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Engine preforms as it always has - no 'bubbles' in expansion tank, when engine revved - coolant in expansion tank smells ok! - well....no water in oil, no mayonaise...MHG? - hoping for something not so hard on the pocket! - but thanks for your trouble.
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Could it be worth chancing a new cap for the expansion tank ? Given that if original this will be 10 years old and what with a wrinkly seal ?
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Thanks, but I have changed the cap - refer to problem
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 21/02/2008 at 21:06
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Experience has shown that these engines are very intolerant to overheating and it's the head gasket that usually suffers first. The root of the problem seems to be that your garage didn't fit the bottom hose properly by ensuring the lugs securing it to the radiator outlet were 'locked' in position. This is done by turning a collar on the pipe but as space is so tight it would be very easy for a poor mechanic to damage the lugs or not fit them properly. If it were my car i would be pressing for the garage to skim the head and replace the gasket FOC.
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Thanks Hector1975, for a most informative answer! - I am furious, that the hose came off in the first place, and have already considered the option of taking the garage to the county[small claims]court, in the event of not achieving a satisfactory outcome, - It is obvious from your answer, that you have considerable experience of the 306's radiator 'configuration' in respect of hose layout etc. Would it be possible, prior to the 'parting of the hose from the radiator, for some other defect to cause a build up of pressure within the coolant, liable to cause the hose to part company? - I would have thought that excess pressure would have escaped through rad cap expansion cap, were a build up of pressure result from a 'defect'. I have noticed that the top hose was not abutting the 'locating ridge' on the radiator spigot[by approx1/2"] and also that the LHS of the rad is not located within the 'housing' of the adjacent [air con rad?]...would appreciate your comments...thankyou.
snipquote!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 22/02/2008 at 12:29
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I have experience of the hose layout on Peugeot 306's and have the broken nails and skinned knuckels to prove it!. If the radiator wasn't secured properly and the hose correctly fitted it does indicate poor workmanship and a rushed job. Not really a job that can be cut corners with as if it isnt 100% right it will fail. I usually replace the bottom hose with the radiator as the old plastic hose clips are so fragile.
If the head gasket was blowing before the new radiator was fitted it would have relieved the excess pressure at the rad cap and shouldn't have blown the hose off if it was fitted correctly.
Does seem more likely that the hose started to leak then came apart completely causing the overheating. The fact that the engine STOP light came on suggests the engine got much too hot - it's often too late by then to save the head gasket.
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Thank you Hector, for your valued comments! What actually happened was for the bottom hose to become detached, low coolant warning light appeared, stopped, Green Flag summoned, - most impressed on the way he[GF] securely refixed the bottom hose, - alas, he sent me on my way, without bleeding the system - must have lost majority of coolant, only to set off again, for STOP warning light to appear! Just as you so rightly said. Anyway, what are your thoughts on the LHS of the radiator [as looking at the front of the vehicle] abutting the [aircon rad?] and not being located within the housing on the [aircon?] radiator? - I am of the opinion, that if the rad., is not located within the 'housing' on the [aircon] radiator, then the radiator would be prone to a degree of vibration, which may give rise to the detachment of the bottom hose from the radiator- does that sound feasible to you?
New, to Honest John's site, but read his Saturday column in the Telegraph. Thanking you again for your valued comments [been scouring the site for 'coolant' problems - the one featuring the Cooper S is a classic!] Kind Regards.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 22/02/2008 at 20:45
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I don't think the radiator not being clipped to the air con condenser would cause anything like enough vibration to cause the hose to come off to be honest. Before proceding are you sure water is blowing out of the expansion bottle and not leaking at the bottom radiator outlet ? How much water is it using ?. Have you noticed more than a normal amount of steam out the exhaust or the top radiator hose 'ballooning' under pressure ?
It's unfortunate Green Flag didn't bleed the system but if a satisfactory repair had been done the hose should never have become disconnected imho. i hope the garage do the decent thing and fix the head gasket for you if it does turn out to have blown.
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Hi Hector - just back from Bristol, round trip of 320 miles, - but not in the 306! - a '03 mini one - great little car! - anyway, the top hose is not ballooning - since having had the coolant bled by the garage [no bill to date!] I have undertaken four round trips of circa 20 miles without replenishing the coolant, the level of which is just below the 'little projecting plastic level' located within the 'upper' part of the expansion tank. Coolant is not escaping from the drain off point, but from the short [100mm long] plastic expansion pipe leading off from the upper part of the expansion tank. I relocated this pipe [ previously tucked down between the air-con condensor and the 'front skirt '] so it is now located above the 'front skirt' I have noticed a small 'spray' of coolant from the expansion pipe, at the completion of each round trip, located on the skirt/bumper. At the start of each round trip, I have cleaned the skirt...but at the completion of each trip, I have failed to spot any escape. The escape is minimal, probably only a couple of teaspoons full, as the coolant in the resevoir is much as it was, - still the 'wrinkly' rubber washer however! - no, steam [I think] from the exhaust, but I will check tomorrow. On my trip today, was formulating my case...notwithstanding that the hose detaching gave rise[indirectly] to the 306's problems, the direct cause of the 306's problems was the faulty repair by GF[ when the hose detached, the low coolant warning light appeared, and I stopped immediatly] only when I cotinued following the repair, was the 'damage' sustained...still think however that the garage is liable! - I agree with you, that the absence of the rad being located within the air-con housing, would have given rise to the hose detaching, - it just looks bad fitting, and not what Peugeot intended! - perhaps I should take the car on a longer trip?.....
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 23/02/2008 at 23:53
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The skimming of alloy heads is frowned upon as unlike cast iron, alloy castings are usually porous (this depends a lot on the type of aluminium alloy) To solve the porosity problem it is usual for cylinder heads to be vacuum-impregnated with sealing resin. The procedure is to put the cylinder head in a vacuum chamber, pull as much vacuum as possible to get the air out of the pores and then introduce the sealing liquid. When the vacuum is released the sealer goes into the pores of the metal.
Land Rover state the following in their manual on the 300 TDi engine "The head has a special coating and it must not be skimmed. If the head is warped a new head should be fitted".
Thoretically a skimmed head could be impregnated again but the impregnating company would probably not want to process oily parts. The "special coating" appears to make the gaskets seal better because empirical results on the Peugeot 106 indicate that the OEM head gasket will last 50,000 miles from when the engine is new. From then on the engine will need a gasket every 30,000 miles. One theory is that oil migrates into the alloy and stops the head gasket from sticking properly but it seems to me that there might be several Trade Secrets as to why this happens.
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