If automotive technology had been frozen during the seventies and no new devlopment had been allowed since then, which "ordinary" car from that era would you pick that would be most acceptable to live with to-day, and would come closest to matching to-day's' reliability and performance?
Based on my own experience, I would pick the Mk1 Cavalier. It was solid and reliable mechanically, drove well and was pleasing to look at in a design that would not look too far out of place now. It was also the first car I owned where I never had to spend a penny on rust removers. (My plastic pig excepted, of course). How many other run of the mill cars do people think would still cut it?
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Without the improvements in rust proofing, long life bearings, and the superior lubricants of today?
None could match modern cars.
My father owned a yellow mark 1 cavalier. It was cramped in the rear, radio aerial fell apart internally with corrosion and the dreaded rust bug hit after 18 months.
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Not many 70's cars but IMO many cars from the 80's would be very acceptable to me if nothing else the fact that with a reasonable mechanical leaning your overall running costs would be very much lower.
Otherwise mk 1 Golf, BMW2002, Datsun/Nissan Bluebird (did anyone ever scrap a bluebird for mechanical probs or was it always rust).
aerial fell apart internally with corrosion and the dreaded rust bug hit after 18 months.
Could be taliking about a year 2000 prestige German saloon.
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Otherwise mk 1 Golf
Can do you one, brand new, out the box, for about 5 grand, squire!
Still made here, y'know.
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If today's component quality applies; then the XJ6; BMW CSL; or even the RO80.
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It has to be a Mercedes W123 - beats any other car of that era into a cocked hat.
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Lancia Beta HPE. Really!
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Princess 2200 Auto with vynil roof and front centre arm rests
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Define your definition of reliability and performance.
My Italian is a bit rusty.
Edited by Glaikit Wee Scunner {P} on 30/10/2007 at 12:40
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My Italian is a bit rusty.
Don't you mean your Ital GWS?
:o)
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Lancia Beta HPE. Really!
But maybe with the Trevi dashboard? Shiver......
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It would have to be a Rover P5B Coupe!
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Triumph 2.5PI or 2500s - even the styling would be acceptable today.
Billy
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Imagine a reliable Stag.......
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"Trevi dashboard"
No! The HPE dashboard was very nice - even included oil level.
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A Citroën DS23 EFi Pallas. Today's technology, yesterday :-)
Needed a better engine, I suppose....
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"DS23"
I nearly put the CX, but the engines were so out of character. Mind you, that's just reminded me of the GS Birotor...
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"no new development"
That's the tricky bit. There were some fine cars in that era that would still be very acceptable with a relatively small amount of extra work, e.g. the Triumph 2.5PI and Stag. The RO80 *was* pretty well sorted by the end of the decade, but the mud stuck, as with Lancia. Make any of them with galvanised steel, and half the problems would go away!
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i second the princess but would like an xj saloon or xjs or the shape of an sd1 wouldn't look out of place today
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A Mk1 Fiesta and would serve me very well today. Reliable, easy to maintain, decent performance and good fuel economy.
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W123 Mercedes. Many are still running and continue to stand comparison with modern cars, despite 25 years' use, minimal unscheduled maintenance and 250k miles. If they've been kept well waxoyled and have had the driver's seat springs replaced, and had the ATF changed regularly they're as good as new and without complex technology they're probably more reliable than modern cars - provided you don't mind operating the central locking manually.
They are still so popular, in fact, that they are nearly impossible to keep on the street as they are nicked by gangs who break them.
If MB were to restart making them, I'd be on the waiting list.
What about the Morgan? It's probably not a 'normal' car though, but much of that is unchanged since that period.
The Jaguar probably doesn't fit under 'normal' either, but a handsome car nonetheless.
I think we can safely conclude that motor technology *could* have stopped evolving in the 70s.
Edited by Mapmaker on 30/10/2007 at 13:22
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Volvo Amazon ( 120 ) estate, an auto if there was one still round.
I think equals the W123 Merc for durability and such a pretty but restrained car.
One of the true greats for classic car ownership.
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Mk ii Polo, too. What more do you need for a shopping trolley with an engine? Provided you're not too much of a pansy, that is. Plenty of those still going.
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My uncle was driving around in an E23 BMW 732i auto until quite recently, and it always astonished me how quiet and modern it felt inside. Yes, the materials were very late 70's/early 80's and the dash design looked very dated, but it rode well, pulled like a train and the noise levels were incredibly low. I don't know how much power it made, but I strongly suspect it was the interesting side of 200 bhp, and was near silent at the legal limit.
Lovely, lovely exhaust note too.
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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For me it would have to be a Morris 1800- loads of space, comfortable seating(red leather), and excellent suspension and roadholding. We owned one for about 4 years, and I can't recall it ever letting us down. Drove it down to the south of Spain three times.
P.
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Unfortunately, the fuel consumption of the more upmarket 70's cars would be far from welcome today - as would the spartan nature of the more economical models.
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Was the Mazda RX3 1970s? Twin-rotor Wankel in chunky nondescript small saloon?
I saw one getting wheelspin in Portobello Road once, on a day when the market was open too. Quite fancied one for a moment or two.
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Mk1 Escort. That rifle bolt gearbox and steering were second to none for tactile feed back.
A nice 1300 GT I think. In Red.
One car i wont allow through the timewarp?
A hilman avenger (unless its a tiger)
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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rover SDi 3.5 v8
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saw a very tidy mk2 Escort the other day surrounded by modern cars, it looked very small compared to todays equivalents. That would do me, reliable and easy to repair if it did go wrong. Or the Datsun Violet ( why DO they have such silly names?) 160J SSS I used to have - apart from the terminal rust as mentioned earlier.
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Rover SD1 V8 or Citroen CX Turbo, but in both cases only if built by Toyota or Mercedes.
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I would be happy with a Volvo P1800S. There is a dark green one near where I live and it still looks really stylish despite having finished production in 1973. Can hear that theme tune from the Saint now for some reason!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_P1800
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Sorry, nick, the CX GTi Turbo was released in 1984 (can't remember when the diesel turbo was born, mind!).
I'd second the SD1, but then again the Vitesse had to wait until the 80's, I think :-(
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True, I always preferred the dash on the original CX anyway and the series 1 SD1.
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rover SDi 3.5 v8
>>
It's an SD1,not i.It's a common error to assume i for injection,the non Vitesse models ran two huge SU HIF sixes,SD stands for 'special development'.
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I know it's not a car but the Honda CX 500 I had in '78 could not be faulted for reliability and ease of maintenance. Bit of a work horse, not exciting but by 'eck, it did it's job.
Regards,
John R @ Work :¬)
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I grew up with Granadas and Cortinas, so would have to be one of those, although my dad did have a curiously diverse selection of metal inthe 70s - Cortinas, Talbot Alpine, Passat, Escort MkI and not one but two Datsun 140J's - never seem to see them collected as much as the smaller Datsuns of the era.
I've always wondered though - with the advances in manufacturing, how much would it cost to make the simpler cars of the 70s today, if one were able to ignore things such as safety and emissions legislation? I wonder if someone did replica MkII Escorts, say, with better rustproofing and a modern but still simple engine, what could they knock them out for, and would folk buy them?
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I never got much chance to drive many "decent" cars from the '70s but I was always impressed with my uncle's Triumph 2000 mk1 and my boss's 2.5PI so my vote would be for a Triumph 2.5PI but with modern Bosch fuel injection.
Edited by Ruperts Trooper on 30/10/2007 at 16:46
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A Renault 4 (obviously as a Berlingo driver!) and I'd be lusting after a CX or a DS.
I also liked that big Rover 2000 style thing - was it a 3.5?
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Phil
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I thought it would be simple - all of the above.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 30/10/2007 at 18:49
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im with you Robin Reliant the mk1 cavalier was a revelation in comfort power and handling after a decade of old tosh
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mk1 cavalier, i remember it used to rise at the back axle as you pulled away because of the upright petrol tank behind the back seat, very weird till you got used to it
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Late model Peugeot 104S would be well sorted, zippy, comfortable and at home on the motorway as in town. Almost the first warm hatch. I had the ZS shortcut version which, while v comfortable in the front, was rather lacking in creature comforts at the back.
An understanding of electrics, head gaskets and wet liner construction I lacked in 1983-6 would mean fewer expensive visits to the dealer!!.
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Easy one this. I use both my 1977 3.0 mk1 Granada Ghia (it's older than me!) and 1982 2.8 Granada Ghia regularly (often for work too) - note the mk2 came out in late 1977 so is a seventies car also! Both are extremely reliable, smooth, quiet and the V6 engines (especially the grunty 3.0 Essex in the mk1) sound superb. There so good that I quite often leave my company car at home for a more interesting drive to work, and they go out in all weathers (although I try not to take them out too much if there is a lot of salt on the roads).
.*********
The mk1 Ghia though however is very basic in terms of 'toys' when compared to the mk2 Ghia. I.E. no central locking, electric windows, very basic mw/lw radio with one dash speaker, no locking fuel cap... it's surprising the change from the mk1 to the mk2.
Both are also a doddle to service and maintain.
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One car i wont allow through the timewarp?
A hilman avenger (unless its a tiger) >>
How can a Hillman Avenger Tiger be allowed?
The Sunbeam Tiger should be nominated - half-decent '60s sports car with a smallblock V8 from Ford (didn't Chrysler do smallblock V8s or was it developed before they bought Rootes).
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Merc Estate. I always coverted them.
Rover SD1 3.5v8
Range Rover
Ford Escort Mk 2 estate or saloon. I actually had a 74 4 door saloon in the mid 80s. It was an absolutely cracking car.
Mini, with todays fuel prices, but at 6'4" I would have to have the drivers seat right back. I had a 1969 850 as my first car.
Datsun Bluebird - er no thanks. Reminded me of those taxis in Tokyo that were always as clean as a whistle, but the rust was horrendous.
RR Silver Ghost - never mind the 10 miles to the gallon, but what a lovely car. Nowadays I would fancy a nice Silver Spirit.
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Ford Escort Mk 2 estate or saloon. I actually had a 74 4 door saloon in the mid 80s. It was an absolutely cracking car.
'74 Escort was mk1, I remember my 1.3L 2-door fondly. mk2 was '75.
There wasn't a real mk2 Escort estate - it was a mk1 with a mk2 grill and dasboard - again our '80 1.3GL fondly remembered.
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in reply to Ruperts T:
there was a bit more to a mk2 Escort than that - it had the mk2 bonnet and similar front wings, it was just the crease line was the 'other way round' as I found out when trying to fit an RS2000 front end to mine :( The OHC Pinto engine would go in too if you swapped over the sump pans and did a bit of hammering...
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I never got much chance to drive many "decent" cars from the '70s but I was always impressed with my uncle's Triumph 2000 mk1 and my boss's 2.5PI so my vote would be for a Triumph 2.5PI but with modern Bosch fuel injection.
The Triumph is strictly 60s rather than 70s, but I find my 1964 mk 1 a very acceptable everyday driver. It is fast, comfortable, and very reliable.
Unrestored, in daily use since new - I am the second owner.
I always get a shock whenever I meet it out and about when my wife's driving. It looks so stylish I think I'd like to own one - then I realise it's mine.
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My choice would be a 1750 Austin Maxi,the wheel at each corner meant it handled well and the suspension meant heavy loads could be carried and the car remained level,I know thanks to BL problems they were not tops for relialbility but my two company cars so this did not affect me.
Re the vauxhall cavilier mentioned I thought the first one was on an X plate 1983,I chose one as another company car when my choice was a 1600 Cortina or a 1600Cavelier.The Ford was 75bhp,the Vauxhall 90bhp so my choice was easy,it was a genuine 100mph car,I believe the first in bread and butter range.
ndbw
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There was a rear wheel drive Cavalier (A Belgian built Ascona) - I had a beige S plate 1600 for a short while - very, very well built motor.
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Although Cavalier-A (mk1) was simply an Opel Ascona, many cars were built at Luton, but even in those days GM Europe had multi-plant production.
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I still think beige though mine was a yellowy beige. A friend had a 1300cc (Vauxhall Viva) engined one, significant difference in cars.
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One car I would love to own again was the '74 Capri Mk1 facelift I bought in about '79, in my opinion the best looker of all the Capris. It suffered from the usual camshaft death rattle and I was only saved from renewing it when a couple of joyriders borrowed it, and when it was recovered I had to buy a new engine as it came back knocking like hell with the oil light refusing to go out. I wonder if modern oils would rid the Pinto of it's appetite for cams?
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I wonder if modern oils would rid the Pinto of it's appetite for cams?
They did. It was the advent of API-SG that cured the sludging problem that blocked the spraybar.
Ford made very few changes to the commendably simple layout; it was just waiting for better oils.
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Daimler Double Six if i had enough money to afford the exhausts and fuel .........if not Capri, maybe an RS 3.2....... (dream, dream)
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I wonder if modern oils would rid the Pinto of it's appetite for cams?
I believe that the US Pinto engine was the laboratory test bed for the API series of oil grades but has been replaced to allow testing of the SL, SM & SN grades.
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Nobody has mentioned the landrover which retains its cult status and following today.
2CV and Beetle likewise.
Thought I suppose the above three are all 1940s technology. And the Mini is what? 1950s? And heaven knows why anybody would CHOOSE to drive any of them.
Perhaps they haven't been mentioned because they are all massively outclassed by modern cars; whereas, say, the W123 has not.
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If I could keep the 1970s design but with 2007 quality, it'd have to be the Alfasud!
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If I could keep the 1970s design but with 2007 quality it'd have to be the Alfasud!
Yes,I second that. I had two Alfasuds and they were brilliant. Just one question-can I have my youth back as well?
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hurrying on- to a receding future
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And I'll 'third' it. As well as the Lancia HPE (although, to be fair, mine was '82 with a more rustproofing).
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One car I would love to own again was the '74 Capri Mk1 facelift I bought in about '79 in my opinion the best looker of all the Capris.
With the benefit of time, The Mk1 pre faclift, with its xlr trimmings is the better looker.
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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With the benefit of time The Mk1 pre faclift with its xlr trimmings is the better looker. ------------------------------ < Ex RF Ex TVM >
RIGHT, OUTSIDE NOW YOU BAS...
Ahem, cough cough
I spose it's all a matter of taste really AE (cough cough)
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Mazda rotary - I had an R100 (it went on 50/50 petrol /paraffin, but the smell gave it away) and an RX4, but could I have an RX7, galvanized, please?
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Sorry to be an anorak on this. The Mk II Escort estate was a Mk I from the windscreen backwards. The front wings were totally unique to this model to blend the Mk I bodyshell to the Mk II front panel and grill. Less obvious changes were the use of Mk II rear springs (change to single leaf during production run) which gave a better ride and quite a few detail changes. Sadly few survive as the rust traps (particularly sills and rear arches) also carried over!
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my overiding memory of the mk 1/11 escort estates were 1100 engines with braying cranks and absolutely devoid of any comfort in the cab, rubber on the floor as well for carpets that used to stink of baby wee when you lifted them up to do the necessary floor to sill and kick panel welding repairs
redifusion and or radio rentals used to run millions of these things at one time
forgot about the wing difference RaineMan wonder how many that fooled over the years with their glass fibre copy wings
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