I tow a 2 axle horse trailer with my Skoda Superb diesel. I operate well within the limit of 1600kg for the vehicle and it tows really well. Performance is limited out of deference to the horse, not the load. I have carried an equivalent weight of ballast in the same trailer and the car will pull it up to 70 mph without hesitation - it knocks a hole in the fuel consumption though.
The present fashion for 4 x 4 vehicles to tow these things is just that - people who tow horses frequently will tell you that performance is not a limiting factor. Traction can be, but just requires care and planning. The present fuel and road tax charges make the use of a large diesel car a sensible choice - my car will give me the economy of a petrol Fiesta when unhitched and driven gently. It's also a comfortable and economical motorway cruiser. Road tax is currently GBP140 pa.
659.
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Horse trailers themselves with their double axles are far more stable than most caravans....
More "stable" than caravans....very good.
Seriously though, why do you think that 4x4 are more suited to towing than cars? My experience of 4x4 is that they often have lower power to weight ratios than would be desirable, compounded by a power sapping 4WD system. When hitched to a load this exacerbates the problem making many of them poor tow cars especially when on tortuous, hilly, rural roads and when faced with hills and headwinds on major roads. Also their turning circles don't make manouevring much fun as I found out with a Landy 130 DC.
They do come into their own on wet/muddy fields, but that can often be negated by prior planning.
Providing that the combination does not exceed the Gross Train Weight (or Max Permissible Trailer Weight) I cannot see a problem. I have found that wheelbase and overhang are more pertinent factors for towcar choice rather than the power train.
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I have no details for the GTW of a Superb, but Caravan Club recommends a trailer should be no more than 85% of the car weight.
Typical car 1.5 tonnes. (Skoda superb 1.45 tonnes).
Ifor Williams box www.iwt.co.uk/products/horse/hb510.htm 1000 kg; that just about leaves you room for a goat based on 85%. Certainly not a horse, and certainly not the two horses you can fit in (and will end up having to at some point when somebody begs you).
By loading a car up to the limit with trailers you are pushing it to the extremes of performance. The car will wear out - clutches aren't designed for that sort of work, nor are autoboxes. Your brakes won't really be up to stopping the combination.
I honestly wouldn't do it on more than an occasional basis, and none of my horsey friends would either. A small pony in a pony box is quite another matter.
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There's a whole world of difference towing a caravan and a decent horse trailer though, for one thing the horse trailers are very stable, they have excellent brakes, and they generally don't try to take control of the towing vehicle, how many people have needed to fit a stabiliser for horse trailer towing?
Caravans on the other hand will swing all over the place unless the towing vehicle is very heavy and stable, and even then if the loading of the combination isn't right, it will still be a case of the tail wagging the dog.
I wouldn't make a habit of it either TBH, not from a safety aspect, but as i said before a horse trailer will knock the stuffing out of the back end of most cars.
Over undulating ground i could feel it through my landcruiser, and my horse trailer had proper damped and soft suspension.
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What I admire about drivers of horseboxes or those towing horse trailers is that they drive with care and stick to the speed limit.
Now I know that a lot of this is out of consideration for their expensive, living cargo but then why don't other drivers respect their "living cargo", ie people, in the same way?
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Just thought, why not make car passengers stand up unrestrained but then realised that this happens on buses and the drivers rarely respect their passengers in the same situation.
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>>Caravan Club recommends a trailer should be no more than 85% of the car weight.
The caravan club actually recommends that "novices" should not tow more than an 85%(caravan) match, and as other posters have noted, horse trailers are inherently more stable than caravans. So cars such as Voyagers -2085kg towing limit, Kia Sedona 2000kg, pug 807 1750kg, Audi a4 1700kg, Smax 2505kg, mazda 6 1800kg, Passat 1800kg are a few examples which are within manufacturers limits for your example, (though I believe your example is one of the heavier horse trailers, 770kg seems a more typical ULW for a large horse trailer)
>>Your brakes won't really be up to stopping the combination.
Interesting one given that 4x4 tend to have longer stopping distances (partly owing to the extra momentum [mass x velocity]) before adding the extra mass of a trailer
eg Stopping times from 60 mph:
MB CL500 119 ft,
Lexus 400 131 ft,
Isuzu Rodeo 156 ft,
Grand Cherokee 145 ft,
Nissan Pathfinder 141 ft
So as you see the 4x4 is disadvantaged to start with.
Car makers do not produce towing limits without thought. The figure is based on many things (as is the gross train weight) from the ability to restart on inclines, engine and drivetrain integrity, braking efficiency, thermal tolerance and doubtless many other factors and as manufacturers almost invariably supply towbars and do not have caveats in their warranties against towing up to the limit, it could be seen as tacit acceptance/approval.
I have never yet worn out a clutch towing trailers of around 1100 - 1400 kg with "cars", though I do only keep my cars for around 85000 miles and tend not to tow much past the Italy/Austria border.
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I dare say. But you wouldn't catch me regularly driving a combination that was as close to the limit as that. Have you told your insurance company exactly what you are towing?
I just don't see it as prudent or sensible to tow something that weighs more than the car does, but with poor brakes and poor suspension. I cannot understand why a horsebox, with a load that moves thus affecting nose weight can be considered to be more stable than an equivalent caravan.
The caravan club ACTUALLY recommends that nobody should tow a trailer weighing more than 85% of the towing vehicle; and certainly never in excess of 100%. They also recommend that you should not tow up to the manufacturer's limits.
www.caravanclub.co.uk/Practical+advice/Thinking+of...m www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/faqs/?departme...n
>>Interesting one given that 4x4 tend to have longer stopping distances (partly owing to
>>the extra momentum [mass x velocity]) before adding the extra mass of a trailer
Which is why the incremental increase as a result of towing a trailer means that they will have a better stopping effect when towing than will a car.
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I cannot understand whya horsebox with a load that moves thus affecting nose weight can be considered to be more stable than an equivalent caravan.
Compare the profiles of the horse trailer and caravan.
You will find the caravan axle(s) will be almost centre of the entire length of the chassis.
The horse trailer axles will be some distance behind the centre of the chassis, which really almost takes it into truck semi trailer area of stability, it wont be able to get the sways on like a caravan as it won't have the behind the centre point weight or length do do so, caravan more like a spinning top almost.
If you look at where the animal stands in the trailer , it will be spread over the axles and therefore making almost no difference to the imposed nose weight.
If you go and manually move a caravan, an able bodied person would be able to pick the front of the thing up and lift it all the way up until the tail touches the floor.
You cannot do the same to the horse trailer, they are so well weighted that you cannot lift them at all past the normal ride height, therefore again over the ground they cannot get the lift or movement to start the sways.
Part of the payback for that though is how roughly the horse trailer will treat a normal car.
I'm sure msot caravanners would have a pleasant shock if they towed a horse trailer, and felt just how stable (pun intended) the things are.
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I well remember one of my "Farming Bosses" regularly used too pull a double trailer with two cows in it, or with the cows out and the decks in - 30 sheep! all with a Marina 1800 estate! - on one "memorable" day, we moved a herd of 24 "dry" cows 2 at a time, to fresh pastures 8 miles away, because he was too tight to hire a wagon, must admit that although the marina bounced a bit when the cows moo-ved, and made one or two funny movements when going round a particularly tight corner with reverse camber, it performed admirably!.
Billy
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OK, I freely admit I have no experience with caravans. But it sounds to me as though they weigh nothing... in which case, what's the worry?
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as though they weigh nothing... in which case what's the worry?
Most caravans weight about the same as a horse tralier, but because of the sheer size and the balancing they can take control very easily of the towing vehicle, as seen every summer when there will be caravans turned over regularly, on the open road.
Its a very unpleasant experience being in a vehicle when the trailer takes over.
The twin axled vans are more stable, but getting heavy obviously, still not as good as the horsey lot though.
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as well as the above comments the plated weight of the trailer can make towing it with a car illegal ,for example if the trailer is plated to 2 tons and the car has a towing weight of 1600kg then it is illegal even if the trailer is empty and weighing only 900 kg
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re- the plating advice, - this may help!
>>What unbraked trailer can I tow? You can tow a maximum of 750 Kg with an unbraked trailer but you cannot exceed half the kerb weight of the towing vehicle. You can tow a trailer with a Gross Weight higher than your car?s towing limit as long as you only load it up to that limit. It is illegal to exceed the car?s towing limit.>>
>>www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/identification_plates.htm<<
Billy
Edited by billy25 on 28/05/2008 at 02:13
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