I know its not everyone's cup of tea but we have a Hilux pick up.
It's only done 2000 miles but it will be getting its first of many between sevice oil changes at about 3000 miles.
Sounds too soon i know but i've always looked after my cars in a similar way and i reckon it pays, so don't try to dissuade me.
Any of you who would find that type of motor on your shopping list used (say 3 of 4 years old) would you be happy enough for me to have receipts to prove that i've done my own interim oil changes, or would it make the world of difference if the dealer had done all the oil services?
I'm quite happy to pay the dealer to do it, its just more convenient for me to do the interims.
Thanks and ttfn
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 17/11/2007 at 21:05
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I assume these are ADDITIONAL to the normal Toyota service schedule and therefore not listed in the service book. I would do them yourself (using OE filter) and keep the receipts. A buyer will be most interested in the mandatory services rather than any additional ones.
I wouldn't tell your dealer about these oil changes, they could use them as a 'get out' if there are any lubrication-related problems under warranty.
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Gordon bennet,
I did the interims myself, but cleared that first with the service manager. Bought the filters from parts, kept the receipts and for the oil, switched to Mobil 1.
Re the buyer, I bet a lot of prospective future purchasers would appreciate your extra diligence.
Agree with Aprilia too, depends how much you can trust the dealership, because if its done my way and the dealership is asked to put it in writing it destroys that trust.
worst case scenario, the engine seizes and its not the workshops chosen oil in it though?
think I tend to analyse things too much :(
bottom line is, there`s no way i could *not* change the oil and filter at the halfway point.
Regards
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I am a bit puzzled here. Are we talking about oil changes additional to the toyota service schedules and therefore not documented in the service book; or oil changes that are in the service schedules but 'optional' (i.e. listed for severe climates/duties) or oil changes that ARE listed as mandatory in the service book. If the last of these possibilities then it has to be done by a VAT-registered workshop to qualify warranty.
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I took it as additional, extra to the book service requirements. Thats what I meant by `interims` in my post. Sorry about the lack of clarity.
Edited by oilrag on 17/11/2007 at 18:21
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Sorry lads only told half the story as usual.
Yes it will be serviced properly by Toyo as per schedule (according to the schedule it could be 2009 before the car tells me..blow that) this is extra oil changes i'm talking about.
I fully intend to use genuine oil and filters, the question was would you as a buyer want the interims done by Toyo as well as the main services?
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When is the standard oil change due, in mileage/time terms? I'd infer from your post that the oil change for the vehicle is due at 6,000.
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Normal oil change interval 9000 miles.
I will do 2 this time as the engine is new ( at 3 then 6 thou) and then do in between at 4500 miles subsequently.
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While you have mentioned at the top about not wishing to be dissuaded, I will go as close as I dare...
You might consider the option of not changing the oil so soon for the first change, and allowing the engine the best chance to bed-in. There are cases of engines which aren't worn, but, because the rings haven't bedded or sealed, these engines consume copious quantities of oil - have a search around in the technical forum.
Number_Cruncher
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OK, if these are extra 'undocumented' oil changes then just change it - don't tell anyone. Potential future buyers will just want to see that its been serviced to schedule.
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Unless there is something odd about the pattern of use, i.e. severe service, what is the point of changing oil so often? I'd understand if oil analysis showed a need. But there isn't otherwise any benefit that can be quantified, surely?
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I remember a very good diesel engineer telling me Diesel engines need 15K to bed in based on their application and that they needed bed in first before oil could be analysed. I remember one company (Volkswagen) and possibly Mercedes who used to fill their diesel engines with a first fill oil which was made from recycled oil to a special mixture.
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I think NC's point about the increased difficulty of bedding in a new engine could be valid - although none of the mileages quoted is excessive as far as the use of a good quality synthetic oil is concerned. If I wanted to run in an engine for minimum oil consumption, I would consider running it in using mineral oil unless it is highly stressed or turbocharged.
In the light of the vast improvements made to their products by the lubricating oil industry, I would respectfully make the point that this plan represents a sheer waste of oil. Few cars these days die of engine wear given reasonable treatment.
659.
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It feels great having done it though:) and against all wisdom I put Mobil 1 in my 1.3 Multijet at 600miles.
Its running sweet as a nut at 17,000 and uses no oil.
Regards
Edited by oilrag on 17/11/2007 at 21:54
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I take on board your suggestion NC, and i did expect some sort of oil use so far but no movement on the stick at all.
I will not go down the fully synthetic oil route anyway. Toyo don't seem to think its needed.
It isn't so long ago when we'd be taking a motor back at 1000 miles for its first oil change.
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>>It isn't so long ago....
Yet, so much has changed! Engine materials, machining processes, and, of course, the specification of the oil have all moved on significantly.
To concurr with 659's point above, lubrication based engine failure is unusual. Sometimes there are manufacturer or engine specific problems, like the Vauxhall cam chain lubrication being inadequate, but, news of these issues soon travels.
Number_Cruncher
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Had to go away for a while between typing and posting, looks as if the general consensus is that i could be doing some harm by sticking to my old way of doing things.
Do i have to do a Fagin ' i think i'd better think it out again'?
I'm only going by my experience of my own and others i know who have maintained their vehicles meticulously in the respect that they have had long service lives and been remarkably trouble free.
One of my first role models with maintenance was with a chap who owned a fleet of transits, back in the 70's with the V4 2 litre petrol engine.
His first van had an oil change evry 2000 miles with Duchams and covered 250,000 miles with no probs at all. Mileage unheard of in those days unless with very expensive machinery.
Please let me know what harm i'm likely to be causing.
Thanks gb
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Only to your wallet :) Its priceless for peace of mind.
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Some previous thoughts on the matter;
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=57...4
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=53...0
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=53...8
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=54...6
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=55...3
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=84...2
The real danger is the initial high oil consumption phase of engine running doesn't end - the rings and bores don't run-in --- ever! The engine then continues to use oil throughout its life, and in petrols, poisons the catalyst.
It sounds like your bores and rings have bedded in, as you're engine isn't using any oil at present. Therefore, you probably aren't risking anything by changing your oil in this particular case.
I would expect any running in to be well underway by 1000 miles.
Number_Cruncher
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Thankyou for your replies gentlemen, some varied views here and i appreciate your thoughts on this subject.
Thanks NC for the previous posts.
Oilrag, sounds like we keep ours serviced more than most.
Nortones (i hope i have your name correct from memory) the car is subject to abnormal use, Georgeous drives it... enthusiastically. ( she's from the Med and drives accordingly) .
I'm a member of an Aussie hilux forum (most of world also) and most of those lads seem to do there oils at 5000 km.
Wonder if we've been conditioned to trust these extended service intervals.
I'm cynical as hell and believe the industry doesn't want their vehicles to last too long.
ttfn
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>>I'm cynical as hell...
So was I when I first heard about extended service intervals.
But, now they have been around for a while, do you any *real* evidence to support the cynicism? If extended drain intervals were really so bad, the technical forum on here would be full of people with knackered engines.
I don't quite run engines as per the extended intervals - I'm not so bold yet! However, 3000 mile change intervals really should be condemned to history for most people.
Number_Cruncher
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But now they have been around for a while do you any *real* evidence to support the cynicism?
No, i can only say that people i know of with very high mileage trouble free vehicles have maintained them very well.
It would be interesting to hear of very high mileage motors that have only been basically maintained. Trouble is by their nature high mileage vehicles will be running warm and constantly (eg taxis) so their oils will be kept in peak condition.
Whereas ours is mainly stop start.
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dealer while in warranty and yourself when warranty ends
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I too think that changing the oil on you Hilux pick up at 3000 miles is a complete waste of time and money. Oils are a lot better than they used to be and are made to last a long time. At 3000 miles it will still be in peak condition. I see that the recommended service interval is 9000 miles and I think that is perfectly acceptable, but I wouldn't dream of changing it until the oil has done at least 6000 miles at a minimum.
As a side note I own a Yamaha R6 supersports bike and the engine/oil on that has to work a lot harder than your Toyota. For example the bike red-lines at 15,500rpm and the engine regularly gets spinning almost that fast. Tootling along the bike can be doing 6,000-8,000rpm and this is quite normal. My point is that the oil in my bike only gets changed between 4000 - 5000 miles and only ever has semi-synthetic oil in it. The recommended Yamaha service interval is 6000 miles by the way.
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In Oz, its the dust and the flies that force early changes:)
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