I bought a new Honda CR-V CDTi Sport in March 2005. A third set of front discs was necessary at 36,293 miles (suggesting they only last an average of 18,000 miles) and although Honda had extended the manufacturers warranty because of earlier problems which is still extant, Honda made me pay for the labour. The full story can be seen at {8< snip - although you're not naming/shaming here, you're doing so via the website link you posted; hence the removal}
Although there was a lot about this vehicle that I liked, the number of problems I had made me dispose of it.
I did tow a caravan but this was well within the weight range stipulated by Honda and it is regularly serviced. Whether the fact I towed made any contribution to the brake problem or whether there is an inherent problem I do not know. Similarly, whether the new model has had any improvements made to the brakes I do not know but potential purchasers need to be aware.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 14/04/2009 at 01:04
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Now at 65k miles on a petrol/auto CRV II - original discs are fine (some minor pitting on rears at last service - cleaned by driving backwards and braking a few times up a straight road in a nearby industrial estate. No towbar ;-)
Towing will cause a higher load to be placed on the brakes, perhaps to lead to faster wear. If you tow a lot up and down hills this will be hugely accelerated. If the discs were warped then this will almost certainly be due to overheating - if the calipers are working fine, then the overheating will be a result of the brakes working hard.
If there is an inherent problem I'm sure it will be well known to the people at What Caravan or similar.
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So correct me if I'm wrong - in just under 4 years you had to fork out just under £150 +VAT for three sets of disks and a rear diff oil change and got an extra service and 1 year warranty extension for your trouble?
I tend to treat both disks and pads as consumable items these days but without knowing your driving habits, mileage, how often the caravan was on the back it'd be difficult to comment on whether 18K miles was reasonable or not.
But on the face of it you seem to have been treated pretty fairly by Honda and the dealer and I'm puzzled as to why you've gone to the trouble to set up a "green ink" website. A quick look at the technical section here would give an indication of the real problems some people have to put up with with their cars!
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Now at 65k miles on a petrol/auto CRV II - original discs are fine (some minor pitting on rears at last service - cleaned by driving backwards and braking a few times up a straight road in a nearby industrial estate. No towbar ;-)
How often do I need to do this? Does it work on VWs too? Both our cars have towbars, does it really make a difference?
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I've a mechanically similar December 2005 car (2006MY but I am not aware of any declared differences). It tows 1200kg, and has probably done so for about 5,000 of its 57,000 miles.
I haven't had any engine problems, though the EGR valve was changed under a TSB. The symptom that the redesigned EGR were said to cure was "hesitation", not total no-go, according to the dealer.
I've also had the rear diff rumbling - this is a well known but fairly trivial problem that was fixed under warranty in my case, described here
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=68...7
It's still on the original discs and pads. I did have what I thought was a bit of disc warping which I was prepared to ignore for a while, but it disappeared when I changed the tyres a few weeks ago. I'm pretty sure you can get the same effect from uneven tyre wear, I've had this before.
For what it's worth, I subscribe to the well known theory that getting the discs hot followed by holding the car stationary with the footbrake promotes warping. Since I stopped doing this maybe 15 years ago I have not had the problem, despite lots of miles and a good few cars.
Your car has certainly fared worse than mine but it doesn't sound like a disaster in the class of Renault Espace afflictions, for example. The motorway incident must have been fairly scary though - bad luck doubled there.
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I hace a CRV 1 - 106,000 miles - new discs & pads fitted at 46,000 and was told "another 20,000 at this rate" at the MOT last month. Even though it's an auto, living in the country means brakes are rarely used heavily and SWMBO and I are both anticipatory drivers so little dabs on the brakes is all we ever need.
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Interesting to see the above responses.
My point is that having granted the extended warranty and the last disc problem occurring within that period and Honda having presumably accepted the discs as faulty as they replaced them, should also have covered the labour. Surely an extended manufacturers warranty is exactly what it says on the tin. If the discs warping was my fault, I cannot believe Honda would have accepted any cost of the discs.
One of the writers above in effect says I should be grateful I did not have a Renault Espace. I am!! However, by buying a Honda, I expected greater reliability than from many other makes. That was one of the main reasons for buying it in the first place.
Regarding heating the discs then holding on the footbrake, I has never been my practice to hold a car on the footbrake. I even use the handbrake at traffic lights. It is also worth mentioning that I have towed for about 30 years with a whole range of run of the mill cars (some of which I would be ashamed of today) but never had any disc problems before. I have not even had to replace many pads although I believe modern ones wear faster due to the lack of asbestos. My anual towing mileage would probably be about 2000/2500 miles out of an annual average of about 10,000. I do virtually no city stop start driving. When towing, I have never relied exclusively on the brakes but use engine braking too.
I note one writer had his rear diff sorted under warranty. I accepted I would have to pay for that but maybe that too should have been a cause for complaint in view of what he has said.
Perhaps I have been unlucky. All I know is I feel let down.
Edited by hondanightmares on 05/03/2009 at 11:50
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>However, by buying a Honda, I expected greater reliability than from many other makes. >That was one of the main reasons for buying it in the first place.
Why? did they tell you "our cars dont go wrong"? did they say"our cars are better than other cars"?
In affect you are lambasting Honda on the web for some fairly trivial issues, becuase the car you bought is not better than other cars?
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Honda motorcycles have been the same for many years - they have a perceived quality that they stick to and will not admit to any failings. Never. Someone phrased it "Living up to their own marketing image."
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For what it's worth, I subscribe to the well known theory that getting the discs hot followed by holding the car stationary with the footbrake promotes warping. Since I stopped doing this maybe 15 years ago I have not had the problem, despite lots of miles and a good few cars.
Isn't putting the handbrake on going to have the same effect ie a set of pads hard against a disc.
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depends if the handbrake acts on the main pads or if it has shoes in the hub. Plenty of rear disk brakes also have shoes for the handbrake.
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>>Isn't putting the handbrake on going to have the same effect ie a set of pads hard against a disc.
Even where the handbrake operates in this fashion, if it's on the back wheels they're much less likely to be very hot. Cars with rear discs have far more braking capacity than they need, which is reduced by a pressure regulator to prevent the rear wheels locking.
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Rear brake pressure regulators disappeared years ago with the introduction of ABS.
659.
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Are you sure 659? Certainly my Saab with ABS had a pressure regulator - it sprang a leak!
Wouldn't constant ABS operation be rather an annoying way to stop the rear wheels locking, as well as requiring full 4 wheel ABS which was some time in coming to most cars?
Not that I care about being wrong - I'm just interested...
Edited by Manatee on 05/03/2009 at 20:48
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Thinking about this, it must be EBD (electronic brakeforce distribution) rather than basic ABS which made the old style brake pressure regulator redundant, by substituting an alternative means of pressure reduction? The ABS set up can use wheel slip to regulate pressure via EBD rather than the 'cadence' behaviour. This would also negate the need for load sensing. I may be way off beam here, as I'm inventing my own brake system ;-)
Either way I think the point about lower brake effort being applied at the rear, and less heat generated, still applies.
Apologies for the drift.
Edited by Manatee on 05/03/2009 at 21:16
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hi,
I'm a newbie to this form. That's really good information regarding the brakes. Have u got anything about the rotors. if so please provide us. thanks in advance..
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I note that the OP posted this in March 2009 - 3 months after he disposed of the vehicle, altho he does not appear to say that here.
It would appear that his original posting was an excercise in self promotion of his website and views expressed. Is this a valid use of the Forum?
p
Edited by pmh2 on 30/03/2009 at 16:18
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Some cars have always had the odd brake problem, could be the driver, a faulty batch, or both.
Its nothing new, Hondas do go wrong, just not as often as some other makes.
I have towed for 30 years and never had to change a disc on any car, and not many pads at that.
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I've never had to have brake discs replaced on any car, so I'd be interested to know what prompted the disc renewal(s) on this particular vehicle. Was it because the disc thickness had worn, and if so at what thickness was renewal deemed to be necessary? What was the thickness when new?
Edited by L'escargot on 31/03/2009 at 08:45
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My confidence in Honda reliability has been shattered. I noticed that one of my (2005 Honda 2.0i VTEC Automatic) CR-V's rear calipers had seized, ruining the disk and wearing out the pads. New original Honda disks and pads (both sides, of course) were fitted at a local independent garage for a very reasonable £185, but didn't cure the problem - the pistons aren't fully retracting so the brakes are still binding, both sides now. The garage telephoned Honda Technical and they reckon new rear calipers are required - a dealer only part that costs £379+VAT each! The garage isn't convinced - they dismantled the calipers and they seem okay. Going to to try a long-shot first and replace the brake master cylinder - this is only about £98 plus about one hours labour.
All very annoying as the front discs and pads had little wear after 40,000 miles, and the rears even less. Looks as though I could be out of pocket to the tune of over £1000 to get the rear brakes fixed.
Prior to this had a few niggles fixed under warranty: leaking washer bottle, noisy diff had to be flushed and fluid replaced, and the hydraulic strut on the rear hatch failed.
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{8< snip. If you've any doubts over the authenticity of authors in this (or any other thread) then please highlight them to the moderators via the 'Report message as offensive' button for us to investigate - thanks}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 14/04/2009 at 01:07
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The garage telephoned Honda Technical and they reckon new rear calipers are required - >> a dealer only part that costs £379+VAT each!
If the work had been done at a Honda dealer I'd be fairly surprised in Honda didn't make a substantial, or even total, goodwill payment.
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Master cylinder, hmmm, how did they arrive at that?
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"Master cylinder hmmm how did they arrive at that?"
Well, it's a case of if it's not the calipers, then what is it? A fault in the master cylinder? The ABS was tested via diagnostics and found to be okay.
The best contribution Honda could make is to make sure that their spares are reasonably priced. I don't think £379+VAT per caliper is reasonable, especially if they don't even last 4 years.
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Well it's a case of if it's not the calipers then what is it? >>
Calipers not stripped and cleaned propperly at service.
Inncorrectly adjusted handbrake cables not allowing the caliper handbrake levers to return to there stops.
If it was the master cylinder why are the front calipers not sticking too?
Who services the car?
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The car is serviced by Honda - scheduled servicing for 5 years was paid up-front at time of purchase. The rear discs have internal drum brakes for the handbrake- so the calipers aren't attached to a handbrake cable.
I agree the master cylinder is a long shot.
The nearest Honda dealer isn't very local - the new pads and discs would be cooked by the time I got there. I used a local garage 1 mile away because I know and trust them, and I thought there would be a simple fix, plus time was too short to get booked into the Honda dealer as I was supposed to be going away for easter - a holiday I've had to cancel because I couldn't get the car fixed in time.
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While i am no expert, i have stripped disc calipers back in the day.
I don't see a great change in modern calipers. There is not a lot to fail apart from the seals, if the garage have stripped the calipers, and lubricated the seals, and tested the action, all should be well. I would not expect any piston wear on a recent car.
Has the brake fluid been changed? if so has a cheap fluid been used, i once knacked the brakes on a car by using "universal " brake fluid. Red gunge everywhere!
So i would have thought, if the pads are not clearing, perhaps some slight pressure from the abs unit is the most likely cause, the master cylinder is common to front and back, so i don't see the fault there.
A faulty master cylinder is more likely to fail again via the seals passing, so not giving pressure, as opposed to giving pressure.
That has been my experience in the past, but as i said i am not up to speed with modern systems.
Edited by xtrailman on 14/04/2009 at 20:22
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I'd still like to know what prompted the disc renewal(s) on this particular vehicle. Was it because the disc thickness was seen to be worn, and if so at what thickness was renewal deemed to be necessary? What was the thickness when new?
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How far away is the Honda dealer?
Is there a rear load compensation valve for the rear brakes?
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Hi All
Just signed up to HJ forum as you've all touched a nerve.
I run a small independant garage and we have just fitted rear pads to a CR-V, after the test drive we noticed the o/s/r wheel/caliper were baking hot, checked caliper and it appeared to be seized so it was replaced with a recon unit, test driven and same agian, caliper changed for another recon unit, guess wot, same outcome, we then replaced the flexi and even sent the abs pump off for testing, it came back all clear.
After refitting the pump and bleeding brakes (again) we test drove it and the o/s/r wheel still got hot but didnt seem to be as hot as before.
Honda have been completely useless and not giving us any help at all.
I feel this is a common problem as we have just MOTd A cr-v for a local garage and they have done rear discs/pads and are now having the same problem.
Any ideas would no dobt be gratefully received by all.
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My seized CR-V rear brakes problem is now solved after being off the road for 2 weeks. It transpires that Honda didn't change the brake fluid despite ticking the box on the service schedule (August 2008) - the fluid is supposed to be changed at 3 years. Dirty black fluid blocked the flexible rear hoses - new hoses have now been fitted (£62 + Vat each), the system flushed and the fluid replaced.
So, I've had to spend over £400 to have ruined discs and pads replaced, new hoses and fluid, because Honda skimped on servicing my car. I've now written to the service manager at my dealer and Honda.
xparrot - the only item left to try replacing is the brake master cylinder - there is now one in the country (£228+VAT) - as my independent garage ordered it from Honda - it took ages to arrive from Belgium, by which time the problem was solved as above and it wasn't needed.
Dox - the Honda dealer is 11 miles away - new discs and pads would have been well cooked by the time I got there, and I didn't want to arrive on the back of a recovery vehicle instead of driving there!
No, no load compensation valve.
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because Honda skimped on servicing my car.
No they didnt. Its not done automatically. Its up to you to specify it.
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Funny that you don't have to specify filling the washer bottle for £3, and that they push antibacterial air conditioning treatments and fuel system cleaners that aren't even on the service schedule; also that the OP has paid in advance for 5 years scheduled servicing. Sounds like skimping to me.
I think that's a red herring though - where did the all that muck come from in such a short time? The car can barely be 4 years old - missing the 3 year brake fluid change (which many on here think is unnecessary anyway) shouldn't be such a disaster.
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"didn't change the brake fluid despite ticking the box on the service schedule"
This suggests the author believed it had been done.
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Replacing brake fluid is specified on the schedule for Civic, at 36 months, or 37,500 miles.
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Scheduled servicing is paid for 5 years under 'Honda Happiness' - the 3 year brake fluid change was ticked as done on the August 2008 service schedule. I recently changed the very dirty cabin filters myself, only to find that they had also been ticked as being done on the 2007 service schedule.
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Since I've never had any experience of brake discs needing to be renewed because of wear and would like to expand my knowledge, I'm very interested in what constitutes "premature wear" in this instance (or in fact for any discs having needed to be replaced on Backroomers' cars) ~ how many millimetres of wear out of how many millimetres of original thickness?
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