It strikes me that a big part of Honda's recent lack of sales is because they have overpriced their cars/brands
Other manufacturers seem to be much better perceived value, eg. Seat, Hyunai, Kia
Which cars do you think are over/under priced relatively at the moment?
MVP
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Overpriced, Audi, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Land Rover. Due to these marques carrying more status than they really deserve.
Underpriced, nothing, really, there are some great bargains out there but this is because of over supply and lack of demand.
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Add VW to that list.
VW vehicles are promoted in the UK as being a premium product whereas in their home market of Germany they're just classed as nothing special.
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Goods are priced based on their desirability.
If so called prestige brands are not desirable anymore, their price will come down.
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Anybody remember the Austin 'Wedgie' - the but of many jokes including this one.
We had one as a pool car in the 1980's, it drove really smoothly, was reliable even after 150,000 miles and was really well equiped for the time.
The only bad thing about it was the badge.
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>It was reliable even after 150,000 miles and was really well equipped for the time
I'm sure it was. Problem was, quite a few of them weren't (reliable, that is).
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Goods are priced based on their desirability.
I agree.
Clever marketing builds desirability, and VW's marketeers are the best in the industry. They know their product very well, and their target audience even better.
Clean, conservative styling, expensive bits in just the right places, and almost subliminal references to quality in the advertising. People buy on emotion and impression, and will pay a premium.
The market, ultimately, is right.
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Well nothing special compared to BMW or Mercedes. My understanding is that most Germans perceive VW as the car of choice if they cannot afford the premium brands and have great loyalty to the VW brand. Ford, French cars in general and Skoda are perceived as inferior to VW
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Another vote here for Land Rover. Way over-valued.
Edited by freakybacon on 19/01/2009 at 14:00
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Bet you would not say that if you found yourself in a ditch miles from anywhere with no one else around but a Land Rover owner who also happened to have a rope with him!!!
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a Land Rover owner who also happened to have a rope with him!!!
Is that for when it breaks down, again? ;-)
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It strikes me that a big part of Honda's recent lack of sales is because they have overpriced their cars/brands
Hondas recent lack of sales is no worse than anyone else's. The car industry in general is Toast.
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My 2 German colleagues say that BMW is no more or less posh than a Vauxhall/Ford in their opinion. I remember a few years ago Technics were a big brand and perceived to be better than Panasonic in the UK but in Japan it was the opposite and Panasonic was the better brand.
It is simply Marketing/Advertising.
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Quite so. I visit Serbia a fair bit, and over there SEAT is seen as a premium/sports brand, and their models are priced above VW, which is seen as a bit of a poverty brand due to Golfs having been built in Sarajevo for so many years. Also KIA and Hyundai are priced at the same levels as the brands we would consider to be "middling", eg Ford, Opel etc. they are not considered to be lesser brands in any way.
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In the UK in the 1990s, Toyotas were perceived as rather dull, a cut below Ford.
But in Ireland, Toyotas were seen as a much better brand, and commanded higher prices both new and used. I think that a lot of this may be down to the different structures of car ownership. A lot of UK cars are bought for company fleets, where long-term reliability is not an issue -- a car just needs to work reliably for the time it's on the fleet, and then to be resold for not too much less than the huge discount it was bought at. But in Ireland, most new cars are sold to private buyers, who couldn't afford to put the finer points of style and handling over long-term reliability, and Toyota have been the market-leaders ever since they displaced Ford in the 1980s, selling on reliability.
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It's interesting how different brands are positioned/perceived.
In the US things like Volvos for decades have been marketed to and bought by thinking/liberal/left leaning/academic types - made by people in black turtlenecks and small round glasses who vote for Democrats and live in university towns...whereas in the 80s here VOlvos were aimed at and bought by solidly middle class conservative types and although a bit sportier now are seen as sensbile carriages for middle class off spring albeit a bit more arriviste than 80s customers.
Also Subarus in the US are much more at the outdoorsy intelligensia types who live in the outdoorsy parts of the US eg Colorado/Pacific NW and NEw England. rather than farmers (who drive proper pick up trucks with throbby V8s) - there's less of the cult following here I think of the image around Subaru.
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Can't disagree with what contributors have said so far and I'm fascinated by 'brand perception' something which you all allude to. I've thought that Peugeots are overpriced for some time, especially the 308. Maybe it's my perception here but I can't see a 308 in the same ball park as a Golf. Am I being seduced by general hype around VW's??
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Golf's an interesting one - What Car? tested it against a BMW 1 series and an Audi A3.
Not against a Focus, Astra, or any other Euro or Japanese/Korean hatch.
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Golf's an interesting one - What Car? tested it against a BMW 1 series and an Audi A3. Not against a Focus Astra or any other Euro or Japanese/Korean hatch.
When your revenue stream depends as much on full-page advertisements from the major manufacturers as does a publication like What Car?, it probably pays to compare their products against the sort of competition they would like to be compared with.
VW would much prefer a report which says "not really quite as good as a BMW" than one which says "overall, about the same as a Ford Focus". The former allows them to charge more than the Focus, but the latter doesn't.
He who pay the piper, etc ....
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I often hear this argument about BMW being considered no better than Ford in their home market of Germany, it sounds like sour grapes from the anti-BMW brigade.
The Mondeo may or may not be a match for the 3-series, but there is nothing to compare at the higher end.
M5? M6? 7-series? Z4M? How do these rate against the current Ford line up?
I don't own a BMW, but I have nothing against them and would always take one over an equivalent Ford.
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My view is simple:
any brand that has poor reliability is worthless no matter what others think.
So Renault are carp and are L Rover , Fiat and a few others incl Mercedes Benz.
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I often hear this argument about BMW being considered no better than Ford in their home market of Germany it sounds like sour grapes from the anti-BMW brigade.
There was a press article not too long ago about German Army higher ranks who were alledgedly up in arms as their staff cars had been downgraded from Passats to BMW 3 Series.
Edited by Bill Payer on 20/01/2009 at 12:26
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The former allows them to charge more than the Focus but the latter doesn't.
According to the (german) price lists of VW and Ford, the Focus is cheaper than the Golf. If, however, you add the air conditioning to the Focus that the Golf has as standard, the Focus is actually more expensive.
Of course the relevance of this comparison is questionable as noone pays list price anyway.
Edited by Bagpuss on 20/01/2009 at 09:13
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Here are by top fives
Over Valued
1. Mercedes - living off past reputation for quality
2. VW - ditto
3. Land Rover - big brand premium for noveau riche townies
4. Audi - the brand snobs choice, the new BMW
5. BMW - great cars but a big premium for the name
Under Valued
1. Kia - the new Japanese in quality
2. Hyundai - ditto
3. Skoda - still a big discount because of the name
4. Seat, honest cars at honest prices
5. Mitsubishi - good value small cars
MVP
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Under Valued
>>3. Skoda - still a big discount because of the name
If a car is sold at discount it is not undervalued; it has been overvalued in the first place.
alfalfa
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1. Kia - the new Japanese in quality
The Kia Carnival is the car with the most faults in the age groups 2-3 years, 4-5 years and 6-7 years according to the german TUEV Report 2009, even beating the Renault Laguna and Chrysler PT Cruiser.
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Cars are priced according to a combination of the manufacturing cost (including design/development costs and other overheads), the quantity expected to be sold, and the profit that the company wants to make.
Edited by L'escargot on 20/01/2009 at 09:52
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Extract from a conversation between two workers on the Cheshire Collective Peoples Food Production Farm circa January 2039.
- I see the new tractor has arrived.
- Yes, that will make things easier, the old one hasn't worked for five years.
- I'm going to try to get the job of driving it, it looks cool.
- Do you know how to drive?
- No, but I can remember my Dad having a car and I think I'd pick it up.
- Your Dad had a car, what, of his own?
- Yep, he even used to worry about what his neighbours would think if it had the wrong manufacturers name stamped on it !
- No !
- No, really, they used to talk about "brands" and some of them being more desireable than others.
- Weird !
- Yeah I know.....My mum had a car too actually.
- You are joking !?
- Honestly she did. Great big thing with four wheel drive like that tractor.
- Did you live on a farm?
- No, it was just a fashion thing.
- Oh right........but surely she needed it to get over rough ground or something?
- Not really, there were a few speed humps but that's about all.
- Speed humps ? What were they for?
- To stop people speeding
- What, you mean people deliberately broke the law ? Weren't they executed ?
- No, they fined them.
- Fined?
- You know, took money from them if they did wrong.
- What's money?
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 20/01/2009 at 12:25
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I think Mitsubishi's are under-rated cars. They are decried as dull and boring, but they seem to be really reliable, decently styled motors to me. Both the Colt and Lancer are good value new, and cheap when sold used. The FTO is a great looking sports car - an old design that would still look good if they made them new today. The Shogun seems to be the only one that really caught on, though.
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The OP, mentioned Honda in particular.
I wonder if Honda's deliberate aiming of their mainstream Civic at the younger market may have alienated their very traditional and loyal older buyers, don't shoot the messenger this is a conversation i had with a chap who was a sales manager at a successful dealer, he seemed to know his stuff.
On the question of overpricing, no such thing if somebody's barmy enough to pay something like 25 or 30K or more for a specced up Mini, then it must be priced correctly.
If somethings fashionable it will always be at a premium, you only have to remember those idiot parents who bought their equally daft kids so called designer trainer shoes at £80 plus.
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you only have to remember those idiot parents who bought their equally daft kids so called designer trainer shoes at £80 plus.
Bless 'em, don't knock it !
;-))))
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