Hi,
Do you have any experience driving any of this (primary in B7/B8 Audi A4)? I know that the new 3.0TDI is probably better (acceleration, fuel consumption, torgue) but it's considerably more expensive than 3.2FSI.
Putting fuel consumption on the side as I don't drive much (5-10k a year) how would you compare these 2 engines? I'm interested mostly in Auto transmission which in case of A4 it will be tiptronic.
I tried 2.0TDI with Multitronic (CVT) but found it a bit dull compared to my Mazda 3 Sport (2.0 petrol manual). 3.0TDI is too much but 3.2FSI is much cheaper (used cars).
Edited by madeinstein on 30/07/2009 at 14:50
|
|
If the 3.0TDi has a DPF don't even consider one for 5-10k miles per year.
|
|
What's DPF? And why not? Sorry don't know much about diesels..
|
Diesel Particulate Filter.
It clogs up with slow and gentle driving or urban driving. It needs the car to be running at medium to high revs for at least 10 minutes when warm to regenerate. Most diesels running in the urban environment or doing less than 10,000 miles each year will not get to the conditions needed to regenerate and it can fail.
For this sort of mileage and a new car - buy a petrol.
|
|
|
|
Driven both and to be honest both are fantastic engines in my view. The 3.0TDI is quicker in gear but neither is a slouch. For your low mileage I'd enjoy the nicer noises of the 3.2FSI Quattro. Both engines match the ZF transmission really nicely and the car is smooth and quiet (B7 A4s).
In a B7 A4 3.0TDI I would get ~47mpg+ on a run and ~40mpg around town while you could take about 10-12mpg off that for a 3.2FSI. Lovely throaty engine sound on the 3.2FSI though, and it's much lighter at the nose than the 3.0TDI which helps handling a little.
|
In a B7 A4 3.0TDI I would get ~47mpg+ on a run and ~40mpg around town while you could take about 10-12mpg off that for a 3.2FSI.
= 35-37mpg on a run and 28-30mpg round town??
In a 3.2 litre Petrol with Slushomatic transmission??
Driven by Miss Daisy, Down a steep hill, With a very strong tailwind maybe....
...but in the real world, no chance!
|
3.2 petrol auto driving around town. 20mpg at best - probably closer to 16mpg.
On a run - no better that 30mpg unless you have a raw egg under the throttle pedal.
|
Let's assume that official figures are correct (urban). 3.2FSI=21.7mpg, 3.0TDI=32.8. After doing some maths it looks like Petrol will be around 70£ more expensive per 1000miles.
So for someone (like me) that is probably going to do a total of £25-30k in this car the difference in petrol cost is about 2k.
Looking at the Audi A4 Avant B8 used cars listings for 3.2FSI and 3.0TDI the difference in price is definetly more than 2k so that's my reasoning.
I think TDI will have higher resale value as well but still after 5 years it's probably going to be around another 2k?
So I think that if you can get 3.2FSI for about 5k less than 3.0TDI than it's probably worth it.
|
|
|
|
|
I've had 29-30mpg out of a 3.2 Avant around town albeit not with much traffic about, in traffic low 20s would be closer. I have certainly had 37mpg from one on a run from Bradford to Sussex though, and had 30mpg from an S4 on the same run.
|
I have a 3.2FSI in an A4 convertible until October and I am dreading it going back to the lease co - it is a lovely engine when tied to a multitronic box.
A friend has a 3.0TDI Quattro (tiptronic) and that out accelerates me, even though it is a heavier A6.
Fuel consumption is poor around town (once put £60 in the tank and did under 200 miles). If you can afford it, go for it, the roar when you can use it is amazing!
|
|
|
|
>>>Slushomatic transmission??
Pah whoopwhoop ;-)
The multitronic box is a gem. 51k and still no problems and it shifts quicker than a person can.
|
As the first person said, running a diesel with DPF mainly around town or on low miles would be asking for problems.
I would seriously discourage anyone from getting a DPF diesel for town miles.
You need at least 6miles to get comfortably up to operating temp. (normally i don't go above 2.2k RPM and don't floor it until warm; so plenty of opportunity for soot accumulation and EGR opens).
Carbon / soot build up happens when the exhaust temperature doesn't get high enough to burn off the excess carbon. Carbon build up happens most when you tootling around town. To prevent vast plumes of black sooty smoke exiting the car they fit these DPF (diesel particulate filters) to trap the unburn't fuel / soot.
Around town you don't reach high enough speeds, to generate sufficient heat and pressure to burn off the soot. The same can be said for short journeys, you simply don't get hot enough.
Essentially, you can end up with serious problems and expensive repairs, anything from injector or fuel pump problems due to carbon build up, DPF failure, cylinder pressure problems or even turbo failure.
A diesel is mean't to be driven with regular gusto between max torque roughly 1.9k - 2.6k. This is where pressure and air / fuel mixture is at its highest and the operating temps. get hot enough to prevent *excessive* carbon build up. It is unlikely to manifest itself in the first 60k miles but if you are unlucky despite following the below advise you could get injector spray pattern problems as soon as 35k miles if you use poor quality fuel.
You need to cruise along with the rev's at or just below peak torque in any diesel DPF car (best for economy too). You should be accelerating within and occasionally beyond max torque range right up to peak power (roughly 3.6k-4.1k RPM) and at least once a week up to red line. You also need to accelerate fairly quickly as the EGR valve will stay closed at about 60% throttle openings and over 3.5k RPM.
Long gone are the days of SDI engines or non-DPF / DNPR or even pre-VNT induction where you could truely lug around at min rev's <1.9k all day long without problems. You would just see a big plume of soot exit the exhaust when the drive decided to stick his foot down.
So for people with new diesel engines with the new emissions laws, it is fairly important you follow some guidelines if you do low(ish) non m-way miles in a diesel. M-way miles get around this problem as you tend to travel at or around max torque.
Edited by OldSkoOL on 01/08/2009 at 21:32
|
|
|
|
|
>The 3.0TDI is quicker in gear...
Aren't most cars quicker in gear?
(Sorry - blame it on my frustration at another rain-wrecked Saturday.) }:---)
|
|
What happens if you do low miles in a diesel without a dpf?
|
Possibly nothing - my Volvo D5 has survived a couple of low-mileage years while I was working close to home. It's now piling on miles again and got a very clean report at its 96,000 service last week.
I couldn't say whether the short journeys our DPF-less Toyota Verso has to endure contributed to the injector problem that produced a lot of smoke until they were replaced under warranty. (The Verso does get a long motorway trip most weeks as compensation.)
There's an important distinction here between intermittent use for long, fast journeys, and daily short runs from cold; it's the latter that will really hurt an engine, DPF or none.
|
|
|
|
|
