Hello,
My Accord 2.0 SE Auto (70,000) had been behaving perfectly up until a few weeks ago.
I had it serviced at my usual Honda dealer (as I have every time) and also had the cambelt changed at the same time as specified in the service details. When I picked the car up all was fine. The very next morning I drove off as usual and got a very big shock as the gearbox changed from 1st to 2nd gear. Instead of the usual smooth change it lurched forward and thumped into 2nd gear literally shoving myself and wife forward in our seats. It did this a couple more times from 1st to 2nd although I was much more gentle with the throttle so it wasn't quite so bad. From 2nd to 3rd was slightly jerky but not too bad. Once the engine started warming up (coolant gauge moving to warm) the problem disappeared and all changes were nice and smooth again. All was well until the next time I started from cold (after standing for several hours) and the same thing happened. Always for the first few minutes gradually easing as engine warmed up.
I returned the car to the dealer and left it overnight so they could try it with a totally cold start the next morning. The service manager admitted it was a little sluggish until warmed up but felt the gearchange was ok for a car of about 70,000 miles. He said they checked all that they had done at the service and cambelt change and everything was in order and all settings were correct. He said the gearbox hadn't been touched as the service didn't require it to have oil topped up etc.
Basically he said car was fine - no problem!
The problem did continue exactly as before. I should have gone back again but the dealer is some 45 miles from where I live Croydon (misplaced loyalty to the garage I bought the car from) and I let it be and just put up with the problem.
Six weeks later over the Christmas period after a trip to Devon and back I drove the 3 miles or so to Croydon and the car was behaving worse. Even having warmed the gearchanges were jerky (all of them now) and occasionally it would pull away very sluggishly.
Finally I contacted my local Honda Dealer and took the car in for an early morning checkup again leaving the car overnight. I also noticed an ominous damp patch on my drive.
Next day the garage phoned and said there was no oil in the gearbox at all. It had pushed out of the drive shaft seal and the bearings in the gearbox were shot. They have sent it off for a £1700 rebuild.
Finally my questions are:
Could the original Honda garage have done something to cause the gearbox to fail?
After all the car was fine until the very day after the cambelt change and service. Is anything they would do at the service likely to cause the original symptoms?
Do I have a leg to stand on if I go back to them and complain or even go to Honda themselves?
It seems to me more than just a coincidence that the problem occured straight after the service and now the gearbox is damaged.
Any suggestions would be most welcome.
Thanks for reading all this.
DJS
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It is nothing much to do with Honda, but the first dealership was negligent in not checking the gearbox oil level and telling you that everything was normal and you suffered a significant loss because of their negligence. I would write to them asking for £1500 and explain that you will pay £200 as the gearbox will be reconditioned. If they don't pay, file a claim with the County Court on the Small Claims track. At most you will lose the ~£80 fee.
Edited by Hamsafar on 05/01/2009 at 20:12
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I would have said that part of a standard service is to check the level of the gearbox oil, whether it be manual or auto. The fact that you took it back for them to look at presumably means that they still failed to check the oil level in the gearbox. They sound pretty negligent from where I am standing for not spotting the problem, even though it is unlikely to be anything to do with anything they did whilst your car was in the garage. A strange coincidence though.
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I very much doubt it would be part of the service - hardly anything is done at a "service" now, and checking ATF level is a bit of a of a palava. However, you would have expected the dealer to check it if a problem was reported.
I'd hold off the heavy legal stuff - there's a story, perhaps buried in this forum somewhere, about Honda replacing an auto box on an Accord at 7 years saying something like "our auto boxes don't fail".
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There is a comment in CBCB about autoboxes being replaced.
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Thanks for the replies.
One thing I forgot to mention was that I did check the gearbox oil just before the trip to Devon at Christmas and there was oil up to the full mark on the dip stick then. I think the long journey to Devon and back was what caused the gearbox to finally shed its oil. As I say there was a patch on the drive immediately after returning from Devon.
Its the fact the original dealer (previously very good) said the car was ok, even though it was misbehaving, and then a few weeks later the gearbox completely dies that upsets me. I will contact them when I get the car back repaired but don't hold out much hope. No doubt they will say I should have gone back to them again!
I will also contact Honda. I don't consider 70,000 miles a good life for a Honda auto box in a car that has been fully serviced all its life and always by the original dealer that first sold the car from new.
Once again thanks for your replies. Any other suggestions gratefully received.
DJS
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Hi Bill,
Sorry to sound ignorant but what is CBCB? and how do I get to it?
Cheers,
DJS
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As stated many times before - Honda along with most manufacturers are over optimistic about ATF oil changes and they only change the ATF in the sump and not the old dirty stuff in the torque convertor. I change my ATF every two years using a full flush to change ALL the old ATF after two very expensive re-builds. BTW I would check the price of a new box as when I last queried Honda quoted me £1250 for a Prelude box (a few years ago), which is significantly cheaper than a re-build. Also, they don't tend to be very sucessful.
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Hi Chuckie888,
My local Honda garage that has arranged the gearbox rebuild - they send it to an independant specialist apparently, was originally quoting me £6000 for a brand new gearbox fitted!! I don't know if they were having me on but I was on the verge of ditching the car for good there and then! I think £1700 for the rebuild is steep but I felt I had no choice in the circumstances.
I'm a bit perturbed that you don't reckon a rebuild is often very successful. How long do they last on average? Has anyone else out there had an auto gearbox rebuild?
Thanks Galaxy for letting me know what CBCB means.
Cheers all,
DJS
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Just like others I was very sceptic about so called amazing results of an additive, but very detailed and precise description of the product available on line inclined me to try ceramizers out. I possess two really different cars, namely: Citroen Xantia 1.8 16V hatchback and Honda Civic 1.5 16V sedan, both with similar mileage around 120-140 000 km. I did not look for panacea for enhancing of compression pressure, as both engines and are in good working order, although Honda to be honest performs better than a French car.
Xantia from 1996 with mileage of 143 000 km took on average 10.5l/100 km at urban driving, while Honda from 1990 with mileage of 122 000 km took 7.5 l/100 km-what is no strange for those with automotive know-how. The Japanese car usually consume less petrol but thanks to application of the additive I obtained the following:
Honda- fuel economy from 7.5 to 6.6 l per 100 km
Xantia- fuel economy from 10.5 l to 9 l per 100 km !!! in case of both cars an engine operation got noiseless and got more dynamic and an oil consumption in Citroen decreased completely (around 0.4 l/1 000 km). This was taken for granted even at Citroen garage (but as form me was very irritating), while Honda does not take any oil since the purchase.
To sum up:
I am very satisfied and content from purchase of ceramizers, and generally I recommend them to everybody being sure that anybody maight be disappointed.
Unfortunately I do not have time to make tests as I am very busy and All I need to know is to be sure that my engines is OK, and to be honest I do not remember when the last time I had any failure or problem with starting in winter and temperature of minus 20. I am very glad that I purchased this product, and I got comfort and cheaper maintenance. Really a great item.
Greetings and good luck
Tom
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My first box re-builds only lasted 2K each time before they went bang again! Luckily that firm is no longer in business. My last re-build was from the HJ recommended King Automatics in Epsom. He knows his Hondas but had to source some parts second hand and so it whines more than I expected. I don't drive the Prelude much now, but I have more faith in it than the original re-builds.
I saw an Accord box on eBay and bought it as a spare for my Accord, just in case, but following my new ATF flushing regime I have had no failures on it. Maybe you could source a second hand box as these cars aren't worth much now. That's what I would do.
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Hi Chuckie888,
The box has been taken out by Newton Honda (South Croydon) and sent off to a specialist. I don't know who, but I just hope that Newton Honda would use a trusted firm.
Time will tell - it could possibly be Kings of Epsom, they're not that far away!
Newtons are no doubt charging a big premium to get the job done but I have no choice.
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Just to pick up a point from further up the thread - in my experience the ATF level in Honda autoboxes is very easy to check.
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Make sure they refill only with genuine (expensive) Honda ATF - don't be fobbed off with anything else, as there's nothing else that meets the Honda spec.
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If it's a seal that's gone, is there a possibility that it was jacked on the engine or gearbox by mistake?
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Hey djs
Just been reading your forum posting - Ive got the same problem, and its just after a service by a Honda Dealer, summin strange going on here?
Did you ever get to the bottom of this problem, do you know why it happened just after the service?
Your advice would be appreciated, just cant afford a new gear box - could a stitch in time save my gear box? Any tips?
Cheers
WE
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Following a web search I was drawn to this site by a forum posting by djs titled Auto Gearbox Failure after service. I have exactly the same problem.
My 1999 3.0 Accord Coupé went in for a 90k service and new discs, Honda recommended the gearbox oil should also be changed so I took this advice. When I got the car back the gear changes from 2nd to 3rd were late and then kicks in with a jolt, but only when the engine is cold, this rectify itself when the engine warms up ? then its fine.
I contacted Honda following the service, the car was with them 2 days to allow them to try it from cold. They admitted there was a problem but said it was nothing to with them ? which was expected I guess!
The only explanation they could give me was that the new oil was thicker than the old oil and the gear box being old was on the way out anyway, replacing the oil brought a problem that was about to happen forward as it was aggravated by the new thicker oil? Does anyone know if this really can happen? He admitted he dint know a lot about auto boxes and it felt like I was getting the brush off.
Just wish they had warned me this could happen, instead of just advising me it needed doing?
I've checked the gear box oil level and it seems fine, and clean. No leaks either, and its got a full service history.
Just wonder if anyone out there can advise? I don't want my gearbox to completely fail like what happened to djs on the other forum posting, is there anything I can try to correct this ? or is my auto box about to die?
Edited by Pugugly on 17/06/2009 at 21:17
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