There are quite a few issues here.
To lay these out clearly: there is the claimed right of access to the garage - does such a right exist, and, if so, does parking a car as described actually prevent access? Your local council should be able to clarify the first and possibly a solicitor the second.
Then there is the neighbour's threat to clamp. As the vehicle is on a public highway, and even if an offence is being committed, does a private individual have the right to interfere in any way with the vehicle, whether or not a warning has been given? Maybe this is one for a solicitor also.
It seems to me that getting these issues cleared up is the first step; then you must consider how far you want the legal rights and wrongs to determine your own actions. To avoid ill feeling and the possiblitiy that your neighbour could damage your car (which could be difficult to prove), you might decide not to stand by the legal niceties. Pursuing what some might regard as a trivial dispute might also prove very costly.
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If your neighbour wanted to get a big m/c in or out of that garage...or a large piece of furniture etc, etc.......then presumably with a car parked there he couldn't, which is quite anti-social for starters and probably an offence (either highway obstruction or unnecessary obstruction).
To get your head around the principle of it....imagine it's the workshop entrance to a furniture making shop.....and every time someone parks there they can't get stuff in/out .......regardless of whether they park cars in there.
Edited by Westpig on 26/10/2007 at 15:48
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I found this snippet somewhere (maybe even on this site - I can't remember).
?A driver shall be committing an offence under this act by parking adjacent to a dropped footway or kerb which is provided for pedestrian or vehicular access. If the access is not shared by other premises, the local authority can only issue a penalty charge notice if requested to do so by the occupier of the premises.? (Transport for London Act 2003, Sec.14, Part 4b)
Knowledge of more of the Act could be useful, but I don't have any.
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All valid points, thanks for the responses.
The only point I would throw in to the 'obstruction' debate is: up until 4 years ago this was a disabled parking bay. It was treated as such and non-disabled parkers were ticketed.
Does this mean even the disabled drivers shouldn't have been parking there blocking the shed doors?
Will definitely try and get the council's position on this. In terms of an ongoing argument with these neighbours, forget it - I probably won't bother, it's just not worth the hassle. It's easier to just park somewhere else.
They can tow someone else's car :-)
Thanks,
Matt
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Does this mean even the disabled drivers shouldn't have been parking there blocking the shed doors?
I think you're trying to trivialise the matter by calling the building a shed instead of a garage. In any case, whatever happened to common sense and and fair play? Regardless of the legalities of the situation it's not unreasonable for the owner to want to have unhindered access.
--
L\'escargot.
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DE
That only applies where GLC have made a Special Parking area which should be signed(See Section 14.) In any case this is not a 'dropped kerb' is it.
Vaguely remember something under Town Police Clauses Act 1847 (?) the offence of the door of a dwelling not to open outwards onto the highway. But this is not a dwelling.
May benefit to have words with Local Authority but at the end of the day.......remember what Winston said........"Jaw, jaw, jaw is better than war,war,war."
or sliding door?
dvd
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.......and clamping. Must be licensed under Security Industry Act........
dvd
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If you don't park there, do they park their car there? Is it just their way of claiming 'ownership' of the public highway.
If there's no drop kerb, they have no vehicular right of way, and you are entitled to park there. Although I would probably park elsewhere for the reasons already given.
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boxsterboy - you've hit the nail on the head. As soon as we moved our car, their car was moved liked a rocket into the spot in front the shed.
L'escargot - fully agree, that's why I won't park there anymore. Fair play. I just wanted to debate the legal position, which we'll follow up with the council. However, I'm not going to fight any argument.
My point is that those doors haven't been opened in the 5 years I've lived there. But the mere fact he has them guarantees him a car park outside the shed. Clever move - I would have done exactly the same :-)
Thanks to all for the comments
Matt
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It's amazing how possessive people have become with car parking shame you need a permit really cause buying a £50 car and parking it outside (Sorn) on the public highway would have right royally riled them.
Problem is they have obviously been thinking and planning about what to do with this "land" that cars are parked in so have felt it within there right to threaten you. So now if they are sad enough to do this you can guarantee the next step will be damage to your car.
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surely if he parks his own car there, if he wants access to his shed he can move his own car.......so he isn't being blocked
if anyone else parks their car there, then they do block his garage
obviously he has the added bonus of constantly having a parking space...but hey ho that's life.
maybe an option would be to offer him a spare set of your car keys, so that if he needs to move your car, he can......:-)
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>>Regardless of the legalities of the situation it's not unreasonable for the owner to
>>want to have unhindered access.
Hear, hear. I'm surprised no-one else mentioned this (very good) point much earlier in the thread.
>>My point is that those doors haven't been opened in the 5 years I've lived there. But
>>the mere fact he has them guarantees him a car park outside the shed. Clever
>>move - I would have done exactly the same :-)
No doubt that this is probably the main motivation behind his current actions, but unfortunately it is his prerogative to use it to his own advantage. And would it be fair to say that their is a hint of jealousy from your camp?
Can you and your neighbours just avoid parking in this particular spot or is parking really that tight when it comes to your street?
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If the one-time disabled bay argument is relevant at all, one has to ask, whose bay was it? I can't see the shed owner being too happy at allowing the council to designate it - or was it perhaps done for him or his predecessor?
(Yes I know disabled bays are not for any particular user, but any who qualify, but councils don't just paint them singly at random in residential streets - they are there because of individual special needs)
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peter kay had his own disabled parking spot put down by his bouncers complete with vase of beer,maybe the last owner of the house was indeed a budding rolf harris and did his own painting on the road?,i still dont know if this is private or adopted larnd
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The disabled bay was primarily in place for a resident of another property (although any disabled badge holder could have parked there).
I agree that it would be very strange of the council to have done this without the permission of the garage owner, as it would have potentially blocked access to the doors. Anyway, that was years ago and it's not a disabled space now.
Parking is tight in the street, but not so tight I'm jealous of this guy's situation. We hadn't parked there for months and it was the only space when I got home the other night. They've told us not to park there, so no problem, we won't.
In fact I'm actually impressed he's able to leverage the situation to help secure a street park for his family. Like I said further up - clever move, I would have done the same.
Cheers,
Matt
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Meant to add..
What will be interesting is how he polices this with other drivers?
There is someone parking there EVERY day/night. Obviously we'll stop using it, but it will take some time for the rest of the street (and their visitors) to get the message.
If they don't get the message, it will be interesting to see how far he's prepared to go to defend this space against other 'less obliging' people.
I wish him well...
Matt
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He could put a 'please do not obstruct - access required at all times' notice on the garage doors perhaps? This at least set the context for any 'conversation' he might have with the less obliging...
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But if it's a lie, then he won't gain much respect for his notice, however legal or non legal his claim may be.
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Best way i police my bit of street is to box anyone in who dares to park on "my bit" of lane,they never return after it takes me ages to find the keys to all my vehicles ;-o
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Why not buy a fifty quid banger out of the paper and park it in 'his space'. If it never moves and he doesn't know who left it there it'll drive him nuts.
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Simon - If I was a bit more cheeky by nature, I'd do that!
Of course I would ensure the 50 quid banger was parked forward enough so he could open the shed doors to get the bicycles/pushchairs out - fair play. But he wouldn't be able to secure 'his' car park - priceless :-)
Cheers,
Matt
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Why not buy a fifty quid banger out of the paper and park it in 'his space'. If it never moves and he doesn't know who left it there it'll drive him nuts.
...and when he phones the council to report it as an abandoned vehicles who's details are going to be registered on it?
I would never buy a house without it having adequate parking space. Should be law that without a parking space you are only able to get a Kei car, like it is in Japan.
Edited by carl_a on 28/10/2007 at 15:31
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Simple, as long its taxed and insured register it to a PO box number and away.
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I could even go out once a year when they're away holiday, to see if it still starts ;-)
Taxed - yes. Insured - yes. Wheels going round - no.
This has got me thinking....
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Simple as long its taxed and insured register it to a PO box number and away.
This is getting to be a very expensive old banger just to upset a neighbour... better idea why not just let the neighbour keep the space and stop all the grief.
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We're already parking elsewhere carl_a, he's welcome to it frankly.
Just a bit of harmless banter...
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I love these "Access required at all times - Do not obstruct " notices when the notice is faded and falling to pieces, the doors are hanging off their hinges, and only propped up by the mounds of litter and abandoned trolleys.
It's sort of symbolic really - we may have lost the Empire, but I can still cling on to my own little bit of England.
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You've obviously found my house :-(
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Although we've analysed this to death (and I've stopped parking there), I thought you'd be interested in the feedback from the local council. I pretty much reflects what was said earlier:
They said as there are no parking restrictions in this road, they do not have authority to stop someone parking in front of the garage/shed over the road.
So I guess it would just be a police issue of obstruction.
Thanks to all for the comments.
Matt
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"So I guess it would just be a police issue of obstruction."
And despite our valiant efforts to get it nailed down where in law it says that unless there is a car on the propery prevented from leaving, it is ok to park infront of a garage/driveway, and how the laws of obstruction relate to that (thus do they make it redundant or not) We have yet again failed to get these questions answered.
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I'm afraid so horatio.
The council really didn't want to get involved on this one - i.e. not our problem.
It will be a difficult one for him to constantly police, but good luck to him.
Cheers,
Matt
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