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Used C6s are looking like bargains now...................
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>>which the C5 gets nowhere near.
Not sure I agree with that. Which C5? Hydractive 3, 3+ or coil springs? I never owned a XM, but I did have a BX and that wasn't as good overall as my C5 with Hydractive 3+.
The BX was softer, maybe, but the H3+ system provides as soft and supple suspension as I need until you rag it or press the sport button and then firms up very nicely for the bends. Could the XM do that?
Anyway, back to the thread, I'm not sure any car gets particular preferential treatment in the BR, the Mondeo does get mentioned a lot, but then I've seen just about everything else recommended at some time, except maybe Alfa Romeos!
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turbo11 ,yep the tourer looks great but i think boot space suffered as
a result.
On the way back from dropping wife and kid at her mothers ,just seen a new 750 bmw
pulled up ,a rare one i think.
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There are good reasons behind the Golf, Octavia, Mondeo thing. The latter two in particular are easily found and really good in their class... and there's always someone who wants a Golf.
When car hunting just before Christmas SWMBO and self commented the new C5 was a fine looking car and puzzled why you didn't see many about.
Since my C5 Tourer was delivered 28 days ago I've only seen one other anywhere in the flesh and then it was 25 days before I saw that.... not just a Tourer... a new shape C5 of any description.
Most other cars I've had as soon as you get one you see them all day.
Is this new C5 a failure for Citroen or are they all at home being polished? There aren't really any folks on here owning up to having one either. The previous C5 seemed to get about far more quickly.
It would be interesting to see sales figures by model... wonder if they're online somewhere?
Edited by M.M on 28/01/2010 at 14:33
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My dad had two XMs - a '94 2.0 auto hatch and a '95 M reg 2.0 Turbo auto estate - both were incredibly comfortable and the only car my dad would consider for his 25k per year on the road and a car he credits with being one of the few of that time that you could drive Gatwick to St Tropez for our yearly holiday in one go without an ache to show for it. Very good seats too. There are a handful around where I live, all the MK2 though.
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Is this new C5 a failure for Citroen or are they all at home being polished? There aren't really any folks on here owning up to having one either. The previous C5 seemed to get about far more quickly.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that Citroën's discounts are not as big as they were a few years ago. Drive the Deal are currently offering about £1500 off a Citroen C5. A few years ago, iirc, discounts on C5s were a lot bigger.
It would be interesting to see sales figures by model... wonder if they're online somewhere?
It certainly would. I think that the info is available to fully paid up members of the SMMT, but not to us ordinary mortals.
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It has to be down to cost of ownership surely ? I personally like the C5 Tourer and the C6 and the aforementioned Accord too, however when you do the sums the major short to medium term cost - depreciation is higher on these cars (without significant discounts) so I would suggest they tend to be bought by people who are going to keep them for long enough not to be punished by this ?
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MM agree about your C5 have seen only one in grey i think,don't knock it
though its different which is good.
I like all three of the cars in the title and would have any of them,a friend
has a Mondeo and its rides better than mine.
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The XM had the auto-adaptive suspension (with sport button) before any other Citroën, this then turned up on the Xantia Activa, the BX wasn't that soft because the car was so light. I've driven all C5s including the new ones, the Mk1's were very badly set up until you fit the later spheres, like the MK2 (non poverty spec) they have fully adaptive HA3 which feels as good as the current (non coil sprung) C5, although the new car itself is more refined so it feels better. The lovely C6 nearly matches the XM for ride quality but is let down by a fidgety ride at low speeds.
As I maintain, the C5 (any) does not get close to the XM for ride quality, but then the XM isn't as good as a CX in that respect but will run rings around it in the bends. I know Citroënheads always say the last big Citroën rides better than the latest and greatest, they said the CX was too hard (compared to the DS) but that's silly because the DS was soft to the point of being undrivable in some situations.
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SteveLee, I'm surprised you think that the C6 is so much better than the C5, as it shares the same suspension system, i.e. the H3+ which I'm talking about, fitted to all Exclusive spec C5s since the Mk1. I wouldn't disagree about the bog standard H3 system in the Mk1+Mk2 C5s, that was just not up to par at all, the Mk3 coil springs are probably better that that in most ways.
I haven't driven the C6 so I'll take your word for it.
As an aside, with talk of C5 sales figures, the visual count round here comes out quite differently. I've seen lots of Mk3 C5s round here, or maybe it's the same one over and over! :)
By contrast, although there's still many Mk1 C5s around, there doesn't appear to be many Mk2 C5s at all. I've yet to spot another C5 Mk2 V6 Exclusive like mine anywhere, let alone an estate in the same colour. In fact, I don't think I've seen a single C5 Mk2 in the same colour as mine, estate or hatch. Mine is just the regular blue/grey metallic.
When I do finally spot one, I doubt I'll be able to resist waving and flashing my lights at them like a lunatic. No doubt they'll think I'm quite mad.
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I guess the extra weight and longer wheelbase of the C6 softens it up.
I've got a Mk1 V6 exclusive (I've fitted later spheres) I believe they only sold about 25 of them per year, the only other one I've seen was when I pulled up behind it in B&Qs car park.
Incidentally Sebring do an aftermarket backbox for the V6 (standard Citroën rotfast(TM) one is £1000!) I imported one from France for £300, the quality is such that it will probably outlast the car!
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I asked Haynes about producing a manual for the V6 engine and they said "no chance".
Apparently there are exactly 893 C5s in the UK with the V6 engine. I don't know if that was just Mk1s, or Mk2s too. The Mk2 is, of course, a slightly different engine and wasn't used by Renault at all nor did it see much use in Pugs either, so there can only be a handful of them around with any badge on the back.
Thanks for the heads up on the back box, I'll make a note of that! :)
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The C5 Mk1, Mk2 and C6 V6 engines are all but identical, the extra 5bhp for the later cars is thanks to refinement of the engine management mapping, no doubt the releasing of a bit more torque thanks to the better gearbox. The 4speed ZFHP20 in the Mk1 is a bit naff - well the programming of it is, because it's great in other applications.
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Wikipedia reckons the 211bhp was achieved by the use of variable cam phasing:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_ES_engine#ES9
I've not read anything, anywhere that confirms what Wikipedia says, so I'm inclined to believe you're right.
BTW, things don't get much better with the 6 speed AM6 (Aisin TF80SC) gearbox. In mine it's not that smooth, with some transmission flare in lower gears. Could be something wrong with it, as in other cars I've driven it was a really good 'box.
Edited by TheOilBurner on 28/01/2010 at 16:16
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It's my understanding that the variable cam timing on the ES9 J4S already had the capability for variable cam phasing (along with the already programmed two step cam timing change) and that the difference is in software, they rushed the ES9 J4S out didn't have time to map the cam timing properly to meet emissions regs. I could be wrong I read this on a PSA fan site.
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>>DS was soft to the point of being undrivable in some situations.
Odd you say that. I drove mine like a sports car over motorway, undulating Fen roads and off-road tracks more suited to 4WDs.
Of course it was soft but never out of hand... just frightening lean angles for those meeting you!
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>The Citroen Picasa seems to be the most spotted vehicle in our area...
That's because when you're not driving it you can use it to organize your photo collection. A true multi-purpose vehicle.
};---)
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I guess I should add a car to this thread to make up for the Citroën Hyperbole! My pick would be a Subaru Legacy, not the nicest interiors in the world but I love the cars.
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