Manufacturer: Vauxhall.
Model: Astra.
Type: Estate.
Fuel: Dual fuel - LPG/Petrol.
Trim: Elegance.
Engine: 1600cc.
Registered: 2003.
Mileage: 50k.
Just had the car inspected and given a full service by a Vauxhall dealership.
When I gave them the car (bearing in mind I have just purchsed it) I gave them the RAC inspection report and the MOT certificates.
The dealership have just called asking if I had the advisory that should have been with the MOT.
I was not given it when I purchased the vehicle and not having seen the new MOT certificate before I did not know what an advisory notice (marked yes on the cert') was.
Just come off the phone having spoken with VOSA. VOSA have told me that the advisory given was for - excessive wear pads, discs shoes and drums.
RAC report states: BRAKES 'Service check wear recommended'.
Vauxhall dealership are telling me front discs are 60% worn with 2 deep scours on each disc and the drums are 40% worn but no scouring. They have told me if they had of tested vehicle it would have failed on and only these faults.
How much life is left in the discs and drums? I don't drive on the brakes or heavy and the vehicle never tows anything.
I am looking at a parts & labour bill in excess of £300 on a car I have had less than 31 days...
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 20/12/2007 at 17:54
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We can't see exactly how bad the brakes are from here, so no-one on the forum can say whether or not you need to change your brakes.
To fail the MOT, the brake linings need to be less than 1.5mm, and the drums and discs cannot be cracked, or excessivley worn, scored or pitted.
If the linings really are below 1.5mm, then, they need replacing NOW, and, you might argue that the vehicle should not have been sold to you in this condition.
The other aspects of wear, pitting, and scoring are much more subjective** - I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the Vauxhall garage is erring towards the cautious end of this spectrum - but, as I said at the top, only those who have seen the parts, and have the knowledge and skill to know what they are looking at can advise you.
** no specific measurements of, say, disc thickness are taken during the MOT, and so, it's down to the judgement of the tester. During a service, however, it's normal practice to measure the disc thickness, and so a more accurate, less subjective, view of disc condition can be obtained during servicing than during an MOT. Balanced against this is the known propensity for some dealers to be keen on brake work, because it's lucrative, and easy to sell to the customer via obvious safety arguments.
Number_Cruncher
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The MoT man is not allowed to strip down any parts of the car - so I'm not sure how the advisory on drum and shoe wear arose. However if the car passed the MoT then it passed! The dealer that sold you the car has not done anything wrong.
60% wear on the front discs means just that - they have life left in them yet.
Astra discs and pads are not expensive - branded front discs and pads can probably obtained for this car for around £75.
Main dealers like brake work - friction products have one of the highest mark-ups and they are a predicatable job that can normally be done in less than book time, and moreover most customers will readily agree to the work being done..
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From long term Astra ownership, the front disks will last two sets of pads.
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From long term Astra ownership the front disks will last two sets of pads.
That depends. My dad's 51 reg Astra 1.6 Auto has just over 40,000 on the clock - still on original front disks and pads, and both will require changing in the not too distant future. I've already ground off a 1 or 2mm lip from edge of the disks to give them a few more thousand miles. Pads probably have approx 3 mm left on them and the disks are almost down to the recommended minimum thickness.
Aprillia's mention of price for disks and pads is in the same ballpark as I was quoted from Vauxhall. They actually encourage pad and disk change at the same time as the pads these days are as hard as the disks and wear down at the same rate. It's actually cheaper to buy pads & disks together than it is to buy the disks on their own.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 20/12/2007 at 18:03
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Many thanks once more for your constructive help & replies.
Since this mornings bad news - I have had a large mug of tea and several mince pies - I have managed to chill out a bit. I am still really peed off at getting the wool pulled over my eyes by the company I have bought the car from though.
I can do the drums and shoes myself but being an 'old school at home service' type of person, I know nothing of ABS so I will not touch the front set of brakes - I will have to pay to have these done.
Thankfully I have a very good local one man band that through word of mouth exists. He is so busy he can actually afford to turn business away - yes, that reliable.
Totally affordable too!
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I know nothing of ABS so I will not touch the front set of brakes - I will have to pay to have these done.
Your ABS system is operative on all 4 brakes, not just the front calipers.
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Well, I don't understand ABS so I will leave it to a man that does.
Best way eh?!
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Well I don't understand ABS so I will leave it to a man that does. Best way eh?!
For all intense purposes, the braking system at the hub (ie, the discs, shoes, pads, and calipers) are no different to a car without ABS. Just heed thomp1983's message about slackening off the bleed nipples and clamping the pipes so as to not invert the rubber seals in the master cylinder.
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I'm going by my 1.8 auto which had new pads at 45,000 and pads/disks at 85,000 - these were 280mm front disks rather than the 256mm fitted to "lesser" models.
Fortunately my dealer did tell me that the "service kit" of disks/pads was cheaper than just the disks. In view of the amount of stick and criticism I've given Vauxhall dealers over the years, this was excellent service.
Edited by Ruperts Trooper on 20/12/2007 at 18:46
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abs shouldn't cause any unnecessary problems for changing the fronts, only thing to be aware of is to loosen the bleed nipple when pushing the piston back in as the seals can flip themselves under the pressure
chris
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Tron my mot man often puts this advisory on cars i have taken to him for mot his reasoning is that this car may be unsold for many months and the new purchaser could argue due to the worsenening condition of the discs due to it being stood that it shouldnt have passed the mot
he wouldnt be able to do the same with the rear drums though as these are pass or fail
if you imagine that a pad has 10mm of meat on it new then your pads now have 4mm,a totally acceptable figure,the discs may also be totally serviceable too and they have obviously passed the mot as being within specified limits
i recommend you look at the discs and pads yourself and draw your own conclusions rather than a 3rd party trying to up their till receipts
if you find the discs and pads in an unacceptable state go back to the supplying seller,if its a bona fido place i am confident that they will sort this for you foc
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When you buy a car, forget any documentation such as this: Serviced by dealership selling the car, MOT, RAC and AA inspections.
If the MOT is a pass, look for advisory notifications. This is marked in a box clearly as 'YES' (or NO if not issued. Box is above testing station number) on the MOT certificate. If one is issued and you are not freely (you must walk away now asking yourself - what are they hiding?) offered this by the dealership, you must ask them for it.
If they don?t have it, on the rear of the MOT certificate you will find the following number: 0870 60 60 440. This is for VOSA. VOSA will confirm if the MOT is valid, the mileage of the vehicle and what (if issued) any advisory notices are.
RAC & AA reports will give advisory information and just that - not worth the paper they are written on.
The service by the dealership selling the car? Yeah right! Do you think they are going to spend too long doing this?! Profit is the name of the game. It was probably nothing more than a wipe with an oily cloth, cheap oil, filters and sparkplugs.
As a precautionary, I advise that you get the car fully serviced and MOT'd at a reputable dealership as a matter of urgency.
If you can, get at least an independent check and MOT completed prior to purchasing the car ? could save you a lot of hassle and monies in the long run. I will do this with the next car I purchase.
If any faults or defects are found during that service and MOT go directly back to the dealership you purchased the car from. Place a listing of all faults and defects in to writing, give the dealership that document (keep a copy) and the vehicle. Tell them you want the repairs completed and obtain written proof that they have done this.
I am on the understanding that there are strict time constraints that you can do this. Sadly, I am outside of mine with the vehicle I have purchased
As I did not do the above.
I am now in discussions and very difficult ones, with the dealership in trying to get the above work (brakes) completed as they are saying that the vehicle was 100% serviceable when sold - a mere 29 days ago and that legally I have no come back at them.
I am looking at (and will probably have to fund this) a repair bill in access of £300 to put the vehicle safely back on to the road as they are seriously contesting my approach towards them to do the work.
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Dealership have just called me.
They have negotiated a price with my local garage to do the work in full and they will pay for that work!
My Christmas has just arrived as the monies I had been holding aside for repairs to this car are now mine to use as I should be!
It has been an up hill struggle to get here today - the dealership has agreed to complete all faults and repairs so it shows that they are a reputable, if awkward at at times, company to deal with.
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