Kia Sedona - year 2000 2.9TDi.
I've never had a problem starting my Sedona until the temperatures got down below freezing this winter. I tried to start it - It turned over several times but never managed to fire. After trying to start it several times (maybe 25 to 30seconds in total), the battery became too flat to ever achieve anything. So, then we managed to start it by jump starting it. Once the other vehicle was running and the flat battery charged a bit, the car started immediately - no difficulty at all.
So, I went and had the battery tested. The "drop-test" revealed that the battery wasn't just OK; it was in a very good state of health. When the engine is running, the battery was charging at a level that the mechanic felt was good. I think it was 13.9V.
I kept having the same trouble. I discovered that when I went out to the car cold in a morning, the battery (engine still off) was 12.5V. It then failed to start. After I had got it started (by jumping) and run it for a while and then turned the engine off, the battery terminals then measured 13.5V.
NOW FOR THE CONFESSION. A friend took a look at what I was doing and realised that I was not allowing the glow plugs to warm the engine before I tried to start it. I didn't know that was how it worked. I apologise for being so uneducated. All I can say is - nobody ever told me.
After I started doing this properly I was able to get it to start again...but it still struggled. The engine still had to turn over several times before it would start - something I've not seen before this winter. It was still doing a good impression of an engine that would not start, and then finally starting.
ANYWAY, now it won't start even if I start it the proper way. (Of course it starts immediately when jump started.)
Bear in mind that I have owned the car through several winters and it has never needed me to warm the glow plugs at all, and it has always started.
I would just change the glow plugs to try that - glow plugs are fairly cheap.
Unfortunately I have now found out that it doesn't actually have glow plugs; it has an "Assisted Air Heater Assembly" and it will cost me 150 pounds to try changing that.
Can anyone suggest a diagnosis?
Thanks very much.
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How old is the battery ?
Are you sure the engine oil is the correct viscosity?
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The battery must be more than 3 years old. Certainly the battery seemed to be the obvious candidate, until I had it tested.
The engine oil is correct. Well, at least the I made the chap double check that he had the right one for the engine when he serviced it. I'm afraid I can't tell you what was put in now. It was a semi-synthetic.
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'After trying to start it several times (maybe 25 to 30seconds in total), the battery became too flat to ever achieve anything'
A battery in good condition should have more capacity than that.
You say that it always starts ok with a jump start, so doesn't look like there is too much wrong with the engine.
I would replace the battery with the largest available capacity that fits, as this is large lump to turn over.
It will be possible to get the "Assisted Air Heater Assembly" tested before forking out £150.
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theres also a lot of worthless drop testers out there that are next to useless
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Yep sounds like a knackered battery to me.
If you're going to keep the car get a good quality battery, Varta batteries are superb - will probably outlast the car!
www.vartabatteries.co.uk/Products/VARTA-BLUE-DYNAM...l
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Steve
Sounds like a good suggestion. Is Varta the only good brand? Are there others I should consider?
Thanks
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Sounds like a good suggestion. Is Varta the only good brand? Are there others I should consider?
There are other good brands but Varta batteries are as good as anything but are generally more reasonably priced. If cost is an issue it's hard to recommend anything other than Varta.
When British cars were sold on the continent the first thing a lot of dealers would do is chuck the OE (generally Lucas) battery and fit something decent! It would save them the hassle of dealing with breakdowns as soon as it got cold.
Edited by SteveLee on 23/01/2010 at 12:10
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Hi, I very recentyly bought a Varta as I live in down to -25c conditions.
It cranks and cranks andf cranks my engine for a very long time and then the diesel fires and the engine starts. I would recommend them.......
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Steve, have you used this firm? Their website seems a little sparse in the address department.
I agree that Varta batteries are very good, I always get them for my various machines. They last much longer than Exide.
Bosch batteries are exactly the same as Varta, you can get them from Costco.
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How long should a starter motor be able to turn over an engine?
I know a good auto-electrician who I would trust to check my battery. Maybe I should get a second opinion.
How would you test the heater assembly?
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Far far cheaper and a good investment to get a good new battery. Best investement in fact for a diesel in cold weather. What have you to lose except the price a the battery ?
You say it starts with a jump !!!
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How long should a starter motor be able to turn over an engine?
Of course you shouldn't crank the starter motor for long continuous periods as they aren't designed for this punishment. Better to give it short bursts. As others have said, a battery that is flat in 30 seconds is knackered and should be replaced.
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>I know a good auto-electrician who I would trust to check my battery. Maybe I should get >a second opinion
stop mucking about. Change the battery for a new varta as you have been advised.
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Any update on this, Altea Ego ??........ebt
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Update - A Varta battery is on order. Hopefully that will sort things out.
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My Varta E11 cranked over my diesel at -19c this morning until it started, anout 25-30 seconds.
Love it....
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Englishbullterrier
Impressive! Presumably it must have been cranking it at full speed at 30 seconds still. How long would you guess it would have carried on going for before it started to die off?
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Haha, that was answered this morning. It dipped to -30c overnight and was -29c when I tried to start the car. It cranked at full speed for about 45 seconds, and then slowed up and I stopped trying.
You must understand that the CCA o/p of a battery at that temp. is severely reduced.
I popped to my indoor underground storage area (cellar in English terms) where I keep the original battery fully charged and with a float charge permanently connected.
Took this to the car and used a pair of 600am jumper leads that I made and after about a further 30 seconds of cranking, it finally started.
It didn't simply jump into life, but slowly started to fire up, get quicker and as each cylinder started, it got progressively faster.
Phew, at least I know I can get it started in the severest of condition here......ebt
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it has an "Assisted Air Heater Assembly
Once you eventually get the battery after all the above comments check the air heater is working it's in the inlet manifold like a coiled wire might have 4x sepperate ones.
Suspect it's ok but when you get a new car why not read the manual so you know how to do the basic things like start it.!"
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Doesn't this negate the effect of the intercooler, or is it only used on starting ?....ebt
it has an "Assisted Air Heater Assembly
Once you eventually get the battery after all the above comments check the air heater is working it's in the inlet manifold like a coiled wire might have 4x separate
ones
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Where's this battery coming from then, Outer Mongolia ? :-)
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Patience!
It is now on the car. We'll see how it does tomorrow. Initial signs seem good. I think it turns it over much stronger. I had to start it when it was very warm. Sometimes, in that situation, it doesn't start immediately, and it was then that I noticed that it seemed to be much more positive. We'll see how it does when it's cold.
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Hooray! The new battery really shakes the car. I started it from cold this morning and it started immediately. It looks like we have a winner! Now we'll see if the Varta battery survives as long as the 4 year warranty.
I bought it from a local autoelectrician. He tested the electrolyte of my old battery and it seemed fine. He carried out a drop test and his device told him that it wasn't good but it wasn't bad. Bearing in mind the symptoms though, we decided to go for a new battery. So, in three years time when I get the same trouble, the test equipment won't definitively show that my battery has had it. So, how likely is it that the 4 year warranty will be honoured?
Thank you everyone for your ideas and advice.
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It was only -13c this morning (as opposed to he -30c it's been the previous 2 mornings) and the Varta fired up my diesel almost instantaneously......ebt
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Only -13? Luxury! We used to dream of temperatures as high as -13.
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Its the diesel heater not working. Newreplacement cost is £75 + vat plus fitting of about £20. I had exactly the same problem even after changing battery. The Kia Sedona is one of the few vehicles that has a diesel heater. The minute it was exchanged I have had no problem starting in the coldest of weather.
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The heater device sounds like what used to be called a "thermostart"-it dripped diesel onto a red-hot coil which started a small fire in the inlet manifold.Needed to be on for several seconds before you cranked.
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