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Now lets see........... load capacity, auto, decent mpg, reliable long term prospect. 15k ish. Predictably enough....................Mondeo Estate !!!
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Well petrol autos aside from the hybrids have silly co2 levels and he wants something that is low, ie under 160 because he wont be changing the car when taxation hits cars yet again, so he doesnt want to be saddled with something thats ok now, but not in the future. Thats why he is keener on diesels and the extra purchase price isnt really an issue as he will be keeping the car a very long time, possibly 15 years like the last car.
He would consider a Prius but the base model doesnt have cruise - that 15k for the T3 model? He would like brand new if poss though, he doesnt want something that some other person may have driven hard if he is spending that much cash. He is old, hard to sway!
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Auris, Golf, Skoda, Seat... choice of engine types, sizes and other specifications including DSG (not sure I wd buy it though).
The last Auris HJ tested was a rapid diesel that he said was comfortable. There's a smaller, more frugal diesel engine too, available with auto. My BiL, a car man and biker, has one and likes it.
Edited by Lud on 22/07/2008 at 20:47
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My dad does want a conventional or cvt auto rather than an automated manual.
Couldnt bring up a diesel auto Auris on their website.
VW too expensive, Skoda and Seat, perhaps, have to investigate them further. My dad will not pay for a badge, the Merc just happenes to be what he may want, he would buy it if it had a Perodua badge!
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Can't say I agree with him about the Merc, but I am prejudiced against the A class. Partly perhaps because there are so many badly driven ones in Kensington. Hate the things.
My BiL's Auris has a 1400cc diesel I think. I don't know how the auto works, but it has a simple push for + and pull for - override function on the selector, which I seem to remember has fewer positions than most (but I could be wrong). I haven't been in it much but it seems to drive when required very like an ordinary auto. I understand the car is very frugal too. I'd have a look if I were you. Even if it is an automated manual, it seems very user friendly and ought to be durable.
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Mondeo is way too big, not to mention high emissions (189 ).
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Ford Powershift is not a semi-auto but a double clutch automatic like DSG so I guess the Focus would be back in the running on that basis. The price I quoted is wrong - the Titanium is actually £2 more than the Zetec, which is what I had put into DTD.
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I'd advise him to wait as long as possible or even get a stop-gap cheapo to see him through a few years. With the tax and environmental pressures on motoring, I'd expect to see significant improvements in fuel economy by whatever means in the next few years. Manufacturers will be busting their guts to produce the lowest CO2 emitting cars possible or alternative propulsion systems, there is much more pressure on them to do this than ever before. Having some faith in markets and human ingenuity, the average car in a few years could be very different and cheaper to run than today.
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Having been on DTD, the Octavia Classic DSG is ever so cheap - it has got his interest now and he is aware where they come in JD Power too, he commented on it doing well.
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he doesnt want to be saddled with something thats ok now but not in the future. Thats why he is keener on diesels
You can't second guess the future - buyers of 2.0 petrol family cars a few years back would have had no idea they were buying next year's gas guzzler tax victim. Diesels may well be taxed more heavily in the future. Two reasons spring to mind:
- emissions other than CO2 may come in for taxing
- if we are all driving diesels to save tax then the bands will adjust accordingly (once the taxman is accustomed to the higher level of income, he isn't going to give it back). Suddenly 150-160g/km will be the high end tax bracket.
If I was your Dad and wanted £15k to last me 15 years of motoring, and wanted a new-ish car, I would spend £10k now and put the rest away for another change in 7-10 years time when the motoring landscape will be very different indeed.
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Something like an A Class may actually be a reasonable choice, particularly if he's knocking on a bit and intends to keep it long term. Wait until the pre-Budget report before making a decision though. I expect Gordon's Glove Puppet to do a U-turn on retrospective VED rates but fiddle with the higher rates applicable from next April to recoup his losses and try to justify them with green-speak.
I say that the A Class may not be a bad choice because he needs to think about what his health may be like in ten years time. My old man recently changed his Mondeo because old age (and osteoporosis) was making it a pain (literally) to get in and out especially if he had to park on a hill. He needed something a bit higher than a regular saloon or estate.
Although he's always steered clear of French cars before now he ended up with a petrol Scenic auto. Easy to get in and out, easy to drive, enough space for him and mum and cheaper than a diesel for his 5k miles per year.
Kevin...
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bristolmotorspeedway wrote:You can't second guess the future - buyers of 2.0 petrol family cars a few years back would have had no idea they were buying next year's gas guzzler tax victim.
If if it was bought in the last 7 years, then the fact that their car was in the highest CO2 tax band might have been a clue! However, I agree that we can expect big changes in cars over the years ahead, especially if fuel prices remain high.
As to Stu's dad, I think that it may be a bit optimistic to expect a car now to last 15 years. It's not just that the taxation and emissions rules may change, but all the electronics looks likely to kill off modern cars long before they rust or the engine burns out. I wouldn't put my money on a modern common rail diesel still being on the road in 15 years ... so unless he's doing the enormous mileages now required to make a diesel pay, why not a petrol car, bought secondhand?
He should be able to buy a 3-year-old car now for much less than half the cost of a new one, and run it for 7 years before replacing it. That'll be a much better bet than running a car over 10 years old.
If he can live with a hatchback boot and without the cruise control, he could get change out of £5k for a 3yo Nissan Almera 1.8SE automatic with less than 20,000 miles on it - there several in stock at Cargiant, such as this one at £4,699: tinyurl.com/6zoztb ... or if he can live with a white one, Sunwin Nissan in Nottingham have a lower spec one at under £4,000. Either way, less than a third the price of a new car.
I know I'm falling into the old trap of recommending my own car, but I do think that putting the best part of £15k into a brand new car is not the best way to get 15 years of motoring. The suggestion below of a petrol Scenic auto also sounds like a good idea, tho it might be more expensive.
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He should be able to buy a 3-year-old car now for much less than half the cost of a new one, and run it for 7 years before replacing it. That'll be a much better bet than running a car over 10 years old.
NowWheels - If Stu's Dad is anything like Stu, then that will not be what he wants to hear. The epic threads a few months ago where Stu was looking for a brand new car for himself with a view to keeping it for 15 years bear witness to that. I think you will find that once the "Northants" family have said they want to buy a brand new car, that is exactly what they will do.
I do endorse your point that a petrol car should be a better choice unless a diesel is justified by enormous mileages. However, again, I believe that will not be a factor in their decision, because they are swayed more by day to day mpg plus annual VED as the overriding factors, rather than the true overall annual cost. Opportunity cost, depreciation, etc. do not come in to the decision because as Stu has said in previous threads, it is all irrelevant when you have capital to spend for a planned 15 years of ownership.
So apart from suggesting that petrol should be a better choice for usage of under 15k miles a year, I cannot suggest any particular cars as my selection would all be 2 or 3 year old used cars.
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I think you will find that once the "Northants" family have said they want to buy a brand new car that is exactly what they will do.
Their money, their choice :) It's up to Stu's Dad to decide how to spend his money. If I was married to him, I might have a right to complain, but so far as I know I'm not Stuart's mum.
And more selfishly, the fact that some people want a brand new car regardless of cost is just what allows people like me to pick up secondhand bargains, as others flock to the latest model. When I bought a 14K-mile 16-month-old car at half the list price of a new one, I was very grateful to whoever it was that effectively paid me £7,000 for the privilege of running in my new car for me.
The thing about these threads, though, is that they are not read only by the original poster. The exchange of views may be illuminating to others, who may draw difft conclusions
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>If if it was bought in the last 7 years, then the fact that their car was in the highest CO2 tax band might have been
>a clue!
Yes, the fools deserve everything they get for expecting our politicians to fair and honest. Any idiot in 2001 could see that the Mondeo they bought then would get clobbered 7 years later.
They really should have thought about contraception as well shouldn't they. Now that young James has joined Jemima and Jeremy they really are in a pickle. Still, I suppose they could always sell their cottage and move to somewhere within walking distance of the primary school on the housing estate. Always assuming of course that they manage to sell and aren't already in negative equity.
Care to give us any more insights into future targets for retrospective 'green' taxation NowWheels?
Gas tax of 4p per therm if you don't have the latest condensing boiler?
Electric tax of .5p per KW if your dishwasher isn't AAA rated or you bought a TV with a standby button?
Kevin...
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Care to give us any more insights into future targets for retrospective 'green' taxation NowWheels?
It doesn't apply to previous years, so it's not retrospective.
Any idiot in 2001 could see that the Mondeo they bought then would get clobbered 7 years later.
Any idiot in 2001 could see if a new car was in a high tax band; there was nothing secret about it. It was no secret that the pressure was coming on to use the tax system to penalise more thirsty cars, and once the banding was in place, all the mechanisms were ready. The only thing that should surprise anyone is that it took 7 years to implement.
Gas tax of 4p per therm if you don't have the latest condensing boiler?
Yes, watch out on all those fronts. If they start taxing boilers or anything else on the basis of their energy efficiency, then watch out: the higher tax bands are likely to become much more expensive in future, because all the major political parties are committed in principle to using the tax system to deter usage of things which pollute.
You may think that using taxes in this way is a good thing or a bad thing, but the direction is clear: energy usage is going to be taxed, and above-average energy use is going to be more heavily taxed.
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>It doesn't apply to previous years, so it's not retrospective.
So the new bands coming into effect in March 2009 do not apply to vehicles registered before March 2009? I think you'd better look again.
>..the pressure was coming on to use the tax system to penalise more thirsty cars,
Typical! The tax system should not be used to "penalise" people for past buying decisions. It should be used to influence future choices.
>The only thing that should surprise anyone is that it took 7 years to implement.
It did not take 7 years to implement. It took 7 years before they needed panic measures to raise more cash.
>Yes, watch out on all those fronts.
I think you'll find that times have changed. While the money taps were flowing freely, public apathy allowed Gollum to believe he was fooling everyone with his underhand tax changes. Now that they are worried about paying the bills they won't put up with political dishonesty.
>You may think that using taxes in this way is a good thing or a bad thing..
I have no problem with using taxes to influence peoples choices. I do have problems with using taxes to punish choices they made in the past.
Kevin...
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