> who's to say your "silly mistake" wasnt a "deliberate attempt to defruad"?
Probably the parking authorities!
The defence really has to be that we came back to correct the error within seven minutes. The attendant didn't challenge this, and there is photographic evidence of our being there.
We were, however, not displaying a valid disc at the time the ticket was printed. Unless they let us off for coming back within a short period of time to sort it, then we'll have to pay up.
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well you have my sympathy gm although that wont pay the fine
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well best of luck, tho I doubt you will win, this would set a precedent about setting the wrong time on the clock, and bring the whole system into question.
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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"Bringing the whole system into question". Tut tut - that would never do! Savaging people who come somewhere to park and fill the tills of the shops and cafes in some dismal tourist trap! We can't let that happen! Time the system WAS questioned IMO
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 05/11/2007 at 14:03
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Technically the offence was committed.
However it may well be worth writing a 'nice' letter in outlining what you explain above and they may take pity. By writing in you put the extendef fine on hold until their reply.
If they reject then I would consider calling it a day and pay up.
dvd
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You have a more optimistic view of these people than me DVD - I think that as they have no reason to be lenient, they'll simply push for the money (their raison d'etre) and it doesn't sound like the most compelling mitigating circumstance.
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Nothing ventured nothing gained Nsar.
Recent published stats show good return for those objecting to the PCN's.
He may be lucky and come across a LA with heart.
dvd
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who's to say your "silly mistake" wasnt a "deliberate attempt to defruad"?
Certainly will be if he follows AS's advice!
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Whether he follows my advice or not he can't be worse off than having to pay the charge required. Did the ticket Hitler check the car's clock? Can he produce evidence on the setting one way or the other? Of course he can't. Therefore an element of doubt exists which might get the OP lenient treatment, something we might agree that he could get in the circumstances he described.
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I like "Ticket Hitler". Very apposite.
Thing is, to introduce that element of doubt, he'll have to tell the lie, won't he?
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Thing is to introduce that element of doubt he'll have to tell the lie won't he?
Saying the car clock was still on summer time may be a lie, saying I made a silly mistake and set the disk to british summer time which happens to be 1 hour ahead isn't a lie.
My car clock still is on summer time come to think of it!
Chris
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No. He might have left the clock on the wrong time and they can't prove whether he did or not as they don't have a photo of his car clock SFAIK. He doesn't have to say anything about it one way or the other. Just raise the possibility and let them prove it - which they cant. Reasonable doubt = innocent, except where motorists are concerend of course. Some doubt, plus paid in less than 10 minutes anyway, seems harsh but that is how this country runs, or doesn't run, depending on your point of view. Our learned friend DVD thinks it is worth a try so why not?
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 05/11/2007 at 19:10
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Maybe I wan't clear enough.
Who do you think is going to introduce the suggestion that Gordon's clock was wrong? You know the answer, because you've said it.
Unless Gordon is going to say, "Aha, but how do you know that my clock was right?" In which case, the sensible response is, "Was it right?" and he's stuck with having to lie again.
Don't forget, it's not part of the "prosecution's" case to show Gordon's clock was right.
And don't get me started on how many people misunderstand "reasonable doubt".
:-)
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Chrismo said his clock was wrong, in his car (earlier post). OP isn't going to be interrogated, making statements under oath with or without the benefit of the PACE caution. If the possibility that his car clock was wrong and that he used it set his disc can be introduced, but not as a fact, then there is some doubt and a parking adjudicator can decide if it is reasonable. I say again, if DVD thinks it is a worthwhile approach that is good enough for me.
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Chrismo said his clock was wrong in his car (earlier post). OP isn't going to be interrogated making statements under oath with or without the benefit of the PACE caution.
Oh, not PACE as well for pity's sake!
I think you've misread the earlier posts: Chrismo wan't the OP. Chrismo's option was entirely different to yours, and may well have been consonant with OP's circs. DVD's recommendation was a sensible one and was different to the other two, since it recommended owning up and not lying.
Edited by GroovyMucker on 05/11/2007 at 21:44
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I know what the Chrismo said and what OP said. Chrismo said his clock was wrong, I suggested that OP's might have been. DVD said write them a grovelling letter outlining the possible resons why the disc had been set at the wrong time and corrected with minutes, and if that doesn't work pay up and smile. I just said also that the situation was NOT arrest, interrogation, cautions, and PACE - just a written paper excercise ie the exchange of correspondence on the matter.
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>Can he produce evidence on the setting one way or the other?
yup - that will be the digital camera caried by the warden and piccy taken with ticket and clock
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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Just send them a letter. I have had 2 tickets quashed due to being an idiot. 1st was my residents parking permit fell off my dash. 2nd was very similar to you (i scratched the wrong date off).
In my case I had to write to the higways dept of the local authority, who basically told me not to be such an idiot in the future. They also removed the fine.
When I wrote to them I was totally honest and admited to my mistakes.
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It works well in italy. Last month I got a parking fine ?35 in Positano. Gave it to my friend who's wife is friends with the local mafia wives in naples.
No more parking fine.
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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did i mention i went to the moon this weekend in an anglia as well?photos coming soon watch this space
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did i mention i went to the moon this weekend in an anglia as well?photos coming soon watch this space
Liar
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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Liar
i do apologise it was mars :-~(
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/11/2007 at 00:51
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did i mention i went to the moon this weekend in an anglia as well?photos coming soon watch this space
>>bb , was it a 105E ?
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I'm sure people didn't used to get this exercised about things that didn't matter on here.
FYI, the warden won't be presenting a picture of my correctly set clock. The clock is part of the radio display, and it is not visible when the car is not running.
However, I have already sent the following:
I received the above PCN yesterday for not displaying a valid parking disc. As advised by your attendant, I am writing to appeal.
I parked in Ambleside at 15:28. However, I mistakenly set my disc at 16:28.
We returned to the car seven minutes later at 15:35 to find your attendant, who had already issued the ticket. Your attendant has photographic evidence of this.
The attendant did not question that the car had only been parked for seven minutes, nor question that the disc had been set in error rather than in an attempt to gain extra parking. She was apologetic, but explained that she had already printed the ticket and had no authority to cancel it.
As we almost immediately noticed our genuine mistake and returned to correct it, the £30 fine seems rather excessive. I?m not trying to claim anything other than a stupid mistake on my part, but I?m hoping that you will consider cancelling the ticket given the circumstances.
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Good move.
Open honesty is always the best policy - I hope you get the right result.
--
Colin-E
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That sets the right tone, might do the trick! Please let us know the result!
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Yup
There is always a place for a good grovel. It makes matey at parking office feel all powerful and sanctemonious. He may even be swayed to bless you with his power and let you off.
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< Ulla>
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It only takes a few minutes to write a letter. I've had two of the three tickets issued to me over the years cancelled.
Nothing ventured.....
Clk Sec
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Got my reply this morning. They do not see there are sufficient grounds to cancel the ticket.
I am going to write back to the council, stating that I?ve paid, but also informing them that they have just ensured that I will not spend money in Ambleside again.
I can?t think of a year in the last eight years when I?ve not spent at least £500 on outdoor gear there. We were planning on returning next weekend to spend £650 on a mountain bike from one of their stores, and I plan to write to the store concerned letting them know why they?ve lost the sale.
If the council are going to be so completely rigid with their enforcement, who?s to say that we won?t get stung again if we?re 5 mins late back to the car. I?m voting with my wallet.
I?m really annoyed, both with myself and with the council for their attitude. I don?t like being treated as a cashpoint by officialdom. I?m glad I took the honest approach tho.
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>>Got my reply this morning. They do not see there are sufficient grounds to cancel the ticket.<<
Quelle surprise.......
This happened to me a few weeks ago in Clitheroe and I felt exactly the same as you do now. Trouble is that my trip was to the wine merchants there so I can't guarantee that I won't return!
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Sent the following. Completely pointless, but I've been feeling ill all week, and it makes me feel better to have a vent.
I do feel quite guilty about taking business away from the shops there, as they've been excellent, but that's why I'm going to make sure they know why they've lost the business.
There's quite a good view from up here on my high horse!
"Thank you for your letter dated 8th November 2007, where you turned down my request to cancel the PCN issued to me last weekend. You correctly pointed out that I had set my parking disc incorrectly, and therefore you saw no reason to cancel the ticket.
I wanted to write to point out the consequences for Ambleside of a draconian parking policy with no room for small errors. Your attendant was completely open about errors such as mine being extremely common, or for people to get back to their cars 5 mins late, apparently especially in the morning.
I can?t think of a year since 1998 where I have spent less than £500 in Ambleside over the year. I was in the village with my girlfriend last weekend to visit Ghylside Cycles. We planned to return next weekend to spend £650 on a new mountain bike. We now won?t be. I really can?t rule out some silly error such as getting back slightly late to the car, and a £30 fine is just ridiculous. So, we?ll take our business elsewhere.
I?ve copied this letter to your local councillor, and I?ll be writing to Ghylside Cycles, the Climbers Shop and Gaynors, where we have spent the majority of our money, to let them know why we won?t be spending there in the future.
Ambleside relies on tourists for it?s income. I both understand and support the disc scheme ? it has transformed the parking situation in the village and is generally a good thing. I am simply aggravated at how you have applied the letter of the law here for what was an obvious and quickly corrected error. "
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I've never been to Ambleside. Thanks for letting us know they have adopted the awful parking disc scheme as it means I can avoid it in future.
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yes daveyip put your foot on one of those and you could do a right mischief
Gordon M you tried you failed ,dont cut your nose though or the motorbikes will take over the asylum.
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I'm not sure I understand how with-holding your cash from an innocent business is going to help. If you like those shops and they give you a good deal then going to another shop is just hurting the guys you like and you if the alternative shop isn't as good.
And let's face it the council aren't going to give a monkey's about your letter.
Edited by Nsar on 09/11/2007 at 17:23
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Do the crime, do the time. I'm off to Ambleside now, I've heard there is a spare parking place!
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well synchronise all watches first
chocs away..................
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And let's face it the council aren't going to give a monkey's about your letter.
They will when all the shops close and the place turns into a ghost town........ then they won't have to spend tax payers money on parking wardens as there won't be any cars to check.
Good on you Gordon.
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I'm certain the council won't give a monkeys. I'm sure the shops will though. If nobody stands up to the little tyrants then nothing changes.
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excuse my ignorance, but how does a disc parking scheme work?
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You get a free disc from newsagents etc in the town. It's a square card about the size of CD case with a moving disc inside. It allows you to show the time you parked by means of a clock face on the disc revealed in the window of the card sleeve. You stick it in on your dash in a parking area which allows you to park for free for say 2 hours. You come back within two hours, no problem. You don't, you get a ticket.
Actually a really elegant way to control parking - no machines/ tickets/money etc. (that's not a dig at the OP by the way).
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I am off down the bookie. I laid a bet you would get all bitter and twisted when your letter failed.
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< Ulla>
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Oooooh yeah, it's predictable, but pointless venting makes you feel so much better :-)
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ive only been in a bookies once in 1984 with a friend,cant see the fascination,you work hard for your money why give it away through a glass screen,
sure things are what you need,now can i interest you in this low mileage lady owned seat ibiza ?
please yourself
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You tried Gordon......but the letter did not succeed. Sometimes they do.
At the end of the day whether by accident or design you presented yourself to be shot and were ....so who was to blame?
dvd
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My friend Kermit says the thread title is giving him and his mates a bad name!
--
L\'escargot.
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I wouldn't worry too much about what Kermit thinks - but if Miss Piggy don't like it, I foresee real trouble for Gordon!
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I've never presented this as anything other than muppetry on my part (although I might rethink that - the point about Miss Piggy is a good one). I wasn't going to get into lying about it either.
Interestingly, I got an answer phone message from the councillor I copied in on my letter this morning. It appears that they are aware that lack of lenience with stupid (my word) tourists is a problem for them, and he wants to talk to get more details. It won't save me any money, but you never know...
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