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Do these drivers need a good slap? [Read only] - paul2007
Hello
today we went to slough about 09:00 from kent - all was well, little traffic/etc.
on the way back @ about 13;00hrs,loads of traffic, nose to tail traffic, and many idiots having a smoke whilst trying to drive and window open in temps of 4C. Hence the stench of their fags getting into our car. Ok the air recirculation turned on, but at times too late.

what really wound us up was the usual idiots with windows open letteing out their stink - so why can't they keep the windows closed and air re-circulation on to enjoy the full effect of their fags?

This got me out of the car; Has seen it before, a idiot smoker chucks fag butt out of window avd can land in your car. This time it landed between the gap of the bonnet and window 7 smoke was coming up. I got out of the car as it was slow moving traffic along the embankment & went over to the fool by Chelsea bridge traffic lights and rebuked the fool. He wanted to swear by all accounts but stopped as i said i was going to call the cops as he's littered the streets and endangered me/other motorists by throwing out a lighted fag butt. (9if it had been a mild day, i usually open the rear windows of my car and thick people like this cretin are the type that burn your car seat or put you and others at risk by checking out a lighted cigarette into your car)

I've had enough of these anti-social scum bags that check out fags out of their vehicles with total disregard to the safety of others. It's about time the cops pull these thick people in. The law needs to be changed so ignorant people are banned for this pathetic , and dangerous behaviour.

Rant over!

Edited by Pugugly on 30/12/2009 at 17:22

Do these drivers need a good slap? - freddy1
blimy , cant smoke at work or in any public place , inc pubs,


SHUT UP and let a smoker has a quiet fag in there own car.

PS shut your windows if you don,t like ciggy smoke , or the smell of cow dung.


moaning iriot


"I've had enough of these anti-social scum bags that check out fags out of their vehicles with total disregard to the safety of others. "I've had enough of these anti-social scum bags that check out fags out of their vehicles with total disregard to the safety of others.





check out . was spelt wrong ,

keep on the guinness


bye bye ,
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
As I expected, a foul post from an uneducated fag smoking poster.
why the abuse junior, is it because you can't face the reality of these fools?

i trust there are many here that have witnessed or been victims of this hideous/dangerous behaviour from fag smoking drivers! I'm not blaming all cig smokers/drivers but the vast majority do chuck out their fags.

So you advocate throwing out of vehicles lighted cigarette butts that are littering our roads and can cause an accident or damage to ones car or self?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
The cig smoke coming out of the windows was worse than the exhaust fumes of all the traffic around.

Yes, cops immediately !

Keep my taxes down and get a life !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
SQ
Keep my taxes down and get a life !


surely there must many others here that have witnessed the idiotic and dangerous behaviour by many of these fag smoking drivers?

If that fag had landed in my car, i would have certainly called the police and had this driver charged with careless driving and putting other road users at risk. simple as that.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 27/12/2009 at 17:24

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Nsar
>>If that fag had landed in my car, I would have certainly called the police<< I'd have called the editor of the New Scientist as he can bend gravity. Either that or the chairman of the England selectors, just think what he could do with a cricket ball!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
The idiotic and dangerous behaviour of the average ignorant road user is of far more concern to me.

i would prefer what police there were, to be used more effectively in topping the dangrous driving antics of the many motorists on the roads.

Yes cig smoke isnt good for you, nor are exhaust fumes?

Yes cigs landing on your car are dangerous, so is the guy undertaking, weaving, ignoring traffic and people and far more likely to endanger health !

i have to assume you are an ex smoker (nothing worse!).

I dont smoke, but I have more to worry about than the cig butt ! Get a life !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - s.v.u.
Well said !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Nsar
If it was slow moving traffic, how did he manage to flick it high enough and far enough back for it to hit your car? Sounds very odd.

I can't say I have ever smelt cigarette smoke from a passing car. If it did bother me I would use the re-circ button on my heater for a few seconds.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Dear friend, by the traffic lights the road converges into three lanes.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
Please don't venture into the country Paul2007, there are worse smells than cigarette smoke and you never know what might land in your car!
I really can't believe I've just read that, 'tis the season to be jolly, I thought???

Pat
Do these drivers need a good slap? - CGNorwich
Blimey

Thought the Taliban were intolerant
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Pat

the 'smell'1 Ok, i was a bit OTT
however, these drivers dangerous actions of throwing out fagsout of their windows happen regularly anf imagine you was travelling with a bay in the back and windows open in slow moving dual/3 lane traffic and the lighted butt landed on your kid or you for that matter - how would you feel?

their behaviour is anti-social and dangerous
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Birdie
The only time I've had problems with lit fag ends thrown from cars I've been riding a motorbike!

If this is the biggest problem in your world right now, do you wanna swap?

Smoking is still legal (just) in this country, so let folks get on with enjoying their legal pleasures.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Smoking is still legal (just) in this country so let folks get on with enjoying
their legal pleasures.


my friend

smoking may indeed be 'legal' but littering the streets and putting out people at risk is not. This is not just a statement, but a statement of fact.

how would you feel if a light fag landed between the legs of your passenger if she was wearing a skirt?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
He should be so lucky :) :)

Pat
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Birdie
As I write this there is a risk of electrocution from the equipment I'm using.

I'm sat in my house, wondering about the risk of it falling on my head at any moment.

Life comes with risks attached, there are no other options.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - bathtub tom
I'm all for other people smoking, I reckon they save me a fortune in taxes and should be encouraged.

As for the smell and pollution of cigarette smoke:

Would you rather spend an evening in a closed garage with a car with it's engine running, or a chain smoker?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Jcoventry
If I see someone smoking in a car, all I can think is what that car interior will look like in a few years time - yellowed headliner, plastics, etc. It's probably the best way to increase depreciation of your car.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
But if you throw your cigarettes onto other cars, maybe they will depreciate the same too ??
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Armitage Shanks {p}
I am not sure the answer to any crime or perceived anti-social behaviour is "A Good Slap" whatever that means! They can carry on smoking and you can go and duff them up, and leave those of us who don't care one way or the other to get on with our calm rational lives.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Ben 10
I don't think the OP is against freedom to smoke, but would like these people to use an ash tray within the car. Why shouldn't they. They wouldn't flick dog ends around at home. And yes, I do smell smoke from those emitting in front of me on occasions. A crack of the window, as in the old days will suffice in allowing some oxygen into a smokers cabin, without having to have the window fully down passing on their carcinogen onto others around them.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
"A crack of the window, as in the old days will suffice in allowing some oxygen into a smokers cabin, without having to have the window fully down passing on their carcinogen onto others around them."

Perhaps they should have their exhaust fumes directed into the car too for the same reason?

Its ok for non smokers to have their exhausts pointed at innocent people of course !

Moral ? people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones ?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Martin Devon
Two views here. 1. The OP is in fact, correct, but methinks that he has gone the wrong way about delivering his message as I imagine that he has had some Christmas cheer. I perceive this by following the posts.

2. However, there are far more important things that need the attention of the PTB before this particular subject.

MD
Do these drivers need a good slap? - ForumNeedsModerating
It does seem a bit illogical to complain about the minor irritation caused by smokers in other cars when the OP (from another current thread) drives an S600 & a large engined Jeep - just how much noxious fume do they emit per kilometre sat in traffic? Much, much more than a smoker I'd imagine!



Edited by woodbines on 27/12/2009 at 18:01

Do these drivers need a good slap? - jbif
... drives an S600 & a large engined Jeep ... >>


also a BMW, I think (plus the Kissmet Fiesta ? ).
Do these drivers need a good slap? - old crocks
I don't like littering of any sort including dog-ends.But I once saw a whole dog ejected through a window on a roundabout.
However the driver just stopped on the roundabout, got out, picked up dog and threw it back through the window. Poor dog, it wasn't his fault.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Avant
I agree that the OP should be more tolerant - but I have some sympathy as he was having to go to Slough on a Sunday morning - quite possibly against his better judgement.

On a Sunday I'd have taken the M25 from Kent rather than going through London. The chances of a fag-end landing on (let alone in) another car would I suspect be greatly reduced.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - spikeyhead {p}
Of all the issues in the world and the OP decides this is worth starting a thread on?


Do these drivers need a good slap? - Ben 10
Closet troll, maybe! :-)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Lud
What a load of mad, self-obsessed twaddle.

Clearly the OP was born 100 years too soon. By the time the world is fit for him I will be dead thank goodness.

Of course he may be unlucky. Things could slip and go backwards. It could be a nightmare of savage cannibal anarchy by then, with no cigarettes available along with no food, no energy and no consumer products. Perhaps that will be a relief to some.

Edited by Lud on 27/12/2009 at 18:28

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Robin Reliant
Some people are clearly too delicate for this world, what with a whiff of cigarette smoke threatening to kill them stone dead.

Lucky the OP wasn't round my house on Xmas day, when the rich and plentiful diet consumed in abundance from morning on led to some pretty fierce greenhouse gasses wafting through the air.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - old crocks
I wondered how long it would be before posts like this sprouted up.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Armitage Shanks {p}
Fag ends are bio-degradeable - which is more than one can say for chewing gum. If OP wants a crusade he would get more support for a gum one!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - DP
I've driven about half a million miles in the my driving career, in and around London, Manchester, Birmingham and other major cities, and out and about in the countryside, and not ONCE have I been inconvenienced or endangered by a smoker.

Tailgaters, people who don't look before pulling out, people who dawdle, people who can't comprehend the simple Highway Code rules on motorway lane usage, people who can't work foglights properly, people who can't read road markings....yes, but smokers? Never.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - b308
I couldn't give a toss about the smoke part... just wind my window up...

But I have been on the receiving end of a lighted fag but being chucked out of a window when I was on my motorbike and got it full in the face, luckily I used to drive with the visor virtually shut so no harm other than the shock of it hitting me... I did, I'm afraid, give him a few choice words at the next set of lights about using his ashtray in future though...

You could say that he was in stationary traffic, therefore there was little risk, and I'd agree, the trouble is that these sorts of people don't think that way, they just chuck it out regardless of what speed they are doing...

Always two sides to a discussion, eh! :-)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Harleyman
One of the evident side-effects of nicotine deprivation seems to be a heightened sense of self-righteousness!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - tack
This thread has given me the biggest laugh for a long time.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - perro
Paul me ole Son, as you may have gathered - there are a few idiots on this Forum, just as there are anywhere in life today.
Anyone who throws a cigarette butt out of a car should be given a fixed penalty IMHO.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - the swiss tony
IMO smoking whilst driving is as, if not more dangerous than using a mobile phone.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - gordonbennet
IMO smoking whilst driving is as if not more dangerous than using a mobile phone.


TST got a large wooden spoon for Christmas...i agree though and i've never smoked.;)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Alby Back
Smoking and driving properly at the same time does take a little bit of practice at first but you soon get the hang of it. Accurate butt flicking is a much higher level skill but it comes in time to those prepared to put the work in.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - smokie
...and what about those drivers who are so stressed that they get out of their car at the smallest incident? Not sure they are safe to be driving amongst...?

(smokie, on the verge of giving up again, but having second thoughts having read this...)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Thank you Tony & Perro

Some very sensible posts at last!

indeed, 'smoking is more dangerous than,' whilst trying to drive.

I live on the border of london & drive to work in london. it may not happen every day but i do get caught up in the stench of cig smoke in statict/slow moving traffic.

There are many places where there are multiple lanes when i travel to work & almost every day especailly in the morning i see these anti-social, uneducated, uncaring law breakers throw out their cig ends. it is only a matter of time before there is a serious accident that is attributed to a fool throwing out his/her fag end into the lap of a driver, hence accident eg, driver loses control and mounts pavement or knocks off push bike rider/etc/etc.

Any smokers here will agree with me that they often smoke and try to drive in the morning, poss because of stress of going to work as they may hate their job or not hack it there.

have you seen the face of these drivers that have manual cars and trying to keep up with stop start traffic, ie have the fag stuck in their mouth,smoke going into their eyes and face screwed up.


i'm not an 'ex smoker,' and did go to pubs/etc where people smoked and did not even wink. however, a no smoking policy was bought in about 15 years ago. Over the last 5/7 years i've rarely gone to the pub. This no smoking policy means you only see the odd idiot breaking the law in a covered shopping centre by smoking. Hence my probs with the stink but more importantly my concern about their dangerous behaviour.

Call me names if you must but my concerns are genuine. However, I appreciate that the stench of fag smoke from other vehicles whilst driving is a bit OTT, but it is a concern to me.

The law must not only be changed, but enforced.

smoking whilst driving must be outlawed. Those littering our streets from their vehicles with fag ends must get 6 penalty points.

finally, how many times have you seen follish, uncaring, dangerous adults in a relatively old car smoking whilst they drive and one or more children in their car? Through work i've been to peoples homes that smoke, have young children, the walls are often yellow with nicotine stains, home stinks, but imagine what is happening to their children!

i'm made my point. possibly my intially post could have been a bit more diplomatic as I'm a passive guy. however, i feel strongly about this subject and will now leave other sensible drivers to agree with me that people that smoke and drive must be outlawed.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - smokie
"Call me names if you must ..."

I would have been the first to,but it'd be bad form for a moderator so I won't! But I do think you need to get things in proportion and you are choosing to overlook some very valid points above regarding your car being many time more polluting etc.

Edited by smokie on 28/12/2009 at 08:25

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Armitage Shanks {p}
"I will now leave other sensible drivers to agree with me that people that smoke and drive must be outlawed." I am sensible but I do not subscribe to this OTT sentiment. More reminiscent of East Germany in the 50s than UK in 2009

Do these drivers need a good slap? - DP
Moderation would delete my true feelings on this poster within seconds so I will refrain.

I often sit there on the Western Avenue behind a bus belching PM10's into the air, and wonder just how fresh and pleasant the air outside would be if those pesky smokers around me just quit.

Cigarette smoke in stationery traffic is completely irrelevant, and the least of the OP's problems, if only he were prepared to remove his blinkers.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Nsar
In his urgency to get into a fight over nothing, he is likely to be a danger on the roads. Until that is his prayers are answered but he picks a fight with the wrong one and the butt in question will be the one to his head that lands him on his.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - theterranaut
Hi Paul,

you make some good points I feel- there is a slight risk of a butt injuring someone (viz b308) and the smell for a non-smoker isn't pleasant.

However, you make these points very, very badly indeed, and if you really want to win people over to your side then you'll need to learn something about making your case. I suspect even some non-smokers posted against you here, just because of the way you come across. If you don't mind, I'll critique you a little?

1."went over to the fool by Chelsea bridge traffic lights and rebuked the fool."
Pejorative, and makes you sound like B.A. Baracas.

2. "thick people".
Your post is littered with grammatical and spelling mistakes. Calling someone thick or ignorant while doing this makes you look thicker.

3. "He wanted to swear by all accounts"
??? by all accounts? Whose accounts? Not clear on this at all. What do you mean?

4. "As I expected, a foul post from an uneducated fag smoking poster."
You have no evidence to prove this. The poster can use a PC, posts regular, cogent points on this site, so uneducated?

So, really just a word to the wise. Make your point, make it well, but lay off the name-calling at least- its probably no skin off your nose, but if I think someone is a trooll I quietly ignore their posts and refrain from replying, and I suspect others do the same.
On this forum, the only posters who name-call are those who wish to inflame and insult- they post a couple of posts and never come back- they're trolls- that's not you, is it, Paul?

regards

tt

Edited by theterranaut on 28/12/2009 at 08:54

Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
First let me confess I'm a heavy smoker and it's posts like the OP's that make me want to drive with one in each hand as I do indeed, on National No Smoking Day to show my disapproval:)

I dislike the semll of exhaust fumes, more so in heavy traffic, rush hour and when in tunnels.
I dislike the smell that emits from air conditioned offices where it is a mortal sin to open a window and let in some fresh air.
I dislike the smell of stale alcohol on people's breath the morning after.
I could go on.

But they are just that............smells.

To balance that I love the smell of the sea, newly mown grass, a garden in full bloom, CastrolR and farmyards.

You state the case of the look on the smokers face, but I've yet to see a jogger looking happy whilst jogging, yet he would argue that he enjoys the exercise.

You feel strongly about smoking so OK, don't do it then, but while I agree to you having freedom of choice, then I expect you to respect my freedom of choice to smoke.
That is until you can remove the smells that I dislike from this world.

The smoking ban has only achieved one thing.
It's given everyone the right to be down right rude to anyone who dares to enjoy a smoke.


Pat

Do these drivers need a good slap? - BobbyG
Paul, I am one of the world's most anti-smokers since it took the life of my mum when I was only 13.
I hate the smell of smoke and I hate being polluted by cigarette smoke.
However, all things need to be in reason.
I cannot agree with someone who drives huge cars in stop/start city traffic complain about the pollution from a cigarette? Come on, get serious Paul?

However, some of your comments I do agree on - driving whilst trying to set fire to something in your mouth is allowed? I also have seen your example many times of drivers holding a fag, whilst trying to signal and change gear etc and its not particularly smooth!

I agree re your bugbear of seeing drivers smoking away and the kids in the back seat inhaling all the fumes.

But you must realise that many smokers do so, as their parents and grandparents did and they do not know any different.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
A couple of years ago a fire claims investigator told me that around 30%b of
all vehicle fires are caused by discarded cigarettes. It's surprisingly easy for them to be
sucked into engine air inlets where fanned by the inrushing air they set fire to
paper air filters. So paul2007 has a genuine case.
HJ


thank you HJ

This is an incredible stat.
The guys cig did land and i reiterate, between the end of the bonnet and windscreen. it was lit for, up to 2 mins judging by the smoke.

as i said earlier, i could have posted this subject without getting a bit angry.

smokers have a right to smoke where it is legally permitted.

however, most reasonable, socially aware people will not smoke in vheclices with babies inside it or indeed chuck out fag ends out of their vehicles thus putting others at risk of death and destruction.

i apologise for calling the offending driver a fool/etc, but was a bit angry. this is not my style here, or the real world - just check my posts.

if people wish to smoke, their choice but please do not inflict on others, nor throw out your fag ends out of the vehicle.

surely there must be people here that have seen company vehicles that are disgnated as 'work places' being smoked in. this is an offence.

my brother hired a car in june, smelt of fags, he swiftly rejected it 7 the hire company was going to try and charge the guy extra.

when we went on hols in the summer to California - our beach front rental home smelt of cigs. we complained as our daughter is asthmatic, they home hire people moved us to another asap.

smoking may have been acceptable years ago, but it is generally deemed anti-social by the masses these days.

I confess, i drink the odd glass of whisky, tastes great. but if someone else has had an alcoholic drink and i have not, i hate the smell on their breath.


If you want to smoke with your kids in your car, your choice but i'd report you to social services if i had it my way.

To be concise: Smoking and throwing the fag end out of the window is a criminal offence & danger to others.

(I am aware that there are quiet a few cig smokers that do not throw their cig ends out of their car & i take my hat off to you)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - ForumNeedsModerating
A couple of years ago a fire claims investigator told me that around 30%b of all vehicle fires are caused by discarded cigarettes..

Thinking that such a staggering 'statistic' would surely have been commented upon/studied by learned institutions/reported/become a cause celebre/subject of Parliamentary debate etc. etc., I googled the various cocktails of 'cause' , vehicle' , 'fire' , 'smoking' , 'cigarettes' etc & found virtually no causal link between them. In fact about the only identifiable cause/effect I found was of an old chap in Suffolk, some years ago, who set his car alight in a car park accidentally when he dropped a burning cigarette.

Of course, the presence of naked flame, combusting & combustible materials were noted as as potential dangers of course - as were sweet wrappers, gas canisters (camping gaz?) hair-spray containers & all the other forms of goods & detritus carried in vehicles.

From this (and although google searches aren't 'admissible' evidence as such...) I conclude that the 'around 30%' figure for vehicle fire cause is about as convincing as an 'up to 30% off sale items' banner is of getting a bargain - i.e. not very!

However, if the claims investigator has more convincing & verifiable evidence perhaps he or she should not tarry & deliver the evidence forthwith to RoSPA or other influential body/authority.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - b308
The smoking ban has only achieved one thing.
It's given everyone the right to be down right rude to anyone who dares to
enjoy a smoke.


Actually Pat, no it hasn't... its allowed people like me who are asthmatic to be able to visit pubs again to have a quiet pint or two and not have to take my inhaler with me, leave early or have to wash all my clothes as soon as I got home...

If smokers had been a little more considerate about how they smoked they would not have been subject to the draconian measures that have been enforced, but you weren't and have now reaped what you sowed. Carry on smoking by all means, but keep it to yourself rather than try and spread it round... To keep a motoring theme, keep it to your cab or car, especially your butts! ;-)

Edited by b308 on 28/12/2009 at 19:22

Do these drivers need a good slap? - freddy1
that is a joke?

since the smoking ban in pubs , and all the smokers staying at home , i have not seen anymore non smokers in the pubs

in fact the truth is , that pubs are shutting down because of lack of customers
Do these drivers need a good slap? - b308
not seen anymore non smokers in the pubs
in fact the truth is that pubs are shutting down because of lack of customers


Yes, but we can stay all night now if we want to, and not have to leave half way through like I've had to, Freddy! And my asthma is not that bad either.

As for pubs closing, they were doing that at the same rate before the smoking ban, its nice that you think that smokers were keeping pubs alive, but thats just not true, if it were then pubs that sell cheap booze like Wetherspoons would also be closing, not expanding... What is killing pubs is the price you can buy booze at supermarkets and the wholesale price of booze sold to pubs... thats why more people are staying at home and not going out. Its cheaper. Nothing at all to do with smokers!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
I'd be interested in your opinions B308, on why pub landlords shouldn't be allowed to choose either to run a totally no smoking pub or one that allows smoking?

Surely it's their business, their trade and their livelihood at risk.
On the other hand non smokers would have the freedom of choice to visit whichever pub they preferred, as would smokers.

At least there would be the old traditional pubs being retained, instead of the 'restaurant with creche' we have them turning into now to keep in business.

Pat



Do these drivers need a good slap? - b308
Before I say anything, I'd say we're going off topic and certainly motoring so I wouldn't be surprised if we get told off! But (very briefly)...

1. I don't agree with your and Freddy's assumption that smokers kept "traditional" pubs going.

2. As long as the bar staff have the choice to work in a "clean" environment if they so wish, then I don't have a problem with "split" pubs, never have done, the only issue I had before is that smokers had the choice, but the rest of us didn't! But by saying one pub is completely smoking you give non smokers no choice, that I don't agree with. But I can see why you are annoyed that we've gone from one extreme to the other, but I would hope that you could see our non-smokers point of view as well, you had it all your way and now its all ours, both are wrong, there should be compromise.

3. Traditional pubs can still exist with smoking bans and still do, a pub doesn't have to be nicotine coloured inside to be traditional, you are making assumptions that smokers keep them alive, as I've said before I fundamentally don't agree with you on that, its down to price of supermarket booze, not the smoking ban...

The reason we see more and more "food" pubs is because thats where they can make money, and that why you see even back street boozers selling the stuff, and for country pubs who rely on people driving there (motoring connection, phew!) its their only way to make any money.

Edited by b308 on 29/12/2009 at 10:08

Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
I'm glad to see we can meet in the middle somewhere:)

My idea of a traditonal pub though is very different to yours.
It is where men go to drink,smoke, swear, play dominoes and cribbage and to generally get away from the family for five minutes peace.
Women venture in them at their peril and accept it or not, as the case may be!

Now I stand in so called traditional pubs, without a cigarette but can accept that, and find myself surrounded by children with badly behaved parents who prefer to drink at the bar and ignore what little Freddie is getting up to and all this is under the guise of 'eating out'

>>>>>runs away and hides:)

Pat
Do these drivers need a good slap? - OldSock
Pat - I think ladies are now admitted to the 'lounge'

The 'smoke room' and 'tap room' are still male preserves, I believe :-)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
I go in pubs with the lads on a night out, dressed in my uniform, you see. That's how I know what goes on in those 'other rooms' :)

Pat

night out =up the road= in the lorry! I really have to teach you lot lorry driver lingo!

Edited by pda on 29/12/2009 at 11:58

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Robin Reliant
Something to bear in mind about pubs is that they are privately run businesses where you enter at the landlords invitation, they are not a branch of the Social Services. If the landlord permitted smoking on his premises that was his business, and if you didn't like it you could take a few cans home and drink there. Or go to a pub that didn't permit smoking, there must have been loads as demand for them was so high, as the anti smoking lobby kept telling us.

Another example of government intrusion into our lives, and within the next ten years I fully expect to see a ban on smoking in cars, on the grounds that the next person you sell it to will have children who will die immediatly because of fumes trapped in the headlining, or whatever crap they can commision some quango or other to come up with.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - b308
RR, nice to see tollerance to us non-smokers... not! Your post summarises quite nicely why this country had to introduce some sort of ban - it reeks of intollerance, "I'm ok, to heck with the rest of you" - even though we were the majority...

Pat, as I said, a traditional pub doesn't have to reek of smoke, and the rest of your list I'm quite in agreement...

I feel that although I am willing to compromise, it seems some smokers aren't... they seem to feel that we are pcking on them, when will they understand that until recently it was the other way round... learn to compromise chaps (not directed at you, Pat).
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Robin Reliant
b308,

The pud trade offered a compromise of screened off smoking areas which were well ventilated and protected those who did not want to be exposed to cigarette smoke from so being. This was rejected in favour of a total ban, so I think it is obvious on which side the intolerance lies.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - b308
It was tried and didn't work, as you well know... Totally seperate rooms did work, but were very difficult in older pubs, shared bars for instance made it virtually impossible. Hence the total ban.

I have had to suffer smoke in pubs virtually all my life, blown deliberately in my face, people lighting up in restaurants when I was eating (but after they had finished), the list was endless... However I very rairly complained, I tollerated their indulgence even though it meant that my time out was restricted by having to get out to somewhere where I could breath normally again. I've never experienced these tollerent smokers you see to think were around, so to be honest I have little sympathy in their cause especially especially as it now seems we non smokers are being made out to be the villans of the piece...

You would do well to remember that it was the Gov who put in the total ban, not the majority of non-smokers, who, like me were willing to compromise. Had smokers thought of others and compromised earlier we probably wouldn't have had to have such draconian measures put in place, but it was clear that the majority of smokers were not prepared to compromise what they thought was their "right" to smoke wherever and whenever they wanted, regardless of others.

I really feel that some smokers need to step back for a minute and try to see it from a non smokers point of view.

Edited by b308 on 29/12/2009 at 14:21

Do these drivers need a good slap? - OldSock
"Totally seperate rooms did work, but were very difficult in older pubs, shared bars for instance made it virtually impossible"

Not sure about that, b308. The older pubs generally started out with separate rooms - which were ripped apart to make 'open plan' areas in the 70's.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - b308
There are probably examples of both, but the sort I think Pat and I refer to are the old boozers with a "bar" and a "snug", they were seperate but I think you'll find they had a shared bar in most cases... Shame, as I used to like those places and they are quite rare these days...
Do these drivers need a good slap? - carl_a
in fact the truth is that pubs are shutting down because of lack of customers



Yes but they are the pubs which aren't very good. The big pub chains which offer an environment not just for drinkers are making great profits, the smoking ban has increased sales for them.

Traditional Pubs have been hit by many things over the years:
An awareness of drinking and driving (my motoring link!)
Higher costs of distribution compared to grocery retail
Supermarket efficiency and incredible (maybe loss making) offers
24 hour drinking (this was not a law for pubs/clubs, it was for the supermarkets)
Social changes, TV choice, Internet, more eating out of the home, health awareness

The smoking ban is a wonderful thing and everyone I know thinks the same. I hope they ban public outdoor spaces such as high streets, also banning cigarettes vending machines and covering them in shops like they do in Canada would be a big improvement
Do these drivers need a good slap? - s.v.u.
Hear Hear!! But not let us forget the chewing gum drivers as well, just think of what would happen if they happened to swallow it ! Carnage, absolute carnage !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Tomo
Goodness Gracious!

This person would really have been upset following my old Lagonda about half a century ago. The paintwork (Valspar, remember?) was readily renewable, and I would knock my pipe out on the side. There was a cutaway in the bodywork which facilitated this.

But people were more tolerant then.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - sierraman
Fag ends are bio-degradeable -<<


Oh no they arn't,filters are made of cellulose acetate,a plastic.There are now so many on the streets,thanks to the ban,that they may end up in your loft.

tinyurl.com/ye3uhzn

Chucking one out of your car window could cost you £500,well,if you are a bit of an idiot as well.

tinyurl.com/y8p6hwh
Do these drivers need a good slap? - v8man
>>Fag ends are bio-degradeable <<

Actually they are not. The filter takes eons to degrade.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - L'escargot
Rant over!


paul2007,

I think that working yourself up over this and raising your blood pressure in this way is likely to do you more harm than anything which comes out of the car of people smoking.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Altea Ego
"what really wound us up was the usual idiots with windows open letteing out their stink - so why can't they keep the windows closed and air re-circulation on to enjoy the full effect of their fags?"

Paul. I am really astonished that you can distinguish ciggy smoke coming out of the window of a car, after its mingled with all the traffic fumes. You trully have a gifted nose.

Have you thought of a new career? Drugs dog maybe?

I certainly believe someone with such selfish and intolerant views should be kept chained in a kennel out of harms way.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Brentus
I embarassingly recall when working for the Americans on a project in the UK. One of the Yanks said ''why is it all you Brit drivers just open your window and through your rubbish out''.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
When this self righteous person trades in his noxious veehicles for something less polluting than the cars he has then I would consider him to be correct in complaining about the offense that can be caused by cigarette smells and disposals.

But he is polluting the world of my children and doesnt give a damn about it.

I dont smoke, but with such an attitude I hope every car he gets stuck next to in his car has a smoker on board !

And as regarding vehicle fires caused by a cigarette in an air filter ! Not factually correct! Try it sometime, throw a cig or even a match into the air intake of a running engine and see what happens! It extinguishes, believe it or not!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
thank you HJ

This is an incredible stat.
The guys cig did land and i reiterate, between the end of the bonnet and windscreen. it was lit for, up to 2 mins judging by the smoke.


And did it burn or harm the paint? If it did I would understand the need to pursue your claim!

Oh, no it didnt did it! A hot object on paint and it did no harm, other than to your pride!

You constanly ignore the much worse fumes coming out of your car dont you. Correct that before complaining of other peoples "errors"!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - OldSock
I'm trying not to rise to the bait, yorkie - but it's hard, isn't it :-)

Do these drivers need a good slap? - BobbyG
Paul, can you kindly list the CO2 values of your cars and advise on why you bought them?
And be careful not to say anything along the lines of "its a free country" etc?
And also explain how you manage to avoid any of these fumes coming near your asthmatic child?

Cheers
Do these drivers need a good slap? - volcane

I agree with a lot of what the OP says but do not agree with how the message was delivered.

My friend had a car fire started by a cigarette thrown on a motorway, luckily was able to get pulled over and extinguish the fire before he lost the car (99 xsara HDi air box destroyed)

Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
Hmmm!

Ever seen or heard a car back fire through its inlet (esp in carb days)? Why didnt they just burn out too ?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
quote< > Fag ends are bio-degradeable -<<

Oh no they arn't,filters are made of cellulose acetate,a plastic.There are now so many on the streets,thanks to the ban,that they may end up in your loft.

tinyurl.com/ye3uhzn

Chucking one out of your car window could cost you £500,well,if you are a bit of an idiot as well.

tinyurl.com/y8p6hwh>>>


made my day!
thanks

:-)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
But it still does not excuse your polluting of our atmosphere far worse !

As you were asked before, why did you choose the vehicles you have ? Maybe because when the windows are done up you cant smell the smokers ?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
you question is indeed not pertinent to this thread, but purely out of politeness i will answer your question re my choice of my cars.

I's always looked up to my dad, and his lovely mercs. like most people in life that have aspirations, one of mine was to own a s class MB.

The jeep hemi was a treat to myself. Importantly, we can afford them!

car manufactures are responsible for emissions, that is a simple fact.
govs are responsible for setting the disgraceful road tax based on emissions that my cars produce - we pay the highest road tax. we have always paid our road tax. there are many older vehcles that throw out smoke but taxed much more favourably, eg, cars registered before 1976/ i could be wrong!

however, chucking out lit cigs out of your vehicle is certainly antisocial, dangerous and a criminal act.

I'm certain you will not be happy with my response but that is your problem. start a thread on people with large cars, or whatever definition you want to use. Remember, us people with larger, higher emmision cars do pay a lot for the road tax, a lot more in petrol duty and cars are often safer for most as they handle better and stop quicker than old bangers.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
What a load of self indulgent twaddle with the added bonus of the mistaken facts on the handling and braking of bangers etc.

Manufacturers make the cars; but its the owners that pollute, the same as cigarette smokers etc etc.

Your cars are your choice, as is smoking, and I really dont care about your choices! I do object to your holier than thou approach, and your condemnation that a smoker/smaller or older car user/less tax paying person/poorer person is of less worth than yourself and your car.

Throwing a butt out of a car is anti social (is it criminal?) , so is the pollution from your cars ! Which is worse ?

Just get it into perspective matey !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
Since I pay an awful lot of tax on tobacco that exludes me from criticism then, and I have a right to smoke. ( with the car window open too)
Good, I'm glad that's cleared up now!

Pat
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Armitage Shanks {p}
Real men don't smoke filtertips! Paper and tobacco are both biodegradeable.

Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 28/12/2009 at 13:02

Do these drivers need a good slap? - bell boy
totally disagree with the 30% of car fires started by fags
most fires are started by one of 3 things
poor manufacturer wiring/components (no comment they know who they are)
poorly fitted add ons
insurance claims either through self induced claims because the car is a toad or because the lads couldnt knick it and did it with malice (as i told rattle he was lucky he only lost his sat )
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Ben 10
Majority of car fires originating in passenger compartment are malicious.
Majority of car fires originating in engine compartment electrical/fuel defect

Smokers be aware, that lighted dog ends can be "sucked" into the front grille and can induce a fire by lodging in the underside bonnet insulation or land up on or in other combustibles with the engine. Goes without saying, a lighted fag landing on your upholstery will burn that material and undetected will cause a fire within the passenger area.

As for the 30% of all car fires caused by discarded fags, I would dispute this, though it does happen. We have been informed by our FIT ( Fire Investigation Teams) that there are recorded instances they have investigated that have proven a lighted fag has started an engine bay fire.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - bell boy
common sense always wins when you investigate a car fire and how it started, you dont need diplomas :-)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - perro
I have only just re-looked into this fred as I've been reading about the founder of Neoplatonism (as you do!)
I was a smoker from about the age of 13 until the age of 40, and I more or less smoked roll-ups (dog end, remember!)
Quite a few times the end would fall off the fag into my lap or between my legs (ouch!) and I had the burn marks on the seats as well.
But one thing I (almost) never did, was to flick the fag butt out of the window.
I'm no saint I might add (ex Borstal actually) from Bermondsey, but I believe in the saying "Do unto other's as you would have them do unto you" and I wouldn't dream of throwing a lighted fag end out of a moving vehicle.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Cheers Perro for sharing your experiences with us here.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - gordonbennet
Thought this might be acrimonious, but the level of bile is staggering.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - OldSock
Thought this might be acrimonious but the level of bile is staggering.

>>

Yes GB - reminds me of shouting "Fight, Fight, Fight!" in the playground many moons ago :-)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Altea Ego
Thought this might be acrimonious but the level of bile is staggering.


merely propotionate to the level of tolerance shown by the OP.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - perro
To be honest Paul, I wouldn't want to open my window stuck in traffic down Lea High Rd., even on a sweltering hot Summer's day :-)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Pugugly
In fact it was left unmoderated last night for a variety of reasons - may take the hatchet to it shortly.

Edit :-

In fact may remove it altogether.

Edited by Pugugly on 28/12/2009 at 15:02

Do these drivers need a good slap? - perro
Lock it now Pug - all's bin said.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Lud
The Telegraph's superb cartoonist Matt Pritchett summed up the whole smoking ban thing with a single frame. It showed a condemned man in blindfold smoking his last cigarette at the stake. The entire firing squad has dropped dead in a heap of men and rifles, instantly killed by passive smoking.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - perro
Well done Lud, I don't call you Sire for nuffink you know :)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Westpig
There's people dying in the world, what a load of old nothing this thread is...and i'm a lifelong non smoker who cannot stand littering.

I can feel a Monty Python song coming on: "Always look on the bright side of life....."
Do these drivers need a good slap? - OldSock
I can feel a Monty Python song coming on: "Always look on the bright side
of life....."


LOL, WP.

It's certainly not just the 5-minute argument, that's for sure :-)

I don't know if there's an HJ 'most posts generated for so little' award - but this one could be a contender....

Edited by OldSock on 28/12/2009 at 19:53

Do these drivers need a good slap? - moonshine
There's people dying in the world what a load of old nothing this thread is...and
i'm a lifelong non smoker who cannot stand littering.
I can feel a Monty Python song coming on: "Always look on the bright side
of life....."


+1

Hoping that Pug will hit the delete button shortly....
Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
Mmmmm, deleting a thread? Is that a good idea?

Could it be the reason new posters repeat old threads?

Lock it yes, but it would be a shame to lose the diversity of emotion this subject has brought about.

Pat
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Pugugly
Don't worry very few threads are ever deleted. Few are locked as well.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - moonshine
Don't worry very few threads are ever deleted. Few are locked as well.


Just mention global warming that'll get it locked!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - woodster
Paul, I was warming to your way of thinking until you posted this: (and I hope you'll be tickled by the fact that I once got out of the car in a queue of traffic, picked up the lit and discarded butt and flicked it back into it's owners lap!)

''car manufactures are responsible for emissions, that is a simple fact....


....Remember, us people with larger, higher emmision cars do pay a lot for the road tax, a lot more in petrol duty''

Isn't that like the drug seller denying any personal responsibility for what happens to the drug he sells?

How do you pay more in petrol duty? Surely you mean that you buy more petrol, but the duty remains fixed by HM Govt.?


The whole point about emissions in general is that as individuals we cannot deny our personal responsibility and shoulder everyone else with blame (assuming of course that CO2 is a problem and I don't know enough about it) perhaps consumption of petrol might be a better topic - if we all used more economical cars then the world would make it's resources last longer.

That you can afford to drive whatever you want doesn't negate personal responsibility and sounds awfully like a school playground brag. Very brash. But I'll join in and would invite others to do the same. Cash in the bank would buy me a nice new Porsche but I drive a 54 plate Golf. House is paid for and valued at about 400. There, I feel much better.... I look forward to praising everyone elses savings/earnings/equity but remain far more interested in their views!!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
Well put Woodster!

I currently have a choice of 5 cars on the drive (small house but big drive!), newest one is 53 plate currently!

But they are all paid for and insured etc. I have the luxury of using whatever suits the days needs too.

But although I have that many I only use 1 at a time so dont pollute as much as the wealthier types amongst us!

But well aware Im using the kids resources and polluting the atmoshphere etc, just dont feel its right to complain about others when Im just as bad !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - OldSock
Well, Woodster, I was quite warming to your way of thinking until you posted this:

"Cash in the bank would buy me a nice new Porsche but I drive a 54 plate Golf. House is paid for and valued at about 400."

Perhaps you forgot to mention you're a big hit with the laydeez, too....
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Robbie
I have a great deal of sympathy for Paul. I'm totally intolerant of people who smoke in my presence causing me to inhale their noxious emissions. I'm not opposed to people smoking, just not in my space.

My Father and Brother both died of smoking related disease. My Brother was a Special Branch officer and had smoked since he was about twelve. Because of his job he spent quite a lot of time on surveillance in pubs and clubs where he "enjoyed" the benefits of smoking from both ends: real and passive. He was thirty-six when he died of lung cancer.

I have also been hit in the eye with a lighted fag end when driving with my window down. And I have often wondered if smokers are born selfish or smoking makes them so. You can see evidence of this in many car parks and near parked cars where the smoker has emptied his/her car of used butts, and deposited them in a heap on the floor. Friends have also tried to smoke in my car. "It's OK I'll wind the window down." " No you won't, if you want to smoke I'll stop somewhere and you can get out and have one."

If people wish to smoke then that is their right, and I have no objection as long as they keep it to themselves.

Edited by Robbie on 29/12/2009 at 10:53

Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Hello Woodster

Re your incident with the cig - lol-ish!

I'm working from home for the rest of the week. ordinarily, I would not post on this or any other forum during working hours but as work is slow as many are off on their hols, i could not resist myself from reading this thread.

I thank all those that have supported me. I also thank those that have put up arguments against my stance and refrained from posting abuse.

Woodster; last night I was a bit angry with some of the abuse aimed at me here and the OT questions raised to counter the op content of the thread, ie 'emissions.'

I'm big enough to admit that my post about my sequent comments were indeed pompous!

The point re the fuell duty, you are spot on,but as i use more fuel I do pay more and keep the profits up for the gov, petrol co and the petrol station people. I also pay the highest car tax rates.


Ordinarily and in the real world I would never make the comments like i did about my semi-flash cars and 'i can afford them.' If you ever met me, hopefully you would find that I'm a down to earth guy that is ready to help people if they really need it.

going back to the original topic, throwing fag ends out of a vehicle is anti-social, dangerous and a criminal offence. like many, i too would like to see a new law banning fag smoking whilst driving and in public. However, this law must only be introduced if it is to be enforced to a good extent. Hopefully you will never be a victim of a car fire, or an accident as result of these careless, selfish, ignorant, thick people that insist on having their smoke whilst driving haphazardly and then committing a serious offence of throwing out a fag end.

must return to work, may read but won't post again until i finsihed for the day, approx 14;00hrs today



Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
Nothing offends me...............

more than a holier than thou attitude to life and motoring!

But I accept you may be considering climbing down off your mountain P2007; so its a start !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - woodster
Oldsock - I fear you're missing the sarcasm. Actually I'm on the dole and stole this computer.... can only just afford me fags and widescreen TV, leather furniture and Sky TV...

Paul - I don't doubt that you're a decent guy! These forums give the opportunity for decent debate but you obviously also recognise that they afford anonymity thus allowing more than a little bit of sniping. But it adds to the fun I think and it's generally pretty polite on here and well moderated, with some excellent regular contributors. Look forward to more of your pet hates! Regards.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - ifithelps
A motorcyclist was killed by a discarded lit cigarette butt a few years ago.

Car driver tossed the butt out of his window and it lodged in the crash helmet of the motorcyclist, who was following.

This distraction caused him to fall off and suffer injuries which proved to be fatal.

The message in this story ought to be obvious, even to the 'so what?', 'get a life', 'worse things to worry about', posters on here.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - mjm
Why do you want to ban people from riding bikes?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Thanks for sharing that. hopefully it will shut up those that do not recognise the seriousness of discarding a lit fag end from their vehicle!
hopefully, one or two reading this thread will pack up their foolish/dangerous habit of throwing out fag ends.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - dieseldogg
Smokers USED to be ignorant gits (mostly) regarding the fact that not all of us smoked or enjoyed being surrounded by their fug, especially when attempting to eat, or even attempting to SEE the cinema screen through the reek.
I do believe that the lorry fire that destroyed the Mt Blanc tunnel was attributed to a discarded ciggy butt?, getting sucked into a lorry engine.
If smokers are so keen, keep the butts in the vehicle with them, and do NOT empty out in the car park, while the wife gets the chips. tee hee.
But I would rather sit in a sociable smoking section of a pub, assuming the air was not TOO thick, than the empty non smoking section.
Ps Cigars and pipe smoker are OK
Cheers
M
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Armstrong Sid
Ps Cigars and pipe smoker are OK
Cheers
M


I'm curious to know.....Why is that?

Speaking as an ex-cigarette smoker myself..... In the days when you could be in a smoky pub, I always found the amount of smoke and the smell emanating from pipe and cigar smokers was much greater and more unpleasant than anything coming from cigarettes. Pipes especially used to have that revolting sickly smell from whatever it was the smoker put in them; and both cigars and pipes could reduce visibility to zero far more quickly than any mere cigarette smoker could.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - gordonbennet
I'm pretty sure that Cigs have some sort of chemicals to keep them alight, and possibly to keep their users addicted, thats where the unpleasant smells come from, paper never did smell good when being burnt either.

It's cigs that stink foully, cigars and pipes usually smell quite pleasant even to someone like me who's never partaken.

My dad was a pipe smoker never minded that, good old Condor long cut, my mum used to smoke woodies at one time the cig from satan, but nothing compares to the appalling smell of the things my sister gets on her trips over the water.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Armstrong Sid
It's cigs that stink foully cigars and pipes usually smell quite pleasant even to someone
like me who's never partaken.


It comes down to personal taste. I've never encountered a pipe tobacco which I could have described as "pleasant", although I can just about understand cigars.

Pipes always intrigued me, because nothing ever seems to happen with them. The only pipe-smoker I ever knew, several years ago, spent very little time actually smoking the thing. He was forever digging it out with his little spade-thing, hammering tobacco back into it, light it again, take a couple of puffs, then get the spade out again and hammer it all down again. The amount of work involved would've put me off smoking for life.

And if he did manage a couple of puffs on it, he immediately disappeared into zero-visibility fog
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
This whole thread is surely about more than just smokers or not ( although it certainly started off that way).

Its surely more of an attitude problem by drivers; and I fail to see how you can single smokers out from all the other cretins the roads are cluttered with. A non smoker does not automatically become a gifted driver with road sense, manners and courtesy !

Thats the problem! the smoke is just clouding the issue!

A discarded butt offends me less than a pile of fast food wrappers equally poorly discarded!

Attitude, attitude, attitude !

Edited by yorkiebar on 29/12/2009 at 14:19

Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Thank you Robbie for a very sensible post (approx 12 posts up)

i believe it is only a matter of time before this dangerous behaviour of trying to smoke behind the wheel is outlawed.

Hopefully a few shameless people will be prosecuted for chucking out their fag ends and endangering other road users. This is then picked up by the media and these people are named and shamed.

The vast majority of the time those that chuck our fag ends from their cars are usually in older, unroad-worthy vehicles. The same people also throw out food packages, and empty the rubbish of their car on to the pavement or car park floor.

what i find incredible is that a few here fail to see the seriousness of endangering other road users.

i've decided to put it to the test by taking police action against the next person i see chucking out their fag. I will get my family to video a suspect vehicle & hopefully catch them in the act and hopefully the car is registered, ie road legal. Then I will take the evidence to the police and insist they followed through. most likely when the cops turn up, they will also note other items, bald tyres/etc.

If you have read this thread, imo you will note more often how some of these smoker drivers discard their fag buts. I recommend that you do not approach these people as they are often shameless and very loud mouthed.

I don't have anything more to add other than please do not try to insult me here. I recognise the fact that some posters are just creating banter, or being the devils advocate.

finally, that cig butt was removed by me just before 14:00.

(((i apologise for the title of this thread as I never advocate violence, i hate people hitting people - sorry))


Do these drivers need a good slap? - b308
Mmmm, a vigilante....

No, Paul that is not the answer... and tbh, even though I've been the victim of a discared butt, I'd prefer the Police to be chasing more dangerous drivers than smokers... such as mobile phone users... especially driving ambulances...

Edited by b308 on 29/12/2009 at 15:37

Do these drivers need a good slap? - OldSock

Paul, it's no good saying "please do not try to insult me here", when you go posting such things as:

"The vast majority of the time those that chuck our fag ends from their cars
are usually in older unroad-worthy vehicles. The same people also throw out food packages and empty the rubbish of their car on to the pavement or car park floor".

No doubt such people are also benefit scroungers who don't go to church or change their underwear every day.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
OS

My comments are based on my observations and not assumptions!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
Paul I have to say this........

I've tried, I have really tried, to see your point of view over the last 2 days of this thread.
At some points I really began to believe that you may just have a point, that some of us had misjudged you, and your OP was made in anger as an excuse for the rudeness.

I am a lorry driver, I can curse and swear and be as obnoxious as any lorry driver you've ever met on the road on a bad day. I'm a smoker and yes, I do throw my fag ends out of the window.
What's more in a following wind I'm a pretty good aim with them too, after years of practice from the height of my cab.

Now, look back at the last post YOU made, and you will see that you have called me dangerous, shameless, accused me of driving unroadworthy vehicles, being loud mouthed, and then had the audacity to accuse me of insulting YOU.

IMHO you have no idea how to achieve a goal of any sort and have done your case far more harm than good, with continually categorising people and descending into a sanctimonious apology of a normal person. You havn't been able to resist descending into insults and allowed your main point to become lost in the ensuing furore. Well Done.

If you think I'm insulting you, then just look at the above and be assured, that in 30 yrs on the road, working as a female in a mans world ( as it used to be) I am perfectly used to holding my own with far more insulting people than you.

I would suggest a course in people skills and another in good manners may be your immediate course of action, followed by a vote of thanks to those on here who have been able to control their anger at your continual insults better than I have done.

Pat

Do these drivers need a good slap? - ifithelps
...I do throw my fag ends out of the window...

Pat,

I'm sorry - and surprised - to hear that.

Throwing butts out of the window is potentially dangerous and certainly littering.

Given you can choose either to do it, or not to do it, the obvious choice to me would be not to do it.

Nothing to do with being high-minded, restricting your right to smoke or anything like that.

It's just part of being a decent citizen, which is something I thought you stood for.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Pugugly
As a matter of fact and potential interest - Cigarette ends were specified (along with chewing gum) in the Litter Act - Police have always had the power to summon and in recent years issue fixed penalty fines (yes fines not charges) - Local Authorities can also authorize their staff to issue tickets and I know of at least one council and Police Force that have an agreement in place to allow PCSOs to issue tickets on Council tickets. CCTV enforcement is also used.

My view - as a motorcylcist I fear driver's who flick them out of the windows on the move - simple. I have also seen the mess they leave in the gutters, especially at traffic lights. I have no problem with people who smoke as long as I'm not involved in sharing the fag through smoke or fag-end. Watch this space though, I am aware that moves were afoot to ban drivers from smoking and driving. Maybe we'll learn more after the election.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
But my redeeming factor is my honesty and refusal to judge the general public as a whole:)

I recognise the fact that I'm not perfect and never will be and I can honestly say that being a motor cyclist as well, I also always check my mirrors before doing so.

I do also make sure my dog ends never land on the mountains of litter left in towns from every fast food establishment available to the late night drinkers in case of causing a fire!



Pat
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Brill post ifithelps!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Armitage Shanks {p}
Ah yes GB! Camels - the only cigarettes with a picture of the factory on the packet!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - bell boy
the worst cigs ive ever tried after mores
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/smartiesx3/more_red...g

Edited by bell boy on 29/12/2009 at 15:29

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Lud
The Nigerian untipped brand Bicycle had remarkably little to recommend it. The tobacco resembled small chunks of wood and often fell out before you could light the thing. If you did light it, it made you dizzy before you started coughing.

The brand is no more. It was replaced in 1973 by a tipped brand called Mercedes. Social mobility...
Do these drivers need a good slap? - gordonbennet
Camels - the only cigarettes with a picture of the factory on
the packet!


Quite AS, though i don't think they are the preferred poison in question.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Avant
Perhaps in Paul's honour Peugeot should introduce another of their niche models - the 2007, with a huge ashtray between windscreen and bonnet edge.

I'm sure I shall be told that this no laughing matter, but - hey, it's Christmas.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
Paul, I would hope if you take such actions you end up charged with wasting police time!

Its my taxes you cost, its a civil offence, its not criminal !

I would prefer what police we have concentrate on proper crime, which includes people being so arrogant that they fail to see the errors they themselves make !

Unless you of course are another one who is perect in every way !

Smokers are not the only dangerous road users ! In fact I would probably say most smokers may be better drivers than you !

Only based on my experiences of cours, not assumed !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Mapmaker
What a hilarious thread!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Nsar
Please mods, do the right thing. This is painful.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Robin Reliant
Please mods do the right thing. This is painful.

Offer a pack around?

Good idea, I'm gasping.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
fithelps, brill response to Pat

I too am disappointed by Pats comments. Even having read this thread for 2 days according to her post, she still does not see how she is breaking the law, and putting other road users at risk.

Very sad indeed as i liked Pat's comments on this thread bar the post i refer to

:(
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Pugugly
Any more for anymore before it's locked ? We should have moderated the OP's post when it was posted for a number of reasons this one slipped through the net - the tone set in the OP was not in the spirit of this site - so this will be locked shortly unless a convincing argument can be made to keep it open.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - gordonbennet
please do Pug, the bitterness here might be overspilling into other threads, certainly the jibes are.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Lud
It's quite a good example of a rather extreme, not to say barmy, OP eliciting replies some of which are in the same vein.

It also makes it clear that smokers and non-smokers alike are annoyed by the total nature of the smoking ban in pubs and so on, with the exception of a few twits whose bodies are temples and one or two selfish individuals with health problems.

I agree that it has become boring. But since when has a thread been locked or deleted for that reason?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
Does it break the forum rules? I think not.

Pat
Do these drivers need a good slap? - freddy1
i,m fed up of being told by this goverment what i can / cannot do ,

they have made us bancrupt , over the last few yrs ,

Where have you been?

we are BANKRUPT

snip and you know why off topic and offensive

happy hogmanay

Edited by Pugugly on 29/12/2009 at 17:45

Do these drivers need a good slap? - pda
That one does:)

Pat
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Pugugly
Right pda - I agree with you - Lud sums it up nicely as to why this thread hasn't been locked already.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - ifithelps
A thread that receives around 150 replies and more than 7,000 views in two days should be celebrated, not sanctioned by locking.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Pugugly
If you say so.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Alby Back
Been a few posts which could be described as banana skins lying in wait for the unwary mind. ;-)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Lud
And one or two with the rotting-corpse reek of durians about them (but not the reputed delicious taste).
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Puggly

I did apologise for the tone used in the OP.

I've made my point and hopefully a few law breakers have read this thread and now aware of the massive impact their actions of discarding a fag out of a vehicle can cause.

So if you wish

close it.

regards

Paul
Do these drivers need a good slap? - ifithelps
...If you say so...

Well, it matters not what I say, but I imagine the advertisers will be pleased to see well-read and viewed threads.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - jbif
... with the exception of a few twits whose ... >>


Lud: Why do you feel the need to resort to name calling if your debating skills are good?

p.s. I agree with the OP's viewpoint minus his lunatic ranting. The sooner the drivng/smoking ban mentioned by Pugugly becomes reality, the better. All IMO of course.

(That should add some more fuel and flames to this flaming thread, with a lot more smoke to follow.)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Lud
the need to resort to name calling


A bit harsh perhaps although not inappropriate in every case. Sorry. And perhaps the remark about selfish individuals with health problems was uncalled-for too.

I suppose it could be said though that smoking is a selfishness issue. It brings out everyone's personal preference in the matter, in spades.

I have to say though that in my experience people who smoke are aware that their addiction makes them selfish and a bit anti-social, while some non-smokers and most militant anti-smokers appear blithely unaware of their often very silly and unpleasant attitudes and behaviour.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
"I have to say though that in my experience people who smoke are aware that their addiction makes them selfish and a bit anti-social, while some non-smokers and most militant anti-smokers appear blithely unaware of their often very silly and unpleasant attitudes and behaviour."

Wow, how accurate and good is that bit !

And Im a non smoker too ! I actually agree that the butts shouldnt be thrown out of windows; but there is way more to worry about in life, and on the road than that ! The very idea of the need to call the smoke police !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - perro
>>> and one or two selfish individuals with health problems <<<

That line speaks volumes Sire - about you as a person :)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Lud
Probably perro, but I've taken it back. It made me feel uncomfortable.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - perro
>>> Probably perro, but I've taken it back <<<

It bothered me Lud, I know you're far too well read & travelled for that ... interesting thread though, should be made part of the national school curriculum :)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - FotheringtonThomas
Can't get too excited about it, myself.

Oh, unless I'm on a motorcycle, and a fag end should go down my shirt. A wasp did that once, *that* was quite exciting.

Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 29/12/2009 at 19:48

Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
Should we not get wasps banned then? Sound pretty dangerous to me ! Did you call the police ?

That is what this thread has descended to ! (did it actually get any higher though?)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - jaffa
snip

Edited by Pugugly on 29/12/2009 at 21:28

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Kevin
Have to agree with Mapmaker and tack. What a hilarious thread!

We have the OP who gets really "wound up" by drivers smoking with the window open, but then says that he "did go to pubs/etc where people smoked and did not even wink".

He goes on to call another poster "an uneducated fag smoking poster" and then pleads "please do not try to insult me here".

Finally, despite the lack of any evidence whatsoever, we get claims that "smoking is more dangerous than.." and calls for smoking while driving to be made a separate offence.

Priceless. Really priceless.

Kevin...
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Ben 10
"We have the OP who gets really "wound up" by drivers smoking with the window open"

Or does he? I see someone who has nothing better to do over his Xmas break but post a number of times on differing topics in such a short time getting a rise out of many regular contributers and stirring up a hornets nest in the process. I don't suppose we'll hear from Paul from Jan 4th. :-)

Please lock?
Do these drivers need a good slap? No - they DON'T - Armitage Shanks {p}
Actually I am surprised that the thread has got this long/far without somebody asking what OP means by "Needing a good slap" Is he going to get out of his smoke free vehicle and assault people whose conduct displeases him? Reacting to anti-social behaviour with criminal behaviour doesn't seem to be a measured or reasonable response.

Do these drivers need a good slap? No - they DON'T - Pugugly
That's the first thing that struck (sorry) me as being out of synch with BR ethics when I first opened this thread up when it was well into it's stride.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - L'escargot
"Do these drivers need a good slap?"

Violence rarely solves anything.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Armstrong Sid
"Do these drivers need a good slap?"


At the risk of stereotyping......To me the phrase sounds very camp and effeminate. The kind of thing which would've been said by Frankie Howerd or Larry Grayson (ask your parents if you are too young)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - ifithelps
To be fair to the OP, he apologised for the thread title in a subsequent post.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
"To be fair to the OP, he apologised for the thread title in a subsequent post."

But not for his attitude !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Robbie
The attitude of some respondents also leaves a lot to be desired.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
I am sure thats aimed at me; my chin is big enough I can take it.

If my attitude for failing to understand how violence, or summoning the over stretched (expensive to run) police is wrong; then I do not apologise.

There are many more things to get concerned about. If any damage had occurred I am sure the insurance companies would have sorted it out ! It doesnt need police or violence! Just common courtesy on both sides !

No body has ever said the person disposing of the butt was correct !

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Nsar
The OP's prayers are answered.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8433484.stm

Do these drivers need a good slap? - woodster
Smokers say that it reduces stress.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Hiya

Having read all the new posts on this thread since my previous visit here yesterday, I'm even more determined to do my bit for society and ensure that over the coming weeks I will get an offender taken to court for discharging a fag but from their vehicle and endangering other road users. I understand that the max points could be up to 9 on their licence.

I will update when i have managed this.
Last night i was looking for one of those American dvd recorder systems that they use in their cabs to record evidence of accidents and who was at fault/etc - it records for about 15 mins and over-writes recording unless it is over-ridden or impact.

yes i do have a FT job and I'm damn serious as I've had enough of this anti-social behaviour.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Pugugly
Dogcam.com - excellent recording equipment at a budget price.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Armstrong Sid
Hasn't this thread now gone round in circles several times?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - OldSock
Ever-decreasing, Sid :-(

If the OP sources a video recorder from the US, I do hope he states it's to catch people 'discharging a fag butt'.....

Edited by OldSock on 30/12/2009 at 11:24

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Robin Reliant
It's people like Paul who make this country what it is today.

Edited by Robin Reliant on 30/12/2009 at 11:21

Do these drivers need a good slap? - woodster
Sorry everybody - Paul, what offence would the points be for?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - dieseldogg
Seeing as I have lifted several skip loads of rubbish discarded from vehicles into woodland we own. The Council enforcemnt officer says I should put signs up, I suggested that if she let me into her house I would crap on her carpet, I mean there would not be a sign telling me NOT to do so.
She did not appear to find this relevent or funny.
so
Hear hear Paul. Do em. Its litter, the same as the neighbours grass clippings, tipped on our verge. Gerr.
&
pda, Pat I am puzzelled by your idea that it is acceptable to flick your butts out of a vehicle.
cheers
M
PS
How much could we save on taxes for Fire Bridages if there were No smokers

Edited by dieseldogg on 30/12/2009 at 12:07

Do these drivers need a good slap? - L'escargot
I suggested that
if she let me into her house I would crap on her carpet I mean
there would not be a sign telling me NOT to do so.


Saying that was just being childish.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - dieseldogg
and there I thought it was a good attention getting anology to highlight the nonsense that people feel it is Ok to dump if there are not any signs. i mean i'm 50 so it could not be childish, tee hee.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Ben 10
"How much could we save on taxes for Fire Bridages if there were No smokers"

Wash your mouth out DD! :-)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - woodster
Rest easy Spood, the answer is 'nothing', you'd still need to be there. High time they changed your shift patterns though....
Do these drivers need a good slap? - the swiss tony
Rest easy Spood the answer is 'nothing' you'd still need to be there.

Yes, but the fuel costs would be lower, if less callouts......
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Robin Reliant
Yes but the fuel costs would be lower if less callouts......

>>
Not really, think of the lights over the billiard table...
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Robin Reliant
Might I also add that HMRC squeeze 10 billion earth pounds out of us smokersevery year, more than enough to cover even the wildest claims the hysterics can come up with about our alleged costs.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
Go for it paul, call ou the police the next time you are assaulted by a cigarette !

I actually hope whilst that is happening your house is burgled and there are no police free to catch and sort out the criminals ! Yes, I do mean that !

priorities please !!!!!!

Go for it paul, enjoy !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
I have been doing my research for the dvd type cam & cheers for the link.

From www.thisislondon.co.uk (2007)

<<< >>>>.

so smokers drive a massive ''23% faster'' on avg! (((i've noted that many times)

''More inconsistent than non-smokers'' = This report clearly supports my statements made yesterday and the day before.


having read this report, smoking and driving is even more dangerous that i thought judging by this reasearch from a much respected source.

Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
make your mind up?

Is it the smoking that bothers you, or the errant disposal?

They are 2 different factors ! You said before you didnt mind people smoking in their own cars ; just the disposal part !

Do these drivers need a good slap? - Robin Reliant
How do you manage to concentrate on your driving Paul, what with aiming your camcorder at the smokers while busy working out on your calculator how many % faster than you they are travelling?

You must be a nightmare, weaving all over the road with your mobile clamped to your ear while you scream at the police to come down and arrest them.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
Yes but he is not a smker so he is automatically a much better driver than you smokers !

Ditch the fags, claim the better insurance quote that must be so represented by the decrease in risks !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2007
Hello Robin

you must have misunderstood my post/s. I will ensure i have a passenger filimg the criminal offence if we get the chance.

i actively seeking one of those dvd type cams that they have in some NY cabs that record up to a certain period, and re-runs unless you over-ride the systme or there is an impact. These are set up like police cams and you decide before driving where to point.


I've never taken or made a hand held call from a car, even before it became unlawful.

I've been driving cars with remote controlled radios since approx 1996 - i personally felt that the advent of almost all cars having a remote raido was a massive step in the right direction for raod safety.

even the hands free sytems in our cars - i usually pull over if safe or tell the caller to call back unless brief message to me. It's not like talking with a passenger as I find the hands free more diff.

Re smoking and driving - most people are right handed - so assume they hold the fag with their right hand and change gear with left - probs arise at junctions as most of these people that smoke and drive are in manual cars. I blame the gov for allowing this to continue.
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
"I blame the gov for allowing this to continue. "

Yeah, lets blame them !
Do these drivers need a good slap? - madf
Is this 1st April 2010? Have I been transported in time?

I have just read this thread for the first time - and being sober (and a non smoker) burst into hysterical laughter.

I suppose it's meant to be serious: BUT

when the current law on not using mobiles when driving is unenforced # judging from simple observations - and the OP is seriously suggesting smoking in cars should be banned...

to quote another grumpy old man "you can't be serious"

Unless the idea is to bring the law into (more) disrepute.

# and unenforceable without a ten fold increase in traffic police...which is not going to happen
Do these drivers need a good slap? - b308
Blimey, this one still going....

Do these drivers need a good slap? - FotheringtonThomas
Blimey this one still going....


"It's *behind* you!"
Do these drivers need a good slap? - b308
:-)

What IS the difference between a "good" slap and "bad" one, btw?!

Edited by b308 on 30/12/2009 at 16:36

Do these drivers need a good slap? - paulb {P}
What IS the difference between a "good" slap and "bad" one btw?!


I think that must largely depend on whether you are the slapper or the slappee...
Do these drivers need a good slap? - dieseldogg
One could get laired in a bad slap, however a good slap would be well paved.
Norn iron agricultural vernacular
Do these drivers need a good slap? - yorkiebar
Its probably more to do with the size of the smoker ?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - b308
Quite probably Yorkie! :-)
Do these drivers need a good slap? - paul2OO7

I've just been thinking, once I've cleared our roads of the menace that is smoking drivers, for my next pointless crusade I will start filming those who drop chewing gum on our pavements. I mean the stench of that double mint wigglys stuff is sickening. How many times have you got gum stuck on your shoe? Its dangerous and anti social!!
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Robin Reliant
Bearing in mind it will all be filmed, would it count as a happy slap?
Do these drivers need a good slap? - Pugugly
That's enough - locked. Paul2OO7 is an impostor (see last post but one) and not the OP Paul 2007 - Accounts will be suspended in due course. There are some real idiots in this place.

Edited by Pugugly on 30/12/2009 at 17:39