Could not agree more DP. I bet the low/full are lower than they might be to give some extra room for this increase in oil level.
I won't panic as it's not my car and can do nothing about it - I have it until October 2011.
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It's news to me that Vauxhall have been hiding this problem too. I knew all about their desperate attempts to try and make the DPFs work - particularly on Zafiras - but hadn't come across the oil dilution issue.
I'm not buying their "aborted re-gen" excuse either. Knowing what effect even tiny amounts of oil getting into a diesel's combustion chamber have, it's inconceivable that there are significant quantities in the cylinder at key-off.
This must be post-injection diesel leaking straight past the rings during the entire re-gen; maybe the, clearly non-viable, coated DPFs require more neat diesel to burn than the additive FAPs do. I've never heard of anyone draining a Peugeot.
At this rate; any DPF-equipped car will soon become unsaleable - it only takes a few fronts to get bitten and the word quickly gets round.
Reconditioning Mazda diesels looks like a very good trade to get into. Even the non-DPF ones don't last - whither diluted diesel too....
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Pat
I seem to have hijacked your thread a little as you're after advice on engine oil changes. All I wanted to do was say mine is doing the same and the fact there is the X on the dipstick means it is a known problem.
Now how diesel can get into the engine oil I'm not sure.
Depending on how quickly yours is diluting the oil this is going to be very expensive. I cannot see how a car can be allowed to do this and they will claim you're driving it wrong.
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Significant quantities of fuel in engine oil will cause accelerated engine wear and premature bearing failure.
659.
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Sorry to poke my nose in but has any owner reported this to Watchdog? I'm not suggesting that this will make Mazda fix the problem but it may shed further light on the scale of the matter and warn potential buyers away.
Steve.
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They're not exactly hiding this problem it seems. My dealer was upfront and found this on the Mazda Australia site:
tinyurl.com/6ycjv6 (Mazda Australia website)
So ... first car I have come across where you need to check the oil level for rising! I'd add a :-) but it's not funny. I know it's diesel getting into the oil (somehow) and must be affected by short journeys and the DPF process.
Rob
Edited by rtj70 on 20/11/2008 at 09:07
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A question I'd like to ask Mazda....
If my oil level is below the full mark on a diesel car can I top up with diesel? If not what is diluting the oil (we know it is diesel)? And what if I topped up the engine oil (with oil) even though it's above Full. Even going as far as the X level?
A question for the lease company tomorrow I think. It could be a can of worms they know nothing about (yet) but might find some answers.
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Forgot for the benefit of Pat earlier that a dealer needs to reset something to do with DPF after an oil change.
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its not that vauxhall have been having a problem with these vehicles, its the vehicles that dont get an italian tune up now and again admitadlly the drivers need to more educated/informed by the dealer/salesman/saleswoman, that said i dont think that they are likely to draw attention to anything that would lose them the deal and in the present climate any sale would be welcome. Regards TB
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A problem noticed on the VAG forums is that an Italian tune up (i.e. high rpm / lots of throttle) is NOT the best way to regenerate the DPF.
For the coated DPFs, they seem to require consistent medium / high exhaust gas temps for 5 or so mins to get the soot coking nicely. This means steady driving at 2,000 to 2,500rpm (around the peak of the engine's torque curve).
Lots of revs and throttle just creates more soot, just at the point you're trying to get it to regenerate ... by all means give it a quick blast to clear the injectors, but then the car needs steady driving to complete the burn cycle.
The new Mondeos seem to have a failsafe "auto regen" function that happens every 400 miles or so, whether it's needed or not. In my own car, these regens take 5 minutes maximum.
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The Mazda6 manual mentions that if the car has not had a change for the DPF to regen the light will come on and you need to drive it at around 50mph+ for a distance (how far or long I'd guess until the light goes off?) so it can regenerate. So it seems to have a failsafe mechanism to me...
... but why does the oil get diluted? And what impact will it have long term? There's a mark on the dipstick you're not meant to fill past but the X mark is a lot lot higher up.
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>>... but why does the oil get diluted?
All oil in all engines gets diluted.
All engines burn oil - no exceptions.
What normally happens is that the heavier fractions of the fuel and combustion products that blowby and end up in the oil are balanced by the amouunt of oil burnt by the engine. So, although the level on the dipstick remains the same, it's not all oil!
All that's happening is that DPF regeneration is pushing this equilibrium towards the sump filling.
So, as long as Mazda's instructions are followed, I don't think there are long term implications because it's not too much different from any other engine - it's just that you can see the oil is diluted.
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As Screwloose said above, the piston rings should stop engine oil coming up into the combustion chamber AND diesel oil going down into the sump. The rings are obviously not doing this, which is a design defect.
I'm amazed this isn't leading to hydraulic lock with unatomised diesel fuel in the cylinders ...
I didn't realise the Mazdas have a warning lamp to tell the driver when the DPF needs a regen. VAG cars with DPF have a similar system.
IIRC the first warning light comes on in VAG cars when the DPF is about 50% full. The second warning (i.e. take the car to the dealer) is when the DPF is 75% full.
According to some datalogging I saw on a VAG forum, just 8 minutes driving at 2,000rpm was sufficient to take the "soot loading" in the DPF from 55% to under 10%. Of course, each manufacturer's set up is going to be different but it's a guideline.
What's odd with the Ford DPF implementation is, there are NO warning lights. That's what I mean about a failsafe -- the ECU seems to self-regenerate the DPF with or without the driver's help. I'd really like to get some more info from Ford about this.
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The Mazda DPF does a regen automatically (if it can - depends on driving) and only puts on the light when it's nearly full and must do a regen. If you ignore it I think it flashes which means a trip to a dealer.
What I still find alarming is the distance between the Full mark and the X is quite large. A lot larger than between E and F. The manual says never fill past F as that can damage the engine. Hmm
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>>As Screwloose said above, the piston rings should stop engine oil coming up into the combustion chamber AND diesel oil going down into the sump. The rings are obviously not doing this, which is a design defect.
No, engines don't work quite like that. If no oil reached the upper ring, it would sieze solid in no time.
All engines burn oil, and they all pass fuel and other products down into the oil. How else does oil get black?
For so long, the equilibrium between these two processes has been so well struck that people have begun to think that some engines don't burn oil - but it's a myth.
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N_C, I agree. I didn't explain myself clearly enough. What I intended to say was, the rings should stop oil coming up (or fuel going down) in quantity.
In this case it seems that significant quantities of diesel are ending up in the sump (judging from the dipstick markings mentioned, it could be getting on for a pint or more).
I'm no engine designer, but I can't imagine that's good for longevity.
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Rather than a problem with the engine's piston rings, I would be more inclined to think that Mazda have done something a bit silly with the overfuelling that they using to burn off the DPF, and perhaps no piston rings could hold back the amount of fuel they're swilling down there.
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True, in which case it should be a simple adjustment of a couple of parameters in the ECU to fix it ...
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I wonder if its a more universal issue, regarding derv contamination of sump oil?
I posted this on another forum 4 weeks ago and none of the resident techs fully answered the rings question.
quote
" How does injection of fuel occur in regeneration on the DPF equipped, -------
Are the engine fuel injectors spraying fuel into the bores on the exhaust strokes? Or is there a downstream separate injector somewhere just upstream of the particulate filter?
If it`s the former, is that why engine oil can require changing more frequently (allegedly) as un-burnt fuel injected into the bores on the exhaust stroke contaminates the engine oil by getting past the rings into the sump?
(I have been trying to work out for a while, how the engine oil is affected by regeneration and it`s all I can think of)" unquote
I`m starting to feel its a well kept secret by manufactures and dealerships - that DPF engines foul their own nest.
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Yes, the regeneration is done by late injection, but there's a delicate balance to be struck.
The fuel needs to be injected with such timing that it is too late to be used to obtain meaningful power (hence the charge retains its heat), but not too late that it is injected into cold air/exhaust, and thus won't ignite.
The quantity of fuel needs to be just right too - too little, and the DPF wont heat up enough, too much and it won't all get burnt and some will end up being washed down the bores.
As you might imagine engine usage, temperature and ambient temperatures during a regeneration can all conspire to knock the process off optimum.
The ideal is the case where the burn continues down the exhaust manifold after the exhaust valve opens (it's not necessary for the injection to continue while the exhaust valve is open), but all the fuel does get burnt, thus heating the DPF to enable regeneration.
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I found that interesting NC. Thanks
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If I have problems I'll keep the forum posted. I will be monitoring the level on the dipstick now but there's more than 1.5" before the oil level gets to the X mark.
I read last week that Mazda's new 2.2 diesel has improved the DPF process. It's twice as quick and needs to be done half as often - I wonder if it's just bigger and avoids some of the problems here ;-)
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Wow, can of worms eh! Thanks for all the replies.... I'm getting oil changes every 1-2k miles, which even Mazda think is too much. After posting last time I phoned their customer service line (on the website) and raised 2 complaints. 1: Engine Oil and 2: No warning of driving style when I purchased the car. The rep raised a complaint straight away with no prevarication which speaks volumes, they have promised a reply within 7 days. On the sales issue he mentioned 'fit for purpose' which is very rare for a company rep. I would imagine that this problem is well known and that they are trying do resolve these issues before they become a major issue!
As an aside, the DPF light has never illuminated prior to a regen cycle. When it did illuminate, the car went into limp home mode, and needed a replacement oxygen sensor, this was when the oil change problems began! Anyone see a link yet!!
I'll update on any news from Mazda!!
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pat
Mazda seem to have captured the market in weird diesel faults; but I can't see the purpose of an oxygen sensor on a diesel...?
Are you sure that it wasn't an exhaust pressure, or temp, sensor?
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Sorry, should have said DPF sensor!
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The DPF light only comes on when it needs to be driven with high)ish) revs to regenerate now. It should have done a regen if it has the opportunity before it gets to this stage. Then if you ignore it, it will need to be taken to a dealer to sort out the problem which may include some damage.
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Can anyone help!! I have a Mazda 6 2.0TS. Some 9 or 10 weeks ago whilst driving on the M6 the cars engine went into melt down. Without any prior warning the engine started to reve uncontrollably and the smoke that was firstly coming from the rear of the car and then the bonnet was incredible. After getting myself and family out of the car and taking the keys out of the iginition the car still reved uncontrollably until a passing motorist stopped and deployed a fire extinguisher under the wheel arch. The police and fire brigade attended and the car was towed away. This car is a lease car and I didn't worry too much about the cost until I recieved a phone call some 5 days later stating that this problem was caused by my negligence.
Up until this point I didn't know what a DPF was and what it could do to the oil levels!
I last checked the oil level about 6 weeks before it went into melt down and the level was approximately on the F level. This didn't alarm me too much because I thought, I've not topped up the oil level so it must be okay because the dealship is the only one who's touched the oil. As far as I can see from the manual, it does not warn you that the oil levels rise with this system and to keep a special eye on it. The lease company have issued me with a bill of £6,569.96 +VAT for a new engine. I'm arguing the case that at no point has anyone from the lease company or dealership told me of short journey consequencies and that this could cause your car to literally blow up. After reading many of the above discussions I see that i'm not alone in the dreaded oil levels rising quickly. PS. I've just been informed that the car requires a new clutch!! The car is exactly 2 years old and only done 14,000 miles. I need help and advice so I can fight the claim. HELP!!
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"Up until this point I didn't know what a DPF was and what it could do to the oil levels!"
The manual on my Mazda6 certainly warns oil levels can go up and what the X mark on the dipstick signifies. Furthermore, there is a bright yellow sticker on the engine cover telling you if the oil level gets to X then go to a dealer immediately.
My car however is a 2007 vehicle on a 57 plate. Yours is a year older and therefore may not have this info - indeed does a 2006 Mazda6 have a DPF?? Did the dipstick have an E, F and X mark on it?
Edit: according to the car by car breakdown the new diesel with DPF came out in 2005
If 6 weeks before the problem the oil was on F (or thereabouts) then I would be surprised it would get near the higher X mark in that time. I've done 3000 miles since the last service and the oil has maybe gone up half an inch.
How long before the engine problem was it last serviced? It needed servicing every 12,500 miles or 12 months, whichever came sooner. It must have had at least one service and was due its second imminently.
Edited by rtj70 on 03/12/2008 at 14:46
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A little earlier I decided to phone my lease company to (a) see if they knew about this problem and (b) at what point would they want an oil change. To cut two long conversation very short they learned about this problem fairly recently - and the hard way. Currently dealing with two similar problems now... Not both Mazdas but use similar DPF regeneration strategies.
I am also apparently the first driver with them to phone and ask for their guidance on it before there is a problem. I obviously cannot name the lease company - and from the conversation one person in their technical department uses this forum anyway.
Their advice was that when it gets within 1 inch of the X mark to phone them so something can be done to sort it. So they are obviously playing it safe.
I also want to play it safe. It is my responsibility as driver to check oil levels and should see it go up long before it becomes a problem. I do not want to be paying for a new engine!
Edited by rtj70 on 03/12/2008 at 14:51
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Nick
I happen to think that Mazda's refusal to pay for this under warranty is just another of their dishonourable cop-outs - you have seen the three volumes of Mazda 6 diesel disasters on here?
If they have a fault with their DPF system, then that is their problem. Trying to foist their failings off on to the drivers is going to be very difficult to argue in court. Either these cars are fit for their purpose - or they are not.
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If you have the owner's manual and there is no reference to the DPF, or appropriate driving strategies, and no sticker under the bonnet, then I don't see how you could be held responsible.
I think they'd have a hard time making it stick. Try consulting Citizen's Advice or a lawyer, but first ensure there's nothing about a DPF in any of the literature you have.
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And Nick, if yours definitely does not I can send scanned copies and a photo of the engine bay sticker to show later cars were/are different. Assuming yours did not have these.
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It seems we must add Mazda to the lengthening list of DPF equipped diesels which are not fit for purpose.
For such a significant amount of fuel to end up in the sump there must be design problems of a fundamental nature. Even if the engine does not fail catastrophically, the effect of this fuel dilution on the bearings will be to seriously shorten the life of the engine.
Mazda's response to this problem further indicates that this is not a place to go.
659.
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I do have concerns about the amount of diesel ending up in the oil. I'd like to understand more on the DPF regen process because I've had different versions from lease company and local Mazda dealer.
The new 2.2 diesel from Mazda does have a different way of handling DPF regeneration - it's happens quicker, less frequent, etc.
Interesting thing when I said to the lease company technical person that if they have lots of these on their fleet why not at least warn the drivers. The response? They could not in case of being sued by Mazda. My concern is if my engine goes wrong they will try to blame me which is why I phoned them for advice today.
I will certainly be going for more frequent oil changes than each service - I think I will have to. I cannot risk the lease company blaming me for improper use and checks on oil. And if they won't change it early then it's their risky decision and not mine then. And they are starting to realise the risk might not be worth it in the end.
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Thanks for all the responses so far, they all help me understand whats happened! As you can probaly tell I'm no car expert. Firstly, I don't think I have a sticker on the engine warning of potential oil problems, can't check as the car is still at the dealership.
The DPF is mentioned in the manual, but it doesn't warn you that oil levels will rise because of it. All it says is that if the DPF light comes on what to do to remedy it etc.
Secondly, the plot thickens, when the car was approximately 8 months old the DPF light kept fashing on and off intermittently, as a responsible owner I took it into the dealership for attention. As I understand, at this point they had to replace the DPF and of course change the oil. Two months later I had the car into the dealership again with an air bag problem. They had the car for 3 weeks, apparently because the parts they were waiting for were on back order. When I eventually picked the car up after it being remedied it was about 2 months off the first service due. When I asked about the first service I was told that because the car had been in for so long and an oil change had only just been done the first service was practically irrelevant (only verbal).
Neither the lease company or dealership called for a service, therefore I took the verbal advice I was given.
From this point the car ran okay for some 5 months or so, until the DPF light kept coming on and off intermittently again. Again I took it to the dealership again for just one day for them to take a look. When I picked it up they said that there diagnostic equipment was not working and therefore I would have to bring back another time. From this point on the DPF light never came on again so I thought problem solved.
And then 1 week before second year service, BANG. No warning lights, no under performance to that point just BANG. Surely the car should have warned me via a warning light or something. Any further advice/help would be welcome. I see from an earlier discussion that someone said that fuel could leak into the sump via faulty seals therefore the level increasing quickly?
Nick 1969
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Hi Nick
My first question, is this a personal lease or a company car?
My manual does mention about oil levels going up - does yours mention the X on the dipstick? If not then that is in your favour. But deciding not to have a service at 12 months is against you I am afraid. Why did you think the dealer or lease company would say when it was needed?
The DPF light flashing is the car saying it's failing to regenerate the DPF and take it to the dealer immediately before the engine is damaged. As you say they had to change DPF and oil to resolve this.
"told that because the car had been in for so long and an oil change had only just been done the first service was practically irrelevant (only verbal)."
Practically irrelevant does not mean not needed for the warranty - who would have paid for the service?
"Neither the lease company or dealership called for a service, therefore I took the verbal advice I was given."
The dealer nor lease company know when a service is due - you do. How do they know miles driven etc.
And then 5 months later the DPF is failing to regenerate again and you do not do what the handbook says. The DPF light comes on to say it cannot regenerate and you need to drive at 2000 revs or higher at 25mph+ for about 15 minutes (I think. handbook is in the car). This does not need diagnostics - it's what the light means so they should have known (so should you)... might count in your favour. But you never went back - mistake.
"And then 1 week before second year service"
... except you'd missed the first one.
The diesel does not get in to the engine via faulty seals - it does as part of the DPF regen process.
Best of luck with this but missing a service, ignoring the DPF light the second time, not checking oil level going up (how often did you check oil levels?) does not sound positive for you.
Turning it around, what would you expect them to do if you run an engine when it was out of oil and you had not checked it. As I say best of luck.
Rob
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Hi Nick
Sorry to here about your problems don't think it's all your fault as you have flagged problems up to dealer but with hindsight you should have demanded a service.
Having said that first service is only lights, level's, oil and filter change and you were told oil had been changed.
I would like to bet when they said they had changed oil they just dropped level back to full on dipstick so oil was diluted then and it's become more diluted as you carried on to next service, sad to say it never got to service as oil would be just diesel not much oil.
Hope they have saved old oil out of engine but I bet they won't have!
With my six I change oil between dealer services at about 6K and it's half inch over full then and nowhere near top mark on dipstick hope this saves it.
While I've had car two years in May 09 the correct mazda oil has gone up in price from £ 14 to £48 so can any one help on where it can be had cheaper please.
Edited by Webmaster on 04/12/2008 at 00:30
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Nick's Mazda6 had an oil change a long time ago now (time wise). But they will have done an oil change surely.
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So I think I'll not get a Mazda6 2.0 diesel then... shocking. Nice looking cars so maybe a petrol? I'd love the MPS (is that the one with turbo?).
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rti 70, thanks for giving more advice. Firstly it is a company lease car, where my company has the master contract with the lease company and I have a contract with them(work). My manual definately doesn't say that the oil levels rise but it does mention the X on the dipstick.
Thinking like a average person that doesn't know much about cars, I couldn't understand why the X was mentioned, again no mention of oil levels going up with this system. It appears that the newer manual has been modified to include this, plus stickers on the engine!!
Apparently, when I was looking at this car in the showroom 2 years ago, they should have talked to me about the DPF function but at this time it was new to this car and the problems were obviously not apparent yet.
The reason I was waiting for a letter calling it to service was because with my last cars, BMW and Ford both sent letters reminding you of service.
Can someone explain the following quote that someone earlier left ? "It would appear that some of the excess diesel injected post-TDC to regenerate the DPF is leaking past the piston rings and diluting the oil. [Not recycled soot as your dealer suggested.]"
Could this have happen to mine, and as earlier stated the car has had to have a new clutch fitted too. The car is only 2 years old and only done 14,000 miles, is this related to any of the other problems?
Regards, Nick.
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Quote: Can someone explain the following quote that someone earlier left ? "It would appear that some of the excess diesel injected post-TDC to regenerate the DPF is leaking past the piston rings and diluting the oil. [Not recycled soot as your dealer suggested.]"
Yes, it works something like this. The DPF will only get hot enough to self-regenerate on longer journeys (i.e. more than 20 miles) at medium rpm.
So to help the DPF regenerate under non-ideal driving conditions, the ECU will inject a quantity of diesel fuel AFTER combustion has happened, i.e. when the piston is already on its downward stroke.
This excess unburnt diesel should be expelled with the hot exhaust, where it is further heated in the hot turbo and then hits the DPF, where it will ignite. This in turn raises the temp in the DPF to the 350 - 400 centigrade temperatures needed to start "coking" the trapped soot.
The fact that the sump fills with diesel, diluting the engine oil, leads some of the posters (including me) to believe that there's a fault either with the car's ECU mapping (i.e. it's injecting way too much diesel post-combustion) or a fundamental design compromise / flaw with the piston rings, which allow too much unburnt diesel to pass into the sump.
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Craig, Engine designers have spent the last 100 years designing piston rings and particularly oil control rings to keep lubricant on the crankcase side of the piston. Oil control rings in particular have a very clever one way action in order to facilitate this.
By introducing fuel above the piston which cannot be burnt in the combustion chamber, free liquid will be pumped into the sump if the ring pack is of conventional design. Remember that fuel oil sprayed into a hot cylinder will have a very low viscosity.
I wonder if Mazda fully appreciate this - but given the excellence of their petrol engines and transmissions I find it hard to believe they just "forgot". A period of long term testing before letting the design loose on the public would have been a good idea too.
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 05/12/2008 at 10:51
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659, on the powerstroke after combustion the top two rings should be sealing against the (still expanding) combustion gases, as it's largely cylinder pressure rather than spring tension that keeps the rings in contact with the cylinder wall ...
Seems like the ECU is injecting fuel on the exhaust stroke (i.e. low cylinder pressure) in order for fuel to leak past the rings.
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Absolutely. It's the injection of fuel on the exhaust stroke when the exhaust valve is open and there is thus low cylinder pressure which will cause this problem - sorry if I didn't make this clear.
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 05/12/2008 at 11:20
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I'm not that technical when it comes to this. But I'd have thought it had to inject the extra diesel on the exhaust stroke for it to end up in the exhaust to burn hot enough to regenerate the DPF. But it sounds like a stupid approach to me.
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Why isnt a separate injector fitted just in front of the DPF? Or in the exhaust manifold?
Edited by oilrag on 05/12/2008 at 14:47
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Good point. Possibly for emissions ...?
The other alternative is to have some sort of electrical heating device (like a glow plug?) in the DPF casing that could bring it to the soot light-off temperature when needed. Once the soot starts coking, the burn should be self-sustaining.
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It just occurred to me. Cost? Fitting a glowplug or injector (think of paraffin type blow lamp ) downwind of the cylinders would cost money. While perhaps using the engines existing injectors, to spray fuel into the bores, could allegedly be cost free. Just a little software update perhaps?
I wonder what the old steam engineers would have thought of it all? Stanier and Gresley et al.
If they could only have had futuristic insight they could have designed steam engines where ash was shovelled straight into the water tank and used with 50% of available steam to blast the coal clean before burning it.
Every 23 miles when steaming at 40mph the DPF would light off and totally incinerate everything within 100 yards of the track for the next five miles. A huge pall of black smoke would head towards the stratosphere - while the engine cleanly minced into the next station meeting its emission target..
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What I dont get about all of this is:
-soot gets 'trapped' by the DPF, hence is not emitted
-regeneration cycle runs when necessary, burning the soot and...emitting it?
Just delayed emission, surely? Or am I missing something? Does the trapping process
alter it chemically in some way?
tt
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>>and...emitting it?
Yes, but, emitting it as gas, and not as particulates, that's the crucial difference.
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When you burn carbon (soot or diamonds - it doesn't matter) in an excess of air, you produce CO2.
Having looked briefly at the test specs, it seems that once again, the car makers have out-smarted the legislators as the CO2 emitted during regen is not included in the normal test cycle emissions.
So, in reality I suspect that all of these Euro IV> spec engines emit more CO2 per transportation job as well as using more fuel than their Euro III counterparts. If the extra fuel goes in and doesn't come out again unburnt, you can't buck the laws of chemistry.
I'll keep my Euro III, thanks.
659.
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As an aside, there is no sticker in the engine bay in mine, but the manual does state that if oil is above the higher (not X) mark, then an oil change is required. I have a letter from Mazda UK which says 'the oil level can DRAMATICALLY rise and fall as excess diesel evaporates from the sump' So which is it to be...take it in when very high, or wait for it to evaporate.
Nick, from my perspective, Mazda and your lease company have a duty of care to you, the user. If you were not told that you should vary your driving style to stop this innovation (not a fault!) or that the car was obviously not suitable for the use you require it for (mention 'fit for purpose') then you cannot be held accountable for this problem. The Electronic service records should show that the oil and filter were changed, and the ECU should also show a reset for when the filter was changed, therefore Mazda themselves should know that the car's oil was changed at or very near to the service interval! If the ESR has not been updated, then you have to query it with your dealer and ask them to explain themselves.
Maybe someone (Daily Telegraph?) could start making some waves over this, with the current climate, I would have thought that no manufacturer (especially one who's parent is going begging to the US government) can afford bad publicity at this time.
Car is back in today for a 5 day investigation into this problem, I've got a 58 plate '3' as a loan, any known design innovations with this model?
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Pat22090, is there any chance of getting a copy of the letter that Mazda sent with regards to oil levels rising and falling. This could help alot.
And rti70, you said while ago "if yours definitely does not I can send scanned copies and a photo of the engine bay sticker to show later cars were/are different. Assuming yours did not have these." this also would be a great help.
Hopefully picking the car up tomorrow, but can you believe that they have been waiting for a oil seal for over 1 week, and have had to sent 2 back because they were the wrong ones!! They apparently have now taken a photo of the one that needs replacing to help them identify it!! Worrying isn't it.
Thanks for all your help to date.
Nick 1969.
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"As excess diesel evaporates from the sump" - it does not.
When mixed with engine oil, diesel oil does not evaporate to any significant extent at normal engine operating temperatures. I wonder if Mazda UK's politics machine has got petrol and diesel fuel characteristics mixed up.
659.
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I agree. Any motorcyclist will tell you that diesel doesn't evaporate easily.
DP
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Nick
I'll try to take a photo of the sticker tomorrow (and he dipstick). Tried using the phone camera but it was poor. Will also scan the pages. I will email you directly.
As I said earlier, my lease company said they cannot inform drivers in their opinion in case Mazda find out... I bet they want to just blame drivers. I'm glad I phoned now - might cover my back-side if it dramatically goes up.
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rtj70, many thanks for your help. My e-mail details should now be available.
My story just gets better! I've just been told that the catalytic converter needs replacing at a cost of £1300. Question : Would this need replacing because of what happened to the engine?
Crown Court here we come! I've no other option the bill is getting close to £9k.
Nick.
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Nick
You Can actually hide your email address again if you want - I am now a mod so could see your email address anyway.
I did try taking photos on the phone camera again but they don't show the yellow sticker properly. Looks like I'll have to use the dSLR and look silly photographing the engine.
But I am away later today and all day tomorrow for work so it won't be before Friday.
Rob
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Yes, probably, the cat will get contaminated from the excess fuel and combustion by-products.
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Got my car back late Friday. Screwloose...well done! injector no 2 replaced as 'over fuelling'
It seems strange to me that the ECU can work out exactly when to inject raw diesel into an engine, but cannot work out that you are using too much fuel!
I'll keep you all informed, but have already noticed better economy with slightly less performance, but that may be down to my innate paranoia (who said that!!)
The way things are I'll be happy if the car reaches 2nd service (4k away) without needing another oil change but probably wishful thinking!
As I stated before I'm now trading in in May, 1 year early because I cannot trust the vehicle, or the brand. Too much of this whole experience has been buyer beware rather than customer service on Mazda's behalf, which in the current climate does not bode well for their market share!
I notice 'John' hasn't mentioned these problems in his reviews though. Maybe a comment about where the vehicle can be used would be informative for potential buyers!
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Sorry Nick, been away. Yes no problem at all.... post your e-mail address and I'll scan it for you. I'll post later about what has been found on my car!
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I've sent Nick some photos of the sticker on my engine and the DPF/oil check pages in the manual.
Interesting it was an injector. Maybe that is why my oil level is going up too.
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BTW when the lease company initially told me to ask Mazda to advise (which they had already) I asked what happens if the engine blows up... they could not say I definately wouldn't so started saying they can have the car back then. Got passed to someone else who quite quickly agreed to approve an oil change (3500 since the service!) because £50-60 for an oil change is cheaper than an £8000 engine.
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Is there a DPF light on a Honda Accord 2005 Diesel dashboard? because I have not seen any. Or is it that he does not use DPF. Sorry I am a bit ignorant but worried about this DPF problem.
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I cannot comment on the Honda but the DPF light on the Mazda6 briefly illuminates when he ignition key is turned.
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www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=77225
I've had the same problem but a worse outcome.. If anyone would like to coem to watchdog with me, please let me know..... Im not accepting my car back from mazda and mazda have lied and lied to me.
My email address is: contact@modxpc.com
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