But that's a lifestyle choice. People who don't like high road tax and high fuel prices can buy cars that cost a lot less to tax and use a lot less fuel.
Within reason. If you've got three kids, then you won't get away with an Aygo will you. You could tell them to keep it zipped up, but aren't we supposed to be encouraging kids, so that we can all grow old with them keeping us?
...and if I fancy a couple of dogs...or like windsurfing....or kayaking...or...mountain biking in picturesque parts of the country...why should I have to hire car every time I fancy doing that?
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One word Westpig, Prius
I object very strongly to that Kith....although nothing at all personal.
I've driven several Prius and find them stodgy handling cars, with most unremarkable performance and dreadfully bland interiors. Furthermore, most of my motoring would be using the comparitively inefficient petrol engine, because my driving needs are either a reasonably flowing, off peak hours, 5 mile commute on the rural outskirts of London where it's quite hilly..or...very long journeys to remote rural areas...neither of which would use the electric bit much. It is most rare for me to be in stop/start traffic.
When on the long journeys, I need to fit in a: wife, 2.5 year old child and paraphernalia, plus two large dogs. The longer the visit, obviously the more stuff, so a very large roofbox often comes as well. Try fitting that lot in/on a Prius.
Then there's the morals of it. The batteries of the Prius have their own noticeable environmental impact story...and so does transporting the things half way around the world on a ship. If you were to factor the fuel usage/carbon usage of the ship that delivers the Prius to our shores, add it to the Prius's lifetime usage..and compare that with say a home grown diesel Range Rover that only comes from Blighty...then the justification for a Prius goes right out the window.
I object, greatly, to stupid/underhand politicians falling for c*** like that...if i belt up a m/way, at speed, i'm kinder to my wallet and the environment using an efficient modern turbo diesel...and if i want to cart all the stuff mentioned above..it needs to be an estate car.
Pardon me for choosing a 'nice' one as well...rather than some piece of compromised, hypocritical c***.
Again, nothing personal Kith..but it's rattled my cage.
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You've raised the doubtful scenario of an entirely "homegrown" RR before, and its still isn't realistic. All the steel is likely to have nickel from Canada, where the environmental impact is not as the Daily Mail stated. They had to withdraw their piece on Sudbury. The other materials are mostly imported. Its just assembled here. Further, the ratio of energy usage is about 15/85, where 15 represents the manufacturing burden, and 85 the fuel and other running costs over a vehicle lifetime. According to the SMMT. Fine, you don't feel the Prius is for you, but don't need to go over the top on all its other aspects.
Edited by nortones2 on 01/05/2010 at 15:20
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Fine, you don't feel the Prius is for you, but don't need to go over the top on all its other aspects.
Why ever not? I'm posting on a motoring website, i'm passionate about motor vehicles and think people should see with their eyes open.
If you are doing anything other than city centre driving, then there isn't much point to a Prius, you'd be better off with a turbo diesel.
If hypocritical politicians and people with other agendas want to push misinformation, then people like me who can see through it, ought to warn everyone else.
A Prius has a most unremarkable driving experience and is noticeably inefficient in the majority of the driving ranges most people would wish to use it...yet our Govt has seen fit to highlight it for lower/zero taxation..why?
I applaud Toyota for investigating those technologies and if they become more apparent because of the Prius, then the Prius is worth it (my f-i-l's RX400h is a reasonable bit of kit)...but...the motorist with a soul would not want one...and why should they be financially worse off for ignoring them...when they aren't even more efficient.
Does this Govt want us all to cram in to microcars like the Italians in the 50's?.. Not that it would be lawful, they'd be overladen with a full family in it and the (rightful) modern take on safety and car seats for kids etc wouldn't allow it.
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The thing about the Prius that really puzzels me is that it is said to produce much less emmisions than a non hybrid car. But, if a Prius is driven in a similar manner to a similar car with a similar load it will produce a similar fuel consumption. If it murns the same amount of fuel how can it produce less emmisions? The fact that it may run on the battery some of the time in stop start driveing only displaces the emmsions.The chemistry of burning the fuel is the same.
All I can think of is the the emmisions test themselves are a load of rubbish and the marketing guys at Toyota have seen a nice niche .
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But that's a lifestyle choice. People who don't like high road tax and high fuel prices can buy cars that cost a lot less to tax and use a lot less fuel.
So is house ownership, putting on the central heating, having children, going on holiday and multitude of other things
Fact is that these costs are likely to go up even more once the election is over while at the same time the budget for transport will be cut, possibly up to a third, while is there is no or little alternative to the car. Public transport is to expensive and over priced.
We are heading back to the days when only a select few can afford to have cars and holidays abroad
I have a modest 1.7 litre car yet the tax is over £200 a year
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I have a modest 1.7 litre car yet the tax is over £200 a year
And it probably costs you at least double that in insurance and double again in depreciation. For most cars the tax is significant but not the biggest of the fixed costs of running a car.
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And it probably costs you at least double that in insurance and double again in depreciation. For most cars the tax is significant but not the biggest of the fixed costs of running a car.
Insurance and depreciation are not taxes, well some of the insurance is
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I guess my car is worth £500 or so now. It cost me £52 to fill it with unleaded on monday, most of that was tax. The RFL is £125, there is 5% insurance tax, then the VAT on top, VAT is on all of the parts and labour. That is a lot of tax on a little old car.
My MP has been phoned 3 times and emailed in a vain attempt to get an appointment to see him, but to no avail. I have also contacted all three major parties.
We get fingers wagged at us each budget for driving our cars, then the Chancellor gets in his luxury barge and get driven 400 meters back to Downing Street. I hope the price of fuel is hurting their electioneering.
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QUOTE:...."Insurance and depreciation are not taxes, well some of the insurance is""
Effectively insurance is a tax levied by private companies!
You don't need to have a minimalist car to have relatively low running costs.We have a VW Touran 1.9TDI that costs £150 a year to tax and does about 50 mpg. Ours has 5 good seats and plenty of space - most Tourans have 7 seats.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 30/04/2010 at 11:32
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You don't need to have a minimalist car to have relatively low running costs.
I guess you do not mind paying out even more in the near future then
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You don't need to have a minimalist car to have relatively low running costs.We have a VW Touran 1.9TDI that costs £150 a year to tax and does about 50 mpg. Ours has 5 good seats and plenty of space - most Tourans have 7 seats
Got a spare £10,000 grand you can give me then! In your 'so easy' solution you don't seem to have taken account of anyone who can't afford to replace and existing vehicle with models such as yours. Would do wonders for the economy if we all purchased brand new Tourans/etc - well at least until the debt situation caught up with us.
We each have disctinct needs in a vehicle and even more wants - should we all be nice little conformists then ?
There are vast amounts of money being taken from the motorist, all we ask is that it is done reasonably fairly and without the preaching.
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You don't need to have a minimalist car to have relatively low running costs.We have a VW Touran 1.9TDI that costs £150 a year to tax and does about 50 mpg. Ours has 5 good seats and plenty of space - most Tourans have 7 seats
Got a spare £10,000 grand you can give me then!
There are plenty of cars around that fit the bill of 2 adults/3 kids and won't break the bank and 2/3 year old versions are nearer £5k than £10k
I think that too many people have been fooled by the manufacturers advertising and are now convinced that they need something bigger than they actually do and with a much more powerful engine than is needed for day to day use.
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"I have a modest 1.7 litre car yet the tax is over £200 a year"
Next week I will have a 1.8 litre car and be paying £0 road tax
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If in the UK, either pre '73 or disabled, Kith... which?
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Agreed re the speed humps.
There's a very cheap and easy fix for areas that really need people to slow down. Introduce 20mph, one strike and you're out areas for the most dangerous bits of road.
More than 35mph in these areas and you lose your licence for a year. No fines, no fuss. Would stop it overnight. No more bumps required. No need for the 5mph-then-accelerate-to-40mph dance so many drivers implement in bumped areas.
It's actually an approach I'd advocate across the board. Turn a blind eye up to a point, then down like a ton of bricks.
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But that's a lifestyle choice. People who don't like high road tax and high fuel prices can buy cars that cost a lot less to tax and use a lot less fuel.
So if we all switched to low powered shoeboxes the government would carry on allowing us to drive tax free? Of course they wouldn't, they'd put the prices up accordingly to restore lost revenue - at the moment big car owners are subsidising shoebox drivers. Also, big cars last longer which is better in terms of polution to create the cars in the first place as well as the polution cost of sc***png them.
Showing how "joined up" our government are, they forced families into bigger cars thanks to the child car seat laws and then taxed them to death for the priviledge.
The LibDems and Labour are car-hating bigots.
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>>Traffic calming is fine if it's used sensibly and properly designed. Ideally it shouldn't be needed but too many people drive too fast in residential areas.
There is a fairly quiet residential road near me that has a 30mph limit. Some people stick to it, others drive at about 40-50mph, because they use it as a rat run to get ahead of the rest of the traffic to save themselves a few seconds. I'm waiting for the humps to appear, and ruin it for the people who have abided by the limit. What I'd like to do is employ a couple of people placed strategically along the road to push prams hard into the middle of the road with dummies in them, as they are flying down the road. The prams would have a lead attached so that you could pull them back in and wait for the next idiot. That'll slow them down.
And if the traffic humps appear, well, more fool them. Unfortunately, it will ruin it for everyone else, just like people who gabble into their mobile phones or drive up someones chuff at 80 on the motorway in the rain, then wonder why they're upside down in a ditch, stopping everyone else getting to their destination for 6 hours. Selfish to the core.
Edited by corax on 01/05/2010 at 17:41
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I had a nice surprise when I went to tax the Golf yesterday. In between the printing of the reminder slip and yesterday. the cost of 6 months VED had risen by 10%.That's on top of fuel rising by nearly 20% in the last few months.
Inflation at 3.4%? Yeah, right.
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