawed. Obviously if you make a vehicle conspicuous, then it is less likely to have an accident when compared to the control group. What is often overlooked is that the control group is slightly more likely to be involved in an accident. When everyone keeps their lights on, the relative advantage is lost, and dimly lit objects become even less conspicuous.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - jamie745

According to the statistics you're already twice as likely to die on Austrian roads than on British roads anyway. Studying the effects of DRL's in a country with a worse safety record than us to begin with hardly gives a clear indication as to how it'd work here.

Why am I not surprised you sit with your foot on the brake, thus dazzling any driver so unfortunate as to be behind you.

Maybe they should be concentrating on the traffic lights rather than staring at my car. They're free to use an alternative route if they dislike me that much.

Would or could you perhaps consider poor night vision to be a form of disability?

Seeing as I understand you are in that line of work.

What line of work is that exactly?

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - dieseldogg

unthrottled,

I have attempted to argue this point in respect of flashing beacons and Hi Vis clothing.

when all are using or wearing no one stands out and it could be argued could lead to "information overload" and thereby distraction................leading to an accident.

Ditto "cones" 3 feet from the vehicle they are supposed to be protecting .......and this during daylight hours, I have repeatedly queried what special magic powers these cones posess?

Yet to recieve a cogent rebuttal.

An even better example is reversing bleepers, like car or vehicle alarms one soon learns to "tune them out" especially in a place of work.

Plus if multiple reversing bleepers all sounding at once, which direction does one look first??

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - unthrottled

Diesseldogg-completely agree about the over use of high Viz clothing. It's a real disservice to those that actually need it.

I don't think DRLs are dangerous in the same way that high intensity xenons are-but I don't like the methodology their proponents use to justify their application.

I view excessive illumination in the same way as I view bull bars; ie the user makes his vehicle safer at the expense of everyone else's safety-which is unacceptable.

Most accidents don't happen because people couldn't see the other car/bike/pedestrian; they happen because people don't notice.Adding beacons, bleepers etc to everything doesn't help.

To proponents of DRL I would say: why don't you see stars in the daytime-since they are still there?

Answer: they are obscured by sunlight.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - jamie745

I'm getting sick of the 'if everyone has lights on then we wont see anybody!' strawman.

If you cant see people in high-vis, regardless of how many there are then you shouldnt be allowed to drive a car.

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - dieseldogg

Most accidents don't happen because people couldn't see the other car/bike/pedestrian; they happen because people don't notice.

Adding beacons, bleepers etc to everything doesn't help.

BINGO!

Succiently & clearly put Unthrottled

Dazzling fog lights cause 300,000 accidents - TeeCee

Easy one. A combination of simple mathematics and politics at work.

2 headlights = 110w. 2 sidelights = 10w. 2 tail lamps = 10w. 2 number plate lamps = 10w. Total = 140w.

EU wants "lights on" and starts legislative process. During that, some bearded eco-fiddler works out the CO2 impact of every vehicle in Europe burning 140w of electricity while it's on the road rather than only at night-time. Much hand-wringing ensues and a heated argument between the "lights on = safety" crowd and the "CO2 will kill us all" crowd begins. Both sides' arguments rapidly degenerate to: "But think of the children!!!". A solution statisfying both camps is required.

Voila! DRLs. Too many vested interests and political careers at stake to just admit it was a daft idea in the first place.