I was driving my wife's car yesterday when I was hit by a van driver who veered onto my side of the road (either fell asleep or was answering a phone call). I managed to take some evasive action and got away mostly unhurt. The car took a pounding but is just about driveable.
To make matters worse, the driver of the van didnt stop and drove on hoping to get away with it. I managed to turn the car around and chase him and finally stopped him about 0.5 miles away.
Called the police who weren;t interested, never mind that this was a driver who didnt stop as the law requires and would have got away if it wasnt for some spirited drivng.
We exchanged insurance details and it remains to be see whether their insurers own up to liability. I have motor legal protection and intend to pursue them in courts to recover my damages.
Question - What, if anything can I do to ensure that this driver is brought to book and gets an endorsement on his license and faces up to this failures to obey the law.
{subject header expanded to hopefully make less vague a question}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 02/12/2008 at 00:06
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On what stated there appears to have been offences of careless driving and failing to stop by the other driver. Possible document offences? Regarding the failing to stop there is a get out if he can claim that he was unaware an accident occurred.
Non injury accidents - there is a reluctance for Plod to get involved other than ensuring details are exchanged which in my opinion is wrong. My day we investigated every accident and took appropriate action through the Courts but we did authorise our own prosecutions.
One of the problems facing Plod is the reluctance of CPS to authorise prosecution unless the case is an absolute stone waller so he doesn't want to prepare a file that is going to end up in the WPB.
What to do then?. Private Prosecution? Nigh on virtually impossible now adays without legal assistance and high cost.
One could consider trying to take the matter further through Plod and visit to Cop Shop[ and talk with a Senior/Duty Officer to see if they are prepared to get the ball rolling in view of the two serious offences committed.
Otherwise its a matter for the Insurance to sort out without a criminal court being involved.
dvd
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It sounds a grim picture indeed DVD, does the police not have a moral responsibility to oversee an accident of this nature to ensure the innocent at least get a fair deal, even if there is no nick prosecutable?
Do the police no longer protect the innocent in this country?
If i was an officer i'd want to have a good look at the offender at the time to find out just why he thought it worth driving off.
This was hardly a silly rear end shunt that happen by the hundred at roundabouts etc where decent drivers stop and exchange details.
Ryder you have my sympathy, i'm glad no one was hurt and thats no thanks to the van jockey trying to do a runner.
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Never mind 'calling the police' (You may have got a non-police call taker who fails to understand the finer points of law) Go to a Police station, preferably the one for the area in which it happened, and report it as a 'fail to stop' accident. Be firm and state that you allege the other driver drove carelessly, then left the scene. That you caught him does not negate his responsibility to stop AT THE TIME. Ask for the name of the officer in the case. If you are told that an officer is not yet allocated, ask how they intend to advise you who the officer will be. Get some sort of reference number AND telephone number for the section that will be dealing. You are more than entitled to a clear explanation of the outcome. If you're not able to get one, complain. Plod should not fear a complaint as they will be able to account for their actions. After all this, it's the circumstances that will dictate whether there is a prosecution. CPS are the authority, not the Police, and it may not get past them for a whole host of reasons.
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Was there any evidence of the collision left at the scene that you could photograph and were there any witnesses to your encounter when you got him to stop?
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does whiplash count as an injury?
if so.........
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I can understand the police not wanting to get involved in an accident where no-one is injured - quite a good thing since most of us can let our concentration lapse occasionally. But failing to stop after an accident is a serious offence and I agree that you should go to a police station and take it further. Make sure you see a proper, full-time police officer.
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"I can understand the police not wanting to get involved in an accident where no-one is injured - quite a good thing since most of us can let our concentration lapse occasionally."
The Police do not want to be involved in trivial scratches and broken number plates but not so very long ago a Police Officer would attend and assess the situation. If it was only minor or a minor lapse in concentration then discretion would kick in and they could just facilitate details being exchanged.
If it was a bit more serious they would take the necessary action.
Many many times I have recommended " Minor error of judgment/lapse in concentration. The accident (collisions now) does not fall within prosecution criteria (as laid down by the CPS) recommend NFA"
The benefit is that having a Police Officer at the scene who can view all the attendant circumstances and evidence is that the guilty party is unlikely to wee backwards when it comes to the crunch as there is an independent professional witness who should have a record of the circumstances and admissions would have been made even if a report had not been completed.
Edited by Fullchat on 30/11/2008 at 18:18
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...........and dozens of rank due cares are cuffed......
My old Inspector used to say in dealing with accidents (the proper way) we acted for Joe Public in gathering the evidence. If he was in the right to prosecute the wrong doer and if in the wrong to learn him a lesson.
dvd
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Odd that someone can commit a fairly serious hit and run and police aren't interested, yet when a guy teaches his mate "how to park" in an empty car park at 2 am, (see recent thread), he has the book thrown at him for no insurance.
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Maybe they didn't have a Scooby or Evo on hand?
In Police Interceptors they seem to be willing to speed left right and centre just because a number plate flashes up as an issue - might not be but will chase anyway.
Scandalous that they are not interested in a hit and run.
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In Police Interceptors they seem to be willing to speed left right and centre
But then at the end of such programs, you are told that the CPS did not prosecute, or that the suspect was released without charge, or if taken to court was fined a derisory sum, etc.
See report from last week:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7751655.stm
"Thursday, 27 November 2008
Increasing numbers of suspects are being released on police bail because of delays in making charging decisions, a report has warned. ... "
Edited by jbif on 01/12/2008 at 17:38
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...........and dozens of rank due cares are cuffed......
You are right DVD. When I first started on the road; and as you will recall, every RTA (
RTC in new money) was committed to paper, statements recorded and prosecutions pursued.
Then two things happened. Demands for service and 'Prioritisation' increased over the years, and the CPS where formed. They produced their 'Prosecution Guidelines', designed to decrease their workloads and make them look good. Things went downhill from then onwards.
As for not dealing with a 'hit and run' or blatant Criminal Damage that is scandalous.
It has been recommended here before but if you want a true picture on the reality of why there are insufficient resources have a read of Wasting Police Time. It really does paint a true picture of what modern day basic policing is about.
Edited by Fullchat on 01/12/2008 at 20:47
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CPS ... produced their 'Prosecution Guidelines'
What would these be then?
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www.cps.gov.uk/Publications/prosecution/pbd_policy...l
That should keep you amused for a while!! Sections 4 onwards cover some of the basics.
My earlier post mentioned mentioned minor shunts as a result of 'Minor errors of judgment/lapse in concentration' also included are single vehicle collisions in adverse weather conditions. These are not specifically mentioned but if you study the guidelines you see that they do not fit their criteria hence are not pursued.
Edited by Fullchat on 01/12/2008 at 21:05
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>> CPS ... produced their 'Prosecution Guidelines' >> What would these be then? >
Forum search [via google !] reveals these two threads:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=66...5
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=67424&...e
However, the CPS links therein are now dead. Find the current ones here:
www.cps.gov.uk/legal/index.html
www.cps.gov.uk/professionals.html
Edited by Webmaster on 05/12/2008 at 23:41
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Ah.
I still don't see how making the prosecution process transparent can be interpreted as a being "designed to decrease [CPS] workloads and make them look good" and caused things to go "downhill from then onwards."
Probably just me.
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Simple when you see through the flannel.
1. Where the CPS will only run a case where there is a 'realistic chance of a conviction' (Think it stands at about 80%). That's on the evidence presented and not what the magistrates could read between the lines and let them make a decision. Requirement for independent witnesses etc. Then all the other stuff is a non starter.
2. Where once everything was put on paper and the Police prosecuted, far far more cases went to court. The CPS guidelines have reduced the amount of motorists prosecuted by excluding what they have classified as 'minor errors of judgement/lapse in concentration' from prosecution. There is an element of 'Careless Driving' or greater in every collision.
Reminds me of when the Police did prosecute and some and maybe some of the evidence was not there in black and white but it was clear for all to see. You could pop and see the Police Prosecutor and explain the circumstances. "OK son we'll give it a run."
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Several years ago I had a car "keyed" in a car park. The culprit then got into his own car and drove off. A very public spirited guy witnessed all this and left a report at the car park office along with a note on car. I took a copy of the report to plod but even with an independant witness they could not have cared less. They made it very clear that this was so minor as to not be worth any time. Different circumstances to your own I admit but with the same level of police cooperation. I looked into private prosecution but without a police case there was very little hope of success, just a prospect of a huge solicitor bill. My advice? Take solace from the fact that you hold the moral high ground. Nils illegitimate carborundum and all that.
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And yet one Police Service, can't rememebr which, says that every victim of a crime will be visited by an officer. Heavy on manpower but getting close to the service we would hope to get.
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Thanks Guys.
I will be speaking to the Citizens Advice Bureau in the first instance to see what they have to say. Then its down to the Plod to see what they have to say at the local police station.
According to www.direct.gov.uk, between 5-10 points can be added to the drivers license for failing to stop at the scene of an accident.
THe driver was initially aggressive and said he drove because he thought I hadnt stopped (ridiculous excuse). This manager who attended the scene (the van belonged to a delivery company) put some sense into him and he did apologise after all.
I am not going to let this one drop.
Meanwhile, BMW have taken control of the situation and my wife will be getting at 320d as a replacement while her car is being looked at. All thanks to a bunch of ambulance chasers getting on the bandwagon. I hate the guys with a passion, but with the government, CPS and Police not intersted, its obvious where this one will go.
Will keep you guys posted.
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Quite honestly I think your journey to the CAB will be wasted. I don't believe motoring matters are in their remit - but I might be wrong.
If you feel strongly enough you first port of call is the Police Station. You my wish to make a formal complaint to try and ascertain why you did not get a response which is a fair request. There may be reasons, which you may or may not agree with, for non attendance which you will have to accept. Nothing is going to change the facts of the collision. Nothing is going to change for you.
You have had admittance of liability for the damage. Even the Manager supported you. Let your insurance company sort it out.
If you get your vehicle repaired at the other parties expense then you are fortunate. You were lucky to trace the vehicle and driver.
Getting the Police involved will not help your claim to any extent. Infact the driver, under Police interview, may even make allegations against you, which isn't going to help your case. Without independent witnesses I'm afraid its your word against his.
Think it through rationally and take whatever option you think is going to be the best outcome for you with the least path of resistance. For me it would be to get my vehicle repaired at someone else's expense.
Sometimes the desire for revenge overrides rationale thinking.
Edited by Fullchat on 01/12/2008 at 22:47
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Fullchat - I hear what you're saying.
I'll see what CAB have to say.
Right now the ambulance chasers have agreed to supply me with a replacement car. There was an apology but no admissions of guilt and fleet insurers are notorious of changing their tune, so perhaps its best to wait till I have some acceptance of liability after which I can raise the issue again.
Thanks
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to privately prosecute in the small courts only costs a relatively small fixed sum, and for claims below £5 k costs cannot be awarded , so even if you lose , all you have lost money - wise is your original application fee , which are on a sliding scale between approx £30 - £120
You do not need a solicitor, English law is very simple.
All you have to do is state what happened just as you did above on a simple form and when it comes to the hearing ( if they haven't settled by then ) just repeat the facts in court, and you should win, and if they are a solvent business then they will pay in full.
all the forms available from the ' court service ' online .
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>>to privately prosecute in the small courts only costs a relatively small fixed sum, and for claims below £5 k costs
That's claiming against the other party for money; not prosecuting privately!
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Ryder, if I were you, I'd forget about it. Sit down in an armchair with a bottle of your favourite and be thankful that (1) insurance are dealing with it; (2) that the other party is almost certainly going to pay for it; (3) you're not driving your blood pressure up higher to no avail.
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Ryder if I were you I'd forget about it. Sit down in an armchair with a bottle of your favourite and be thankful that (1) insurance are dealing with it; (2) that the other party is almost certainly going to pay for it; (3) you're not driving your blood pressure up higher to no avail.
I would still write to the Chief Constable that a policeman was not sent to a hit and run!
No damage, other than the car, but Police should attend serious events such as hit & run.
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