So, my wife has been giving me a hard time about my driving (she has about 10 years experience, I have about 4 weeks).
Specifically she has told me that I turn very slowly into side streets, the discussion been triggered by some tailgating cabbie shouting something (not sure what, because the windows were closed) when we were turning off the main road today.
She says that I slow down, almost to a stop, before turning, and that somebody is likely to rearend me because they wouldn't expect me to be so slow when turning, when they can see that the opposite lane is clear.
The street in question that I am turning into is pretty narrow, with cars parked both sides, meaning that there is definitely not room for two cars to pass each other. The cars are also parked very close to the junction blocking the view until you are well into the junction, and cars absolutely belt down the road (loads of young lads in cars doing well over the limit).
Now, the cars behind me *should* be leaving room for them to stop safely if they can't get past me, but the reality is that they drive close and fast.
My thoughts are that I need to be that slow to be able to turn into the side street without crossing the middle line and to check that the street is clear. I could probably turn faster with more experience, but my wife admits that if I was going much faster I would probably have to cut the line and therefore, in my opinion, not be seeing down the road before turning into it.
She suggests that, in the worst case, I would be able to stop during the turn, although that would leave me over the oncoming lane (of the main road). I fear that, in fact, because the speeding drivers in the side street only brake in time to give way I could find myself turning into them.
In theory, I reckon that I am in the right, because I am turning within the lines, am checking that the exit road is clear and if somebody rear ends me they haven't left the right gap and/or haven't been paying attention.
However, what is right in theory, is little value if I get rearended or hit in the front from the car speeding down the road I am turning into.
No doubt there is some middle ground, but giving that I cannot always turn at exactly the optimum speed, do I err towards taking my time or towards turning a bit faster?
Any thoughts would be really appreciated.
Edited by SteelSpark on 15/10/2009 at 15:23
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You sound like a very considerate and safe driver and its the tailgaters who have the problem. Perhaps you could try slowing down earlier to ensure any following vehicle has had plenty of warning and time to adjust their speed. Also check that your brake lights work!
Unfortunately I see this everyday on my commute to work on me bicycle. Cars will be turning and in spite of a clear signal there'll be a car up their chuff with the driver giving it all that neck craning and 'woss your problem mate, how dare you turn off in front of me and slow me darn' type of look.
Makes me chuckle.
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Would agree, you shouldn't turn into the road unless you are sure that its clear to do so, if thats not possible until you are right on the junction then so be it, you will approach it slowly. If I was a pedestrian crossing or car driver coming out of the road I'm sure I'd prefer your approach to hers... perhaps you should suggest she looks at it from that angle instead?!
Cabbies are always impatient btw! ;)
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Perhaps you could try slowing down earlier to ensure any following vehicle hashad plenty of warning and time to adjust their speed.
Agree 100% with you, Mick.
Indicate in plenty of time, start slowing for the junction early and progressively, you know you may well have to stop so should endeavour to be in control of the situation just in case. If you are slowing progressively as you approach this should give any following vehicles adequate time to adjust their speed and distance accordingly as they should. This puts you in control of the situation and is YOU assessing the risk to YOUR vehicle in an appropriate and controlled manner. YOU are in front YOU are carrying out a hazardous manoevre so YOU need to control the situation, failure to do so would go a long way towards you being deemed negligent in the case of a collision, especially as you know the hazard exists; if you know a risk exists you have a duty to try and reduce that risk.
If the following vehicles are not paying attention to the prevailing road/traffic situation and find themselves having to brake suddenly then really that is them highlighting their lack of awareness and poor driving skill.
IMHO the worst thing you can do is approach the junction quickly, indicate late, slam on the brakes and turn, possibly coming to a halt with your rear hanging out in the main road. Really can't think of a surer recipe for a rear-ender than that given that if they can't assess the situation correctly when you are giving plenty of time they are almost certain to fail the 'brake test' you'll be giving them!
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I have this problem all the time. I turn into my street (a very narrow cul-de-sac) from a much bigger and faster through road (30 limit, but generally driven at 45mph+).
If turn too fast, I risk having a head on with one of my neighbours, too slow and I risk getting read ended by someone as I turn.
I've not been rear-ended yet, but I do get a lot of glares as I slow right down in anticipation of the turn, sometimes quite early if the following car is quite close. I don't care.
Mrs Oilburner doesn't do this, she cruises along at 45mph with the rest of them, brakes hard for the turn at the last minute and wonders why she's *nearly* been smacked into a couple of times. The 2 long black lines on the road were there to prove it!
So there you have it, don't get bullied into taking the turn faster than you know to be safe, start slowing gradually well before the turn, ensure you indicate well in advance and take your time. Can't guarantee someone won't pile into you, but that's all you can do.
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One would have to see the place to know. It's very seldom necessary to slow down to a crawl when turning into a side street, although it may be sometimes. Knowing where to look, looking there and being alert are what you need. And getting your angles right. If for example the turn is very tight and needs to be approached from far out in the road, then approach it from far out in the road, signalling in good time (this too is very important). Do not approach the turning very close to the kerb and then swing out before turning in. Do not leave your signal until you reach the turning. Both of those techniques deserve the pillory, or even the scaffold.
I think it likely that the OP's wife is correct. Tyro drivers often exaggerate the need for caution and need to relax a bit. Of course that's better than the opposite.
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I agree. You are right and your wife is wrong. As you presumably know the road is coming up, you can signal well in advance and start slowing gradually. The closer the car is behind you, the earlier you signal and the more ostentatiously you slow.
At least you know where you are going. A much greater problem is if you are unfamiliar with the area and are slowing for a number of side roads, looking for a particular street name.
It seems to me that going fast and then possibly have to stop suddenly half-way round is much more likely to cause someone to go into the back.
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Often have this problem and I actually slow down more because it is quite common for people approaching from behind to not slow down in anticipation of you having completed the turn before they get to you BUT if there is an obstruction in the side road, you may have to stop so I make sure they have had to brake and already be slowing.
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So my wife has been giving me a hard time about my driving (she has about 10 years experience I have about 4 weeks).
So she's has had ten years to pick up bad habits and you have only had 4 weeks.
What you are doing seems alright to me. Maybe with more experience you will feel confident to go a bit faster but there will always be somebody who thinks they know better and wants to share their opinion with you!
Just ignore them.
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Your approach sounds entirely reasonable to me. If you have signalled that you are to turn left, there is no problem - the driver behind should adjust his or her speed and distance accordingly.
A real irritation is folk who turn right into a road, then cut the corner, usually at high speed. Many's the time I've nearly had my front bumper obliterated by such chumps...
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I agree and practice your approach. Pedestrian safety is very important at junctions. Also turning 90° sharpish is likely to induce severe understeer, accelerating tyre wear, or a skid in damp conditions.
Think some motorists expect I should do a Scandinavian flick turn from the glares I get.
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Your approach sounds entirely reasonable to me. If you have signalled that you are to turn left there is no problem - the driver behind should adjust his or her speed and distance accordingly. A real irritation is folk who turn right into a road then cut the corner usually at high speed. Many's the time I've nearly had my front bumper obliterated by such chumps...
Sorry, I wasn't completely precise in my description. In this case I was actually turning right, although I think I tend to take both turns fairly slowly.
Yeah, I am trying to not cut across the centre line when turning, although pretty much everybody else does. I guess it is not too bad if you can see that the road is clear, but in many cases around where I live (including the corner in question) you can't see that the road is clear until you are well into the junction. Even with some of the wider, less obstructed junctions, the speeds that cars on the side roads come to the give way line, means that you can only guarantee the road is clear for a couple of seconds.
There was a really bad (judging by the wreckage) smash a few months back, just one junction down from the was I was turning one today. I'm frankly amazed there aren't more, watching how people drive (sometimes it seems like I am the only person who indicates around here).
Thanks for your thoughts, and also to everybody else who has commented so far. I do tend to indicate very early, but perhaps I could think about braking earlier than I do now. I do brake reasonably early, but it is always in the back of my mind to not slow down too early and hold up traffic, but if it stops the tailgaters rearending me on these turns, it works for me!
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It was hammered into me on IAM courses to slow right down to a crawl when turning left into a junction.
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slow right down to a crawl when turning left into a junction.
Depends what you mean by a crawl I suppose. Provided you can stop in a foot or so if one of these mythical children or old folk suddenly materialises in the way out of thin air, you are driving safely. Of course you should have spotted them in good time and given an audible warning, or got ready to save their worthless lives.
Would anyone else here call 10 to 20 miles an hour a crawl? I would.
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You are right to slow right down when turning left into a side street, especially if it's a tight turn and visibility is poor.
I always say it's better to hold someone up than to carve someone up. This holds true on roundabouts and in many other situations too. What I mean is that it's better to be hooted at by an impatient driver behind you than it is to pull out in the path of another vehicle, whose driver would be likley to be even more annoyed!
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I was responding to it PU...
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Me too. I was taught not to brake and change gear at the same time when turning into side streets. Slow on the straight then change gear beofre turning the wheel. You have to go slowly to get it right, perfecting it when going downhill is an art.
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I had exactly this problem in the past couple of weeks.
I was taking my friend home from hospital after knee joint replacement.
I was probably driving up to the junction at about 25mph as I'd never approached his estate from that particular direction before.
I took the left-hand turn very slowly to avoid shaking my friend around and causing pain in his new knee joint.
Van driver behind was very upset, honking horn and flashing lights.
There are just some nasty and impatient people around these days.
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The turn into my street is an acute angle, about 80 degrees and there is only room for one car before the electric gate. There's also a high wall and you can't see if someone has already stopped there (or is coming out) until you've turned in, so it all has to be done slowly and carefully.
This drives the tailgaters mad, they are simply too stupid to understand that if they backed off twenty metres or so, they wouldn't have to come to a complete standstill.
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It might be worth considering placing one of those Green L plates on your car. This would indicate to people that you are a new driver and may generate a little more consideration and anticipation of your driving patterns than you currently receive.
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...my wife has been giving me a hard time about my driving...
Steelspark,
You lashed out on a nice new Mondeo to carry your new family around in comfort and safety and now she's moaning.
I think you need to remind this lass which side her bread is buttered.
If she doesn't like your (obviously safe) driving, there's always the bus.
Edited by ifithelps on 15/10/2009 at 20:44
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Simple answer here SS let her do the driving, that leaves you free to ogle the nice ladies to your heart's content, or do the crossword if you prefer..;)
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Demonstrate to her on which side her bread is buttered and then drop it, butter side down, into the dog's basket or the cat's litter tray or the nappy bucket or whatever nasty you may have in your home!
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 15/10/2009 at 21:08
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slap me if I am wrong, but Ialways thought that the single dotted white line at a junction you are turning into means "give way" to those already in the road you are turning into (i.e. pedestrian or motorist) My sister in law was bowled over by a driver once as she was crossing the side road when a car came hurtling round the corner. Cost his insurance a few bob for broken ankle and torn ligaments.
Personally, I hate it if I am crossing a side road and someone toots his/her horn at me and makes faces when they are turning into the road from a major road. I was here first! I do look before I cross; out of self preservation from the idiots who think hey have right of way.
I am like the original OP, I indicate, slow down, take my eyeballs out of their sockets put them on a stick and really look around the corner to see what is coming from the other direction.
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Never turn into a road (left or right) until you can see down it. Usually that means slowing right down though the slips on M/ways or other grade seprated junctions are different.
The junction between the A5 and the access to our village is one of those triangular jobs and the spur from the s/b A5 to the lane is blinded by hedges, particularly narrow and poorly surfaced. Most following motorists react well to clear indications and gentle decelaration but there's about one in twenty who flash and gesticulate.
The problem is wholly their's.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 15/10/2009 at 23:37
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I am like the original OP I indicate slow down take my eyeballs out of their sockets put them on a stick and really look around the corner to see what is coming from the other direction.
Now that would be worth seeing! :-)
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Also do the same. Left turn into my road is a nightmare. Is wide enough, but local householders park very close to the junction. Is very rare that something will be coming the other way, but don't want to take the risk so indicate early and take the corner very slowly.
My parents, coming home from their morning walk, were shouted at this week for daring to cross over a road. They were crossing a junction, had looked for traffic beforehand and were halfway across when a car appeared from nowhere, going quite quickly (about 9.30am in a 30 zone next close to a school). Woman wound her window down to hurl abuse that they should have used a proper crossing even though there isn't one on either road.
In regards to the taxi tooting is a sad indictment of our society that people regard a hold up of a few seconds as such a big issue.
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You always have to be able to stop in the distance you know to be clear on your side of the road. If you can do the turn without someone behind you one day find out how quickly you could stop. Then try the turn a little faster and see whether you are ok to stop. You may find you are being slightly over cautious and you can stop in a shorter distance with less braking than you realise but it is better to be slightly too cautious in some circumstances.
I have a road I turn into that needs to be done carefully as cars are often parked up or pulled in to pass the long line of parked cars so you have to take the corner slowly. People sit on my bumper. I ignore them. It's their problem. The more they behave like a suppository the more slowly and gradually I'll turn in as any sudden change of speed can obviously spook them! Sometimes the road is more clear so can turn in more briskly.
It depends on the kind of turn as to whether I'd expect someone to turn in briskly or slow right down. If it looks a narrow kind of street then I'd expect them to slow more. Not all drivers are the same. Some slow down on every single turn into a side street. Others vary their speed more.
Think you should both do IAM or an advanced driving course. Ridedrive is really good.
I'd err to being more cautious as if someone rear ends you it is their flipping fault for a start! Plus if you're too fast you could either a) rear end someone else or run someone over. The latter is far worse than upsetting a few tailgaters.
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Think you should both do IAM or an advanced driving course. Ridedrive is really good.
Both being the key word! If only one of you does an IAM course, you end up having a lot of conversations along the lines of:
SWMBO: What are you doing?
Me: That's what the IAM teaches you to do...
SWMBO: Well I think the IAM are a bunch of ...
You get the idea! ;)
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The OP could pull over before junction, let said tailgaters pass by, and then turn in job done.
Is it not against the rules to park up obstructing a junction ?.
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The more they behave like a suppository
LOL
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