Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres?

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Sat 2 Oct 2010 10:16
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - arnold2

From the BBC - Many councils 'waiting for grit' :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11454665

We have a pretty cool climate, yet the majority of cars in the UK run on summer tyres all year round - which don't function properly below 7 degrees C.

I only realised this after I started regularly driving to Germany and Austria a couple of years ago. There, during winter months, it's the law to drive either winter tyres, or all-weather's with the snowflake symbol. Realising that apart from a potential fine from the police, I was sure my insurer wouldn't pay out if I had an accident ("well, it's the law in Germany...") I started investigating winter tyres.

Ask any tyre dealer in the UK, and you seem to get the response "ah, you want SNOW tyres'. Which is only part of the point - they grip in low temperature conditions, snow, slush, ice. Of course there has to be a flip-side - they don't have wear ratings comparable to summer tyres, with the soft rubber compounds I presume. And they don't work so well in warmer conditions.

The answer seemed to be all-weather tyres. But you need to choose well - a lot of these are aimed at the North American market, where tread wear is king - I have seen reviews of European tyres, where they have been criticised for not lasting more than 30,000 miles.... ! I ended up with Nokian WR-G2's, ordered via MyTyres since they don't have UK distribution. Vredestein make some good all-weather tyres, too.

The difference? In the warm weather, they feel like a good entry level tyre - you wouldn't want to put them on your ST, but for the majority of normal cars they are fine. They really come into there own in adverse weather - presumably as a function of treads to clear snow, they channel water away easily - my car never felt so stable in heavy rain. And what is odd is that as the temperature drops you notice... no difference at all! There's still the laws of physics, but grip in low temperature is far better....

I wonder, with all the coming cutbacks, if the councils are waiting for grit because they just can't afford it!

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Sat 2 Oct 2010 10:36
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - Collos25

Autobild this week tested 20 winter tyres apart from a 4 the rest were worse than summer tyres taking all driving conditions.The best was Dunlop with Nokian well down the list.Itss s really a bit of a money earner for German tyre shops you must remember the performance in anything other than snow or ice is far below the cheapest of summer tyres.

Living in Germany I am not aware of any law that says you must have winter tyres its only recommended,there are roads where it is forbidden to drive in snow without winter tyres but these are clearly signposted and if you have an accident in snow and you have summer tyres fitted then the police will take that into account their report is the most important not the insurance company report.Where I live in the east we are renown for hard cold winters but I have used leased cars with summer tyres fitted all year without problems the German authorities are far better than the uk for treating roads in fact it is a German law that they must treat all roads.

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Sat 2 Oct 2010 14:08
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - madf

If you drive a fwd car sensibly in snow - and it does not have silly low profile (55 or less) tyres, you should be Ok in normal UK winters.. including last years..

Provided that the tyres have good dry and wet weather grip..

Frankly most motorists I see in snow have absolutely no idea of clutch and throttle control and if they had winter tyres would just crash quicker.

The best cars in snow have narrow tyres and little power.. and are driven with attention and anticipation of what is coming in front..In my lengthy motoring experienc, the ONLY cars I have ever had trouble# with in snow were: Rover 90,Ford Granada and BMW318i - some common factor there but it just escapes my mind .... All the fwd cars I had including a Rover 800 managed to keep going and (touch wood) I have never so far been forced to rely on a tow or other assistance when stuck in snow...

# Trouble defined as being unable to get up hills, or sliding uncontrollably or spinning..

I did have a Triumph 2.5PI but it was superb in snow - if you ran the passenger side ...tyres along the grass verges...:-)

Most 4x4s round us were stuck last winter- usually behind a rwd car which could not move. I have also noted when conditions are very severe, it is no good having winter tyres or 4wd or both - if the queue in front of you is stuck -usually behind someone in a BMW spinning wheels at 5000rpm and going backwards at best!

Edited by madf on 02/10/2010 at 14:10

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Sat 2 Oct 2010 22:41
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - turbo11

To get out of my road you have to drive up a moderately steep hill. Last winter many cars struggled to get up it. My Mazda 5 was truely hopeless, despite being front wheel drive. It has great grip in the wet or dry. The problem is with the latest tread design of performance tyres, which have wide longditudinal grooves but very few latitudinal grooves.They soon fill with compacted ice and they just spin up,whatever rpm and with or without traction control on.

Thirty years ago, I was driving in many a poor winter in North Yorkshire. The old cars I drove around in then which were shod with old fashioned tyres by todays standards, never struggled . I am about to purchase some Autosocks for the winter. Hopefully I will never need to use them.

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Sun 3 Oct 2010 12:32
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - Alby Back

Of course winter tyres are the best performers in genuinely wintery conditions but in my experience it is also a huge benefit to just ensure that whatever tyre you have on your vehicle has plenty of tread depth left when driving in the white stuff. If you have "summer" tyres on with worn treads and combine them with snow you will end up dancing at some point.

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Sun 3 Oct 2010 13:06
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - nortones2

To A. Do you have a link to the test by any chance? Hopefully in English - my German is not really up to reading lengthy pieces:) We have a set of winter tyres Nokian) for use only in cool weather. Made us laugh when the dealer was ooohing! about lack of snow and predicting imminent demise of tread!

Edited by nortones2 on 03/10/2010 at 13:08

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Sun 3 Oct 2010 14:06
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - gordonbennet
I ran a set of Nokian WRG2's all last winter on my terrible shouldn't be allowed on the road RWD car.

Uncannily quiet and smooth riding gripped very well in all weathers particularly heavy freezing rain and obviously came into their own with the ice and snow where the car never hinted at sliding let alone becoming stuck, there are more aggressively treaded winter tyres which will probably ultimately plough through snow better but these performed admirably as all round winter/cold weather tyres.

I wouldn't run winter tyres all year round, they are expensive and need to be above 4mm tread to give of their best, so seems little point in running them in conditions they are not designed for when all season year round tyres are available, such as Vredesteins Quatrac 2 and 3 and now others.

I think proper winter tyres are a good investment if you intend to keep a vehicle for several years, quality ones will last most drivers 4 or 5 winters use so in effect they cost nothing as the summer set is sleeping the winter off in the garage.

A bonus if you do as i did and get a second set of wheels (ebay used for example) as your prime set then never see salt and stay in prime condition.

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Sun 3 Oct 2010 14:22
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - Collos25

Look under www. autobild.de hopefully this weeks issue should be there.

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Sun 3 Oct 2010 15:05
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - arnold2

Looks like a couple of posters missed my point here - Andy, I was refering (hence the thread title) to ALL WEATHER TYRES - not winter only tyres! I agree that in variable northern climes, swapping Summer to Winter tyres may mainly benefit tyre dealers! Of course, depends where you live - rural areas are worse than a large urban conurbation.

But you are wrong about German law - what is states, is that you must have tyres appropiate for the weather conditions. In Northern Germany I see over 90% of cars in winter running either good all-weathers or winter tyres.

As per the performance of the Nokians - bear in mind Nokian describe them as winter tyres you can use all year round - all weather tyres. Yes, I am sure the review you pointed to had winter tyres that out-performed them. My point was that in moderate variable climates, the Nokians are far better than summer tyres in winter!

Oh, madf - if you can drive like this in winter on your summer tyres:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2WbIL65xts

you're the best driver I know of!

They are very popular in Canada, where they get 'weather' quite a lot.... :-)

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Sun 3 Oct 2010 15:10
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

I used Vredestein Quatrac2 on my old Passat estate and found them excellent all round tyres. The traction in snow was great.No overheating and grip and handling were fine for the purpose.

However my current Skoda has silly 225/45/17 tyres and these tyres are not made in my size AFAIK.

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Sun 3 Oct 2010 20:41
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - madf

Oh, madf - if you can drive like this in winter on your summer tyres:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2WbIL65xts

you're the best driver I know of!

They are very popular in Canada, where they get 'weather' quite a lot.... :-)

I can't.

And even if I could, not on UK roads.

And IF I lived in hilly country where snow is frequent, I would have winter tyres.

But in deepest Northermost Staffordshire at 700 feet above sea level, roads are passable 95% of the winter with summer tyres.. And the rest of the time they are blocked by motorists without winter tyres.....unless they are side roads in which case they are blocked by snowdrifts...

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Sun 3 Oct 2010 15:48
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - nortones2

Thanks AB. Seems Goodyear, Continental, Semperit and Dunlop were tops of the winterreifen, if I got the right article. Nokian "satisfactory" Perhaps AutoExpress will run something on these lines - I think they are linked to AutoBild?

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Sun 3 Oct 2010 23:19
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - Collos25

Just asked the local traffic cop and he confirms there is no law in Germany which says you must use winter tyres or any type of tyres except studded plenty of advice but no actual law.In the case of an accident in conditions where winter tyres would have been of help this will be noted and presented as evidence against the offender.I totally agree with you about there use but walking my dog today I looked at parked cars and many have their winter tyres on already but they are so worn not to be of any use at all.

Northern Germany has soft winters compared with Little Switzerland ie Dresden were tough in the east we had to be as Brits living in the DDR.

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Mon 4 Oct 2010 08:05
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - SteveLee
I put a set of Viking winter tyres on my ex girlfriend's MX-5, it went from being a liability in the wet (especially as she had absolutely no mechanical sympathy and used the pedals as on/off switches) to an absolute hoot. Even quite usable in the snow which would have been impossible with the previous Bridgestones. Road noise at speed was worse but bearable.
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Mon 4 Oct 2010 10:04
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - Alby Back

For what little it's worth while I agree it shows prudence to fit winter tyres if bad conditions are expected , I've driven across Germany and on through Austria into Italy and back a number of times a year for nearly 30 years without ever fitting winter rubber. To be honest I never gave it a thought and wouldn't know the letter of the law. Certainly it has never been questioned. Not to say it wouldn't be a good idea to get some though. Ignorance can be bliss and all that.

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Wed 6 Oct 2010 18:18
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - Collos25

The German Government this week have decided to try and make it compulsery to have winter or M&S tyres compulsory.The problem is that there are 13 states in Germany and they all have to agree a format something they have tried for many years and still cannot get it correct the states that tried to enforce their own laws are having to return any fines they have issued regarding tyre use because there is no such national law in other words a complete mess.

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Wed 6 Oct 2010 20:48
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - Collos25

The ADAC have just made a statement saying that the majority of winter tyres perform much worse than the average summer tyre .The government minister also wants all coomercials to be fitted with winter tyres,with Germany being the busiest transit country in Europe god nows how they are going to police it.

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Wed 6 Oct 2010 22:19
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - Brit_in_Germany

Andy, where did you find that story? Not here:

tinyurl.com/2clgj29

The ADAC is always very keen on Winter tyres - they just say that they are not always needed in parts of Germany where Winter is not so severe.

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Fri 15 Oct 2010 00:50
Ford Focus TDCi - Not enough grit this winter-all weather tyres? - Smileyman

I got stuck once last winter - on ice - and as I need new tyres anyway am considering purchasing a set of winter tyres, which I will replace with summer tyres next March, then back again in October etc.

There is a wealth of current test reports on this website http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/ including the recent German tests (in English).

I've spoken with a few retailers - chains and independants - and supply seems to be an issue, eg no-one is able to supply the Dunlops I selected 205/60/16 size, but will fit them for me if I purchase tyres mail order from Germany.

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