Hi All.
I've got lease hire Jag. XKR which is about 11 months old (I've had it from new if that helps) and at around 10000 miles I had it serviced, Which could have been just about anywhere and I'm all over the Country at various times.
I was a little bit over on the second service (24k when it should have been 20) this was done in May this year. Up until that point I had no problems with the car apart from a blown valve on the supercharger two weeks after it was delivered, which was duly fixed.
Anyway two weeks after the service I get a warning light (amber, so after contacting the dealer I was told not its not too serious and to bring it in) then the keyless ignition started to play up. So after booking it into the dealer for a quick (I thought perhaps a 24hr repair) I mentioned that it was seemed to be blowing some smoke, also at between 6 and 7,000 rpm there seemed to be a vibration and a metal on metal sound which I hadn?t heard before, so could they look at that as well.
Two days passed without my car back or a replacement (loaner) so after a quick call I found out that they were having problems with some software for the ignition part of the works. They said that there had found a fault and the they needed to install two new catalectic converters. Or so Technical at Jaguar told them as they didn't have a clue at the dealership.?So there was a further two week wait and the car comes back okay'ish with the added bonus of a pretty decent scratch on the roof.
10 days/two weeks after coming back to me, I'm on the M25 doing 70 (can you go faster any on the M25?) outside lane when it sounded like a plane had just gone through the sound barrier in front of me. Except it was no plane, it was me.! Or rather the car.!! At this stage all I could hear, through my still ringing ear drums, was what I assumed was bits of engine bouncing between road and car until it shot out the back at the speed of a scud missile.
Through the smoke and the watering eyes (I wasn?t crying, it was the fumes?.honest) I managed to weave through the now panicking other drivers with no engine to get onto the hard shoulder.
Now this is the thing. Because I failed to look in the service book at the 10k service I missed the fact that the didn?t stamp it (not so unusual I hear you say) as like many others I suspect I had always thought the dealer computer system was national. But I?ll explain in more detail later about this.
Now remembering I?m all over the Country staying in hotels from one end of the Country to the other I could have been anywhere when I had booked it. Of course I can?t remember (odds dictate) where it was done. Its not a simple case of booking one car so I must remember but I manage dozens of cars for the company and booking one is like booking any another.
To move on. The stamp on the second service (the 24k one) wasn?t stamped either but I remembered the dealer the car went to that time so I?m pretty much okay there. Am I right in thinking that once a service is carried out then the warranty will always start again. I think, and correct me if I?m wrong, but the warranty wouldn?t have been available had the car blown up in the time leading up to the service. So within the first 24k miles.
Now I?m in the situation that because I cant prove that the service (10k) was done at a particular place they assume it wasn?t done (perhaps rightly or not) therefore short of phoning every Jag dealer in areas I?ve been to in the last year I?ve no way of finding the details. What doesn?t help is the fact that the computer system they use is local and they have to know the location of the service to either confirm or refute it being undertaken.
Add this together with the fact that quite a few dealers have now closed which means, or so I?ve been told, that they (Jaguar) wouldn?t have the computer details/records of services etc. I should say here that I always pay cash for things, never on a credit card, never by cheque, always cash. So no tracing it location there.
So the end result is that Jag. Are saying that they wont cover the work (a new engine) under warranty ergo I have to pay. But what gets me is that they did the steering and the converters under warranty, and the car had been running perfectly until the service. The official version is this. Due to the non service an d the fact that the engine oil would have caused damage prior to the 24k service they will not be held liable.
As I pointed out. The engine was maintained by myself, oil levels, tyre etc were all checked regularly, and in the case of oil, is it not topped up when needed anyway? Always, as per manufacturers specifications and using the recommended type. Even the replacement tyres were the same make, a tad more expensive but better safe than sorry..
Still no movement.
So I?m left thinking that if this damage had been so obvious surely the technician doing the last service (24k) would have noted some anomalies on the record sheet (which I have). It states that there is no engine smoke, oil fine etc etc. Not a single thing wrong with it.
I might have expected for them to have noted that there wasn?t any oil present in it, or the oil in there was of a poor quality etc, especially as it might affected a warranty. But no notes were made before nothing was wrong.
Personally. And I?ll be careful how I say this but several things are bouncing around my mind.
The two weeks the car was in for the new cats and keyless ignition something may have happened to the car that was done through incompetence or by genuine accident. Why had it taken so long for Jag. Technical to solve a relatively easy problem (this is what I was told when it first went in). One could suspect that the car was (within that difficult period) repaired incorrectly and that caused the engine failure.
Further. You could, if you were a suspicious kind of person, assume that Jag do have the records of the service but are choosing to keep it to themselves. Additionally. Would large firms, even Jaguar, change records?
Just a thought and definitely not an accusation.
Lets just say they made a mistake, would they not be liable for the repair, my trauma in those split seconds (I thought I was going to die.!) lost business to my company for me not being on the road, Paying for a car that I cannot use, paying for the replacement car until this is sorted out. Oh. This is the best bit. Because they?ve said they?re not covering the work then I cant have the replacement car.
So here I am. Car Less, well over £1,500 per month out of pocket that?s before sorting a replacement out and potentially having a bill of over 8k for the engine.
Not bad for a days work. I guess what I really need is the Jag dealer who did the service to step forward and stamp my book to say the 10k one was done.
Anyway I guess the questions I need to ask are these.
1 ? Has anyone heard of this so called oil damage before?
2 ? What of the last service. Should the warranty start again after it was serviced?
3 ? Can they pick and choose what works they do under warranty? As mentioned they had done works on the car only ten days before it exploded.
Any assistance would be appreciated.
Tony
Edited by Pugugly on 10/08/2009 at 22:07
|
If you write a shorter version of the details I'll edit it in for you - not many will read all that you wrote. It's a bit long.
I would think having the Jag serviced 4k over the 20k service interval would have affected the warranty anyway. The 10k service stamp may be irrelevant.
All the best for sorting out this mess - it can cost £9000 for a diesel engine in a family car so it might be a little more for an engine in a Jaguar XKR.
|
|
Credit card receipts ? Lease company invoices (if they pay for the service) ? -
|
|
I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but being 4000 miles overdue for a service is not "a little bit" and would almost certainly have invalidated the warranty ! You would probably get away with 500 miles, but no more ! Also you say that the first service was carried out "at around 10,000 miles", so was that overdue too ?
Edited by andyp on 10/08/2009 at 21:39
|
I don't want to sound unsympathetic but being 4000 miles overdue for a service is not "a little bit"
I agree.
What I also dont understand is how the OP didnt realise the car was due a service.
'' Of course I can?t remember (odds dictate) where it was done. Its not a simple case of booking one car so I must remember but I manage dozens of cars for the company and booking one is like booking any another. ''
I dont mean this as a 'dig' at the OP, but all fleet managers I know, keep at the minimum a spreadsheet updated with mileage etc on a weekly basis.
If I was the OP's boss, I would be more than a little bit concerned that the fleet manager failed to manage his own vehicle.
A very hard way to learn, and I feel for the OP.
|
|
|
|
Surely you must have some memory of where the 10,000 service was done? I know you paid cash and so credit card receipts won't help - but if you look in your car's service literature there should be a list of Jaguar dealers who existed when you bought the car (even if some have closed now).
To have a leased XKR you must have a fairly high-powered job - have you no office records of where you visited when the car was, say 3-5 months old? A little detective work will bring some dealer names up which should ring a bell.
I think Jaguar may be using the lack of evidence of this service as more of an excuse to invalidate the warranty than the late 20,000 mile service. My daughetr had to postpone the 20,000 service on her Yaris and she ended up nearly 4,000 late - nobody minded - not least because, being a Toyota, there was nothing wrong with it.
Edited by Avant on 10/08/2009 at 21:43
|
Surely you must have some memory of where the 10 000 service was done? I know you paid cash. To have a leased XKR you must have a fairly high-powered job - have you no office records of where you visited when the car was say 3-5 months old?
Is this bloke for real?
MD
|
|
Well, if this is a hoax, it's a long winded one...
|
As a general rule I always was told that they give you 1000 miles leeway regarding staying within the terms of servicing to maintain warranty for most cars.
If the terms of warranty were breached, its not really Jaguars fault as its not their responsibility to keep an eye on a cars mileage and tell people when they need to service them.
I know many people with high-powered jobs and they more than anyone are extremely organised in every area of their lives, no doubt that is partly why they are where they are so being too busy seems weak at best.
|
|
|
I dunno...if an engine can't get 4k over its service mileage without exploding it seems a bit of a poor show. And me a Jaguar owner...
However, it seems remarkable that a lease car doesn't haven't enough history to produce a bill for a service. And the dipstick and other regular checks are pretty visible under the bonnet.
|
|
The fact that it was serviced late in all probability didn't have any thing to do with the engine failure, but the terms of the warranty were still broken, hence no payout !
|
|
If cash as paid for the 10,000 mile service, what happened to the bill/receipt from whoever did the work?
|
I reckon there was never a first service and the OP is doing his upmost to shame Jag into repairing his car that had been neglected.
IMHO.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Let me get this straight:
He manages "dozens of cars for the company", he always pays cash but doesn't keep receipts?
He winds up an XKR over 6k rpm regularly enough to notice smoke and a vibration?
He's so busy being "all over the Country" but doesn't keep a diary or appointments record.
Yeah, right!
Kevin...
Edited by Kevin on 10/08/2009 at 23:30
|
|
i fell asleep trying to read it
|
Indeed, long and a bit incoherent. But reading between the lines it sounded - if true - like a story of neglect and abuse.
You hear metal-to-metal buzzing in your supercharger and don't go rushing to a Jaguar main dealer for a new one? Do me a favour as they used to say in the underworld.
|
My bet is that the 10,000 service was never carried out, then at 24,000 the engine went bang!
|
|
snip
Edited by Pugugly on 11/08/2009 at 08:59
|
If it genuinely is a lease / rent car, then his company can claim back the VAT - therefore he must have a VAT claim in - and should have, by company law, submitted an expense claim and the payment entered into the company books somewhere.
Even his P/C organiser or desk diary would tell him - as he would have been without the car that day............. Or maybe our "high powered executive" gets the bus when his car's off somewhere else.........
Methinks the author is a budding fiction writer - Ian Rankin, Glen Chandler and Patricia Cornwell would be proud of him.
|
|
|
Strange
I can even remember dealers I have been into to pick up a brochure in the last year . . . Being all over he would have had to plan ahead to see where he would be and which dealer was in the area but he does not remember doing this, or are Jaguar dealers so short of work they service cars without a booking?
24000 miles in 11 months is not all over the country all the time, I do more miles than that in a year and it is only twice what my wife does and she just commutes to work and has the occasional trip to the supermarket. Now if he had done 124000. . . . .
OP should not take this the wrong way but perhaps it would help him understand why Jaguar are so sceptical of his story?
|
What a Jackanory !
A bit like the "I never checked the oil in my car for 10,000 miles now the engine is wrecked and you should have told me and I thought xxx brand were reliable cars and now the dealer has told me to pay i don't think it's very good service just because I'm too lazy and irresponsible to look after my own toys" story we hear so often
MVP
|
I particularly liked the way "also at between 6 and 7,000 rpm there seemed to be a vibration and a metal on metal sound which I hadn?t heard before" was casually written.
Obviously running the engine at 7000RPM is an everyday thing for leased cars. :rolleyes:
|
|
|
|
|
|
Blatantly it seems, we and Jag are being lied to over this. I can't believe we're seriously expected to believe this farcical tale. "don't know where I was", "never stamped service book", "only pay in cash", "no invoices held"...
And does anybody seriously believe the warranty is as good as the last service (which was late anyway...), no matter what went before??
Surely the post was meant as a joke, but the smiley was forgotten...so I'll put one in for them...
" :) "
|
Hee hee OilBurner! :D
For what it's worth - I actually think that a service was done at around 10,000 miles - but it was probably done by his mate, after hours for under £100 and a pint - hence the amnesia and the missing stamp!
As for the question about the warranty "re-setting" itself after a service - hee hee hee! If that was the case, no-one would service their cars until the car was 2 years and 360 days old. Then they'd pop back 2 days later with a list of faults as long as their arm to sort out!
Let's face it OP - you didn't service the car properly, you thrashed the nuts off it and now you've got remorse.
|
|
|
Obviously a wind up - especially as the OP has cleared off without a trace. So, rather than getting our knickers in more over a twist than is necessary, shall we just leave this elaborate wind-baggery alone and move onto other matters?
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
Mfrs have a service database accessible to/updated by dealer, and so the 10k service would be recorded against the VIN/reg, and any Jaguar dealer could check that.
|
next time he leases a car may be he will have more respect for the dealers & the car. Well i supose if MP's can forget (Ha Ha) that they have paid off their mortage whilst still claiming for it I supose you could forget where you had your car serviced!
What a story eh, should of just put his hands up to not getting it serviced.
|
Oh, he's an MP is he?
I've forgotten which MP had 2 Jags, could it be him?
I just don't believe it!
|
|
|
|
|
