Planning ahead...are there any definitive studies on the cost of holding a car from new to [say] 3 years over years 4-6 for example, including likely maintenance costs?
I'm considering a change and looking at BMW 3 Tourer, C Class [old shape, don't go for the new one], new C5, Legacy, and Focus Estate. But whether to buy new or used increases the options by quite a lot. Probably going for a petrol too, not over 2 litres.
I also assume that a top of the range Focus is probably indistinguishable from a Beemer given my type of driving. Views please!
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 01/11/2007 at 18:11
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can't see the point from buying brand new. Why not consider a 1yr/10k miler as that will have lost anything up to/above 20% from new list price and hopefully eb nicely run in for you.
I am sure others will disagree.
I bought a 5 series at 1yo/10k miles and am still going strong 6 years later. I am toying with a change but can't really see the point as it has reached that level where it is not worth much and I would have to spend a lot to replace with anything like it.
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Buying new only makes sense if there is a particular car you want that is not available second hand.
Like the OP is considering, I have just agreed to buy a 2-year old C320CDI estate - for almost £20,000 less than a new one to a similar spec will probably list at! And like him the new C class leaves me a bit cold.
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Buying new is the only way to ensure that a common rail diesel has not been mis-fueled, and it's also the only way of getting a realistic length of a proper warranty.
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How about buying pre-registered? I paid £8k under list for a pre-reg Legacy with 10 miles on the clock from a main dealer. Nothing nicer than almost or brand new if you can afford it and you then have at least 3 years without any worries.
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3yr depreciation figures are based on drop from list price new to book at 3 yrs. So if you negotiate a hefty discount then your loss is less and you get a car that, these days, will be reliable and not damaged, misfuelled, shagged etc.
If buying something that is not discounted then used could well be a better proposition.
My policy, given that I prefer to drive a small, mass-market car, is to buy new at the best discount, keep the car until it falls apart, then sell privately and move on to another discounted new car.
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Lots of differing philosophies here - all of course with merit.
Most mass market cars have a 3 year warranty with a mileage limit, often 60k. A major service by a main dealer costs a surprisingly large proportion of the cost of a second hand car unless you're buying semi-exotica. My purchasing policy, on a car with high depreciation was to buy the best 2 year old I could find from a dealer, bargain into the deal any desirable extras (cruise control in my case), then close the deal by insisting on a long-life service.
I managed to get the diesel car I wanted at 2 years old and 20k miles with a year's remaining warranty and not requiring further dealer servicing attention during the warranty period - important in view of the extortionate cost. It was about half list price.
659.
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Do you feel the same as me that things have changed so drastically with the technology on cars that our buying habits and reasoning has altered comletely.
5 years ago i would not have dreamed of buying new purely because of the massive losses involved.
But because of the dreadful costs involved in putting problems right, problems we home mechanics would have sorted ourselves even 6 or 8 years ago, i for one have been forced to change and we bought our first new vehicle this year.
And i confess i would be very worried about having a vehicle built in the last few years out of warranty.
On the servicing front that was one of our criteria, that it was affordable (one hour cambelt change when necc also).
So we will be in the same boat as lots of others now,, when to change/upgrade, to keep and hope or get another under warranty.
Reckon when the old merc dies (many years with luck) that too will be replaced with new, and i reckon it'll be a Kia.
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And i confess i would be very worried about having a vehicle built in the last few years out of warranty. On the servicing front that was one of our criteria that it was affordable (one hour cambelt change when necc also). So we will be in the same boat as lots of others now when to change/upgrade to keep and hope or get another under warranty.
I don't understand how buying new has solved this in ways that buying a few month old approved used car from a main dealer wouldn't. You could have saved thousands, or got a better car for the same money.
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And i agree with you Michael, unfortunately as the auto diesel has only been available for about 6 months and we had a new vehicle cheaper than we could get an ex demo, bizzare but true.
Plus as one of the other posters has said i don't care to take the risk of abuse or misfueling of buying used, i didn't mind so much when vehicles were simpler but this is no longer the case and in fact we have bought as simple as possible deliberately.
The trouble also in our case is that the vehicle we bought tends to be issued to lead footed company drivers so same thoughts apply.
Its an experiment i suppose, trouble is so much of the technology is new and we won't know for several years when we're having our discussions here whether we got it right or dropped a very big clanger.
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When I bought my car new last year I was weighing up the pros and cons of buying new versus second hand. However from my experience most cars supplied by dealers under one year old did'nt come out much less than buying a new one after taking into account discounts and finance deals (for example my car was interest free for 3 years) making it much more affordable than a 1 year old car with which I would be paying interest on.
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When I bought my New Colt for 6k, second hand ones in the press cost more, maybe if I'd worked hard for a discount a second hand one would have come in a few hundred but whats the point. New cars only seem expensive when comparing second hand ones to the original RRP, include tax, servicing and parts cost later in life and new wins quite often.
Buy what you want and when you want it !
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The deciding factor for me is the mileage I do (about 20,000 pa) and the greater chance of reliability, together with the security of a 3-year warranty, that you get with a new car.
A colleague who does 6,000 miles pa spent £20,000 on a 2.5-year-old Mercedes C320 estate - making perfect sense in his situation, although Gordon's point is very well made about the horrific potential cost of something like this out of warranty.
I agree with you, Ed, about the merits of the top-of-the-range Focus estate, exceot that there are too many of them about and they lose their value quickly. My Golf estate is great but it's a diesel - there are no decent petrol engines offered wth it, but the Octavia vRS can be had as an estate, and that's worth considering new (or pre-registered if you can find one). VW GTI engine in an estate body - a great combination.
I'm not keen on nearly-new, for the reasons others have given above, although I might be tempted if I were in the market for a Ford or Vauxhall, or a French car, as they drop quickly and you could save a lot of money. Not worth it with the German wagen - nearly-new Audis in paerticular seem mostly to be ex-demo or ex-HQ and loaded with extras and thus more expensive at 6-12 months old than a new one without the extras.
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nearly new? that would have to be petrol for me. Writing as a diesel fan of 14 yrs there`s no way I would risk a `moved on` misfueled common rail.
Well, to slightly misquote Mandy, "they would, wouldnt they?" `
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If you're considering a Ford, it's worth knowing that Ford sell ex-employees cars at low mileages at auction. My current 03/03 Focus came from this source. It was 16 months old and had done only 4000 miles. I just told a Ford dealer what I wanted ~ model, variant, colour etc. ~ and within a few days they'd found one for me. And it it came with a couple of factory fitted options. The price was £1000 under book for a car of that age. The only drawback was that the brake discs were corroded because of it's low usage but subsequently with nothing more than normal use they've cleaned up satisfactorily. Other than that it was indestinguishable from new. It came with the balance of three years warranty. One advantage is that when I sell it the mileage will still be low for it's age compared to what it would have been if I'd bought it new.
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L\'escargot.
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If you're considering a Ford it's worth knowing that Ford sell ex-employees cars at low mileages at auction. My current 03/03 Focus came from this source. It was 16 months old and had done only 4000 miles.
16mths seems very old...my MB was ex-MB management but it was only 5mths old. I used to work for Ford (albeit many years ago) and the cars were changed at 6-9mths, and my neighbour is a retired Vauxhall employee and he gets a new car every 6mths (pays peanuts for it per month).
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16mths seems very old...my MB was ex-MB management but it was only 5mths old.
I accepted when I bought it that it had stood around unused for quite a time, but as I said the only things to have suffered were the brake discs and they cleaned up OK of their own accord. But ....... while it was standing doing nothing it was still depreciating to my advantage. Add to that the fact that I got it £1000 under book for it's age and I think I got a bargain. With modern rust-proofing cars don't suffer from standing idle like they used to. I'd have no qualms whatsoever about getting another from the same source.
The purchase I wouldn't repeat was a 4 months old car that had done 8000 miles. 8000 miles doesn't sound much on it's own but when it's been done in 4 months it's a high mileage ~ it equates to 24000 miles per year. That car was always going to be high mileage for it's age when it came for me to sell it.
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L\'escargot.
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A colleague who does 6,000 miles pa spent £20,000 on a 2.5-year-old Mercedes C320 estate
That's a lot - my 5mth old C270 Estate cost £23K (£34K list).
no way I would risk a `moved on` misfueled common rail.
It may not cover prior misfueling, but I'd be nervous about taking on a diesel without some sort of cover.
MB have a service and maint deal which I don't think they push hard enough, called ServicePlus. It runs for up to 6yrs / 120K miles and it's cost varies depending on start / finish and annual mileages. On my car from 3-6 yrs old, 12K miles per year it costs just under £80/mth. Not cheap, but it does give piece of mind until the car is 6 yrs old.
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Hello Bill Payer
"That's a lot - my 5mth old C270 Estate cost £23K (£34K list)."
Any chance of sharing your knowledge and telling us how/where you found such a good bargain?
Hello to all "huge risk/cost of misfuelled diesel-engines" mass hysteria spreaders:
Where does this mass hysteria originate from?
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I buy ex fleet 2 year old at auction. That gives you rock bottom price and there is still a year of the manufacturers warranty left. Because I go for Ford or GM there is maximum depreciation. I then keep it till it dies. If you look after it well you should get at least 10 years out it. I would suggest that the OP considers getting someone like Joe Dowd the auction buyer to look out for a 12 month or 18 month old top spec Focus or Mondeo. You then have the balance of the warranty to check out whether it is a good car and if not you can sell it on for a minimal loss because it was bought at a minimal price. Mind you I would be surprised if an expert like Joe picked a dud. Every one on here who has used him has been very happy.
I would agree with the other posters who said stick to petrol. That sounds like good advice.
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"a top of the range Focus is probably indistinguishable from a Beemer"
I'm sure HJ would agree with you, although most onlookers wouldn't. If you don't care, then it doesn't matter!
I'm a s/h man myself, but it's your money. We need people to keep the chain going... :-)
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