Girlfriends MINI cooper is coming up to 4 years old and I have had to top the coolant up a couple of times in the 11 months we have had it. Recently its dropped from max to min much quicker and the coolant now looks a bit like a chocolate milkshake in the filler bottle.
Oil is clean and hasn't really dropped since the last service (8 months ago). Its going into MINI next week, however the warranty runs out on the 25th Sept and dont want a big bill..
It runs fine, doesn't overheat and performance is ok - initial thoughts were head gasket, but never heard of it being a problem on this engine before..
Car had done 56,000 and got full MINI service history.
Any ideas what might be the cause?
s
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It does sound very head gasket like to me from the symptoms that you have described.
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Get it to the dealer pronto !
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i see this if
a....headgasket is going gone or been gone in the past
b...antifreeze not in the mix and its an older car
c,,water pump breaking up and grease in the seal has mixed in the water
ab or c doesnt matter it needs looking at before warranty out
Im sure that engine does have some problems as it a pretty old design
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Thanks for the replys
Out of interest, what colour should the anti-freeze be in a MINI..Yellow or Red? Wondering if it could be something as simple as rust stained water from the radiator disintegrating, although I would have hoped that it would have lasted more than 4 years. Cannot find the coolant change interval either in the manual - assuming its 60K or 5 yrs so it may need changing.
Whatever the problem its going in to the dealer anyway - there is a rumble from a back wheel, assuming common wheel bearing problem and the windows keep dropping when they feel like it!!
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Standard Mini coolant is ethylene glycol with a blue/green dye. It looks almost clear if you draw some out of the tank.
There have been on-going problems with Mini cooling systems and corrosion. I doubt it is HGF, more likely corrosion of the internal engine components which is discolouring the coolant. At the very least get it changed.
To check that its not oil (from HGF) then roll up some kitchen tissue and dip it into the tank. If you get a wet patch with an 'oily line' at the top then -- its oil in there! I doubt that will be the problem though.
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Do 'modern' cars still have trouble whereby after a few years the coolant turns into a murky sludge type colour? I thought in this day and age with modern coolants and long life varieties they should stay a nice looking colour for much longer than four years.
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i agree simon but not every car is cradled from birth to crusher,most cars have a story to tell somewhere if they could car-speak
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Coolant the colour of chocolate?!?!?
Problem?
Oooooh yes!
The coolant system, by all accounts is a closed loop system. When initially filled there will always be dissolved oxygen in the mixture and minimal corrosion will take place. The corrosion inhibitors will/should take care of the rest. I've never owned a car where the coolant has changed from the blue/green colour.
If you can ascertain that no oil is present then you have a leak in the system somewhere where air can get in to supply the corrosion site with more oxygen. It is only steel/iron that will generally give you the brown discolouration.
You need to check the coolant system whereever you have a join/joint. There will be traces of 'crusty bits' that will indicate that fluid has leaked out.
It is the same effect as in your household central heating system...
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Just to give an update on this...
Eventually got it to MINI today and they found the radiator leaking one one of the bottom corners -replaced and coolant looking as it should again.
Have to say im a bit surprised that the radiator was rusting and leaking at only 4 years old, however couldnt fault the service from the dealership - it even came back valeted and the oil topped up which has saved me a job!
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Good news then, did the car have its specified coolant changes ?
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I assume so, its been dealer serviced since new under the TLC package - which is still running until 80K - (now on 56K). Does TLC cover coolant changes?
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Yes - I believe so from memory of SWMBO's MINI...
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coolant change 10 years on a Mondy!- many years nowadays with long life coolants, but I change sooner. Always use distilled water too, but I am a bit OTT with maintenance, prevention better than cure
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BMW service specs call for a coolant change every other year. I'm sure the MINI was the same.
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Have you tried tasting it bbroomlea? Many people would be tempted.
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Have you tried tasting it bbroomlea? Many people would be tempted.
Maybe someone's been watching too many Skoda adverts - you'll be telling us the oil looks like golden syrup next ;-)
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I don't think the leaking radiator was anything to do with the coolant discolouration. The radiator is made from aluminium and plastic and corrosion of the aluminium doesn't discolour the coolant. The coolant is now the 'correct' colour because it has been changed during the radiator swap. The discolouration is due to some other factor and will probably return in due course.
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I'm with Aprilia on this. My coolant stayed the normal colour when I'd leakages on my old BMC cars IIRC. Think there was always a bit of rusty stuff in the bottom of the coolant system.
Current Passat's coolant stayed clean, well it would when I was topping it up to cope with a leak.
Did you have to top up the coolant and did you use the proper stuff? Using plain water might have caused corrosion.
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Ford state a 10 year life for coolant, Renault 5 years though I changed our Clio's coolant at 8 years for the first time and it looked like new, put Halfords 5 year life stuff in it.
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Sorry clicked, post too soon.
Meant to say perhaps a previous owner had filled the coolant system with water only and that has allowed internal corrosion, if so, and it has been flushed it should be OK now with new coolant.
Otherwise I agree that there must be an underlying cause for the contamination, unless the dealer says it was water only in there before it warrants futher investigation IMO.
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A garage will have or you can buy a testing kit to see if combustion products are in the water system.
These work a treat to say if a head gasket has gone. So if the water discolours again........
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Further update....
We have been on holiday and the car hasnt really been used for the last 10 days or so - only doing 50 miles. Checked under the bonnet yesterday as there was a rattling noise coming from somewhere and the coolant is back on minimum and the water has gone back to a mucky brown.
Back to the garage next wednesday, got a new radiator but its looking unlikely that was the cause..
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Yes, please my post about half-a-dozen replies up.
In your original query you state that warranty runs out of 25th Sept. I would call the dealers and get them to note the problem and the date of your call on their database. Otherwise you're likely to be hit with a big out-of-warranty repair bill - from what I've seen the Mini dealer like the charge!
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I ensured there will be no charge to rectify, with this being an existing problem that they havent fixed - although will be getting that in writing before I leave when its dropped of! I will mention your reply above re: the radiator being aluminium etc.
I can see this being a long drawn out problem as I have little confidence in the dealer - especially as it comes back from there with a noise it didnt have before and is clearly audible both inside and outside the car, test driven but not picked up!!
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Just to update on this:
MINI have assessed the car today and confirmed Head Gasket failure - potentially head issues and no doubt 1000s to put righ.
They are now not prepared to fix this under warranty conditions as that ran out last week, despite the car going in over a month before the warranty ended for the exact same problem - of which they never rectified, and us reporting the reccurring fault in warranty - their workshop full and couldn't accommodate before it expired.
Case is going to good will dept? tomorrow at BMW, however dealer not confident they will give 100% payment which is scandalous.
Cannot believe that a 57,000, 4 year old car with a full dealer history (and MINI Cherished), that was in warranty and a fault not fixed is now lying on our shoulders to contribute....
Regardless of what happens the MINI is going as this is the last in a long list of problems!!
s
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Dont think they can refuse if serviced to schedule and problem reported before expiry of warranty.
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>>Case is going to good will dept? tomorrow at BMW however dealer not confident they will give 100% payment which is scandalous.
The dealer is out of order. Please don?t let him get away with this.
If it helps I can relate a similar tale.
I had a (different) problem with a BMW and was informed by my dealer that ?BMW won?t pay for the claim? and the dealer was happy to leave it at that and expected me to authorise them to complete the work at my expense.
I refused to accept this because like you a had a valid claim.
My dealer gave me the tel.number of BMW Warranty and I called them direct. All the ?facts? were logged onto their database by the Reg. No so it was easy to enter into a discussion.
Initially the person again refused the claim, I argued & eventually he offered 50%. I countered that if they offered 50% then they must be accepting that there WAS some liability so why not 75% or 90% etc. He then told me the ?system? only offered him a choice of ?reject? ?50%? or 100%. Eventually he did agree the full 100% but interestingly said that the in initial reason for rejecting was that the dealer had submitted a cost ? but with a caveat that the cost could rise depending on what they found when stripping the cyl head. He said that they were under instruction to refuse any such claims as BMW expected the dealer ? as experts ? to quote a firm and fixed price claim. The dealer had simply been lazy and relayed this back to me as a ?BMW won?t pay? rather than expose himself to a situation where they might have underquoted and lost money on the job. A couple more calls between BMW, dealer and myself eventually resulted in the dealer setting a fixed price claim & completing the work.
Sorry for the long post/ramble ? but I now know that:
1) If the dealer tells you BMW won?t pay, or will only pay 50% - it?s possible and worthwhile to call them yourself.
2) The person you speak to at BMW has the authority to decide the claim so keep arguing. That person only has the ?facts? as presented by the dealer.
3) There might be a reason for the reject, that the dealer hasn?t told you. In your case I doubt if they revealed to BMW that on the pervious occaision they failed to diagnose the HGF. More likely that the first claim is logged as a leaking rad. And that they?ve now logged this HGF a new claim but outside of the warranty period.
Hence the rejection.
From my experience above it would appear that the dealer can?t go back to BMW and get any more money against the original (rad.) problem as this is now ?closed out? by BMW. Rather than admit to BMW they failed to spot the HGF they are simply presenting it as a new problem & and will hope to squeeze you to pay up. It would by my guess that if the full facts were available to BMW they would insist the dealer meet the cost.
4) So call yourself and don?t accept anything less than 100% of the cost from either BMW or the dealer. You DO have a valid claim.
Jacks
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If i can just say jacks? a brilliant and concise post
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concise post
Sorry!
hopefully the OP will be along & tell us he has got a result.
It would really upset me for the rest of the day if I found out the dealer had made him pay.
The clue was in the "dealer not confident BMW will pay up 100%" - ie the dealer's softening up the punter ready for the "bad news from BMW" !!
J
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Hi Jacks
Thanks for taking the time to respond so in depth. The claim is still with BMW and we wont find out what is happeing until tomorrow at the earliest. In no uncertain terms the dealer is aware that I am not paying any contribution to the repair as the problem wasnt rectified in early September.
As you say, the dealer is saying that initially it was diagnosed with a leaky radiator and as such this is a new problem. What they are not grasping is that they never fixed the problem with the radiator and therefore what was the original coolant problem is still there. They even said that the head gasket must have gone since the radiator has been fitted. The car had done no more than 50 miles before I checked the coolant and reported the problem back to the dealer.
I have BMW customer service number and will call them if I dont get a satisfactory response from the dealer in the next couple of days.
I am more than put off by the whole service I have received, they havent even provided a courtesy car as of yet, MINI are booked but BMW have a spare car that they wont loan out because the car is no longer under warranty - how nice!!
I will keep you updated on how we get on..
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In my experience, BMW are very good with goodwill claims.
Last year I was informed that the reason my car made a slight tink noise as it pulled off was becuase the Propshaft was 'worn'. This required replacement of the whole propshaft, and BMW had rejected it under the warranty as its classed as wear and tear.
I put up with it for a few months before thinking that actually no, it's not wear and tear at all. So, I wrote to BMW - by this time the warranty had expired and the car was on some 140,000 miles.
Result?
Brand new propshaft, 100% contribution, no quibble.
Of course it later turned out that this was yet another small, common issue that an indy can fix for a couple of hundred quid by replacing the centre bearing but hey, got a new prop out of it.
SNIPQUOTE!
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Anymore on this? I'm interested to hear the outcome.
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Sorry, forgot to update on this..
BMW refused the dealer permission to strip the car to find out the definate cause. I contacted BMW customer services, which I must say was one of the worst experiences I have had with a call centre.
Their justification was that they were not prepared to give a good will to find out what the problem is, only give good will after the full diagnosis was found. The dealer told us that it would cost us £600 to take the head off and diagnose the full problem and then we can go from there with a good will claim.
Naturally I rejected this as I didnt want to be liable with the cost of anything to repair a car that has failed in warranty and the dealer not correcting the initial problem. After a face to face meeting with the serivce manager, which went like this:
"Did this car come in last week because I asked the workshop to double check diagnosis of HGF as I thought they may have made a wrong prognosis" He examined the car and wasnt convinced the head gasket was at fault and thought that the second mechanic had put 2 and 2 together and made 5 by looking at the history (ie radiator).
We agreed to run the car for a week, get the coolant flushed (free of charge) and then go from there. So far, coolant is a bit mucky (but only in the header tank) - the radiator cap on the right of the engine has blue anti-freeze.
I have logged a complaint as if I had not contested this, the car would have been stripped and no doubt I would have had to pay a significant contribution to something that isnt broken. Many people would have allowed the engine to be stripped and wrote a cheque a week later for a 4 figure bill.
Something isnt right so we are still getting rid of the car, MOT due next week so hopefully it will be ok for that.
Will keep everyone posted with any more updates on problem/dealer
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Sister's 3 + 1 month old Mini lost all the coolant from the tank. Plastic tank competely empty. I suspected that the radiator thermostat had failed to cut in the cooling fan, and the dealer confirmed this. Thermostat, coolant, and tank were replaced. Cost £280, which seems high. Any chance of a contribution from BMW? I think not.
This car has only done 15,000 miles, and has already had clutch and front tyres changed. The clutch was done under warranty, about 2 months ago. Surely the tyres should last longer. (My sister is over 70 years old! Hardly a tear-about)
By way of comparison, I have a 21 year old Honda Integra which has never had the coolant changed, and only once topped up. The coolant is still in original condition.
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the lady opposite me, owns a 03 reg mini cooper, and in the last 12 months has had gearbox repairs and abs module replaced. the abs pcb was a four figure sum....ouch..
the cars got under 50k on the clock with a full dealer history...
at least the original minis that rusted faster than a 70s fiat where only loose change to fix things...i did hear that when they did the slight face lift in what....07 they updated the gearbox.
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Exactly the same with my wifes Mini. Bought Cherished Mini 29,000 miles at 3yrs old last May.
September, plastic tank competely empty. I was told that the thermostat and housing were replaced. All ok for about 2 weeks and then coolant gone again, booked in again and was told there was a loose pipe clip. At least car was valeted. Am keeping a close watch as the warranty lasts until May.
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Thats some pretty shabby treatment from BMW considering their dealer failed to diagnose the fault correctly.
Time to lodge a Small Claim against BMW? Seems to be the only way to get decent service these days. I've used this 3 times in the last 5 years and won every time, used it as a threat twice and won both of those as well. And I would say I'm not the litigious type either!
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