It looks as if the candidate to replace the B-class will be one of:
VW Golf estate 2.0 TDI
Skoda Octavia estate 2.0 TDI
Toyota Verso SR D4D
This may well end up the order, with the Golf the winner.
I realise that if I get a Verso, TVM will never speak to me again - in its defence it's a lot better to drive than other MPVs. We don't need the seven seats, but there is a flat floor with all rear seats down. Good to drive with minimal turbo lag; just a touch wallowy round corners, probably inevitable given the height of the car. Poor rear visibility, and I'd have to cut off part of the radio aerial to get it into the garage. Excellent local dealer - Octagon of Bracknell.
VW and Skoda, unsurprisingly, similar to drive, and both good fun in terms of acceleration, ride and handling. No obvious quirks to infuriate, and both felt 'right' from the start. The Golf estate has come in cheaper than I expected: the estate is available in SE trim unlike the hatch, where you have to have GT Sport to get the 140 TDI engine. If you add parking sensors it's just on £18,000, the same as the Octavia Elegance estate, and £1,000 cheaper than the Golf GT Sport hatch.
I think, given that the Golf should hold its value better then the Octavia, that I'll get a better PCP deal on the Golf. I'll keep you posted.
Eliminated -
BMW 320d Touring - much more expensive than the above (even the standard ES with minimum equipment), and although I tried two examples I still couldn't get on with the gearchange (notchy) and the driving position (to depress the clutch fully I have to sit too near the wheel). And the seat height adjuster and the indicators are irritations although they wouldn't have been deal-breakers.
Volvo V50 2.0D - I couldn't see what that could do at £21,000 that a VW or Skoda couldn't do for £18,000.
Audi A3 2.0 TDI - same comment as the Volvo and too small for out needs. (A4 is too expensive, and not discounted as much as a BMW which might have put it within reach .)
SEAT Altea XL 2.0 TDI - similar to VW and Skoda but rear seats don't fold flat and you can't see much out of the back.
Saab 9-3 1.9 TiD estate - very good ride and comfortable; reasonable performance and handling, but far too much turbo lag and some annoying quirks inside. I didn't much fancy doing 20,000 miles a year behind that cliff-face of a dashboard either - which had a chrome surround that reflected as a bright oblique line in the windscreen.
Ford C-Max 2.0 TDCI - nice to drive apart from having nowhere to put your left foot. Seat folding not brilliant and it won't hold its value very well.
Nissan Qashqai - no opportunity to try one as the Reading dealer is changing hands and has cleared its stock. I wasn't attracted enough by looks or specification to go looking further afield.
Glad to receive comments / opinions - even if not, I hope this may help others looking in the same area.
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My order of preference
1/ Golf
2/ Skoda
3/ the whatsit? thingy? whats it called?
DO NOT cut the tip off the aerial of the whatsit. It MAY be double coiled internally, and you could shorten the electrical length and screw up your Medium wave reception.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Golf of the three, the Verso has the other two beat but for being stodgy to drive so I would take the Golf.
>>Volvo V50 2.0D - I couldn't see what that could do at £21,000 that a VW or Skoda couldn't do for £18,000.>>
Vastly better refinement and better looks, also better residuals I would guess, lease costs quite good last time I looked.
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Have you considered buying a used nice car for £18k rather than a brand new white good/hire car?
Used Audi, used Jag, etc?
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Yes I have Michael - a colleague spent the same two years ago on a used Mercedes C320 as I did on my B-class and we have discussed it. Both of us were right - the difference being that he does about 6,000 miles a year and I do 20,000, much of that being lecturing where a reliable car is essential.
Not that a used C-class isn't reliable, but with any second-hand car there is bound to be a greater risk, and of course you don't have the 3-year warranty to protect you from nasty surprises.
Fair point though - you may still disagree but you can perhaps see where I'm coming from. I've bought new since 1971, run them in carefully, and touch wood have had little trouble with cars even over high mileages.
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I didn't know that the Golf estate had even been launched yet..!
Did you compare its space and price with the Golf Plus?
VW aside, I thought most car-minded people recognised the Octavia as being better than a Golf these days?
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I didn't know that the Golf estate had even been launched yet..!
www.vw.co.uk/new_cars/golf_estate>>
Did you compare its space and price with the Golf Plus?
The Golf Plus is a complete waste of space.
VW aside I thought most car-minded people recognised the Octavia as being better than a Golf these days?
Its not better, its better value for money
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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"It's not better, it's better value for money "
Exactly what I thought until the Golf estate (launched on 10 August) prices came out. VW isn't known for value for money, but all I can say is that the Golf estate SE is a smilar price to the Octavia Elegance estate, with little difference in equipment.
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...Golf estate SE is a smilar price to the Octavia Elegance estate with little difference in equipment.
But surely the Skoda has more loadspace and is generally roomier - still better value for money if it's the same price.
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"But surely the Skoda has more loadspace and is generally roomier - still better value for money if it's the same price."
About 4 % more - 1620 litres (Skoda) playing 1550 (VW). I think the Mark V estate is quite a bit longer than the Mark IV, and about the same length as an Octavia estate (4.5 metres).
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Get one before there's a MVI Golf next near. They're redoing it to make it cheaper to build! Not to make it better. All about profit.
I still like VAG group cars. Despite issues with new VWs I have had. Currently not an option if I stay in the company car scheme.... run by Leaseplan.... who are owned by VW. They were anyway. But no VAG cars on our scheme (there is a reason - discounts negotiated by us and not them).
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According to the First Drive report in Car, the Estate will remain a MKV:
see ->carmagazine.co.uk/first_drive.php?sid=704&page=2
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Have you considered buying a used nice car for £18k rather than a brand new white good/hire car? Used Audi used Jag etc?
This would be my way as well. As for reliability, well if you want to convince yourself that a secondhand car will be less reliable then fine. But most manufacturers extend warranties beyond 3 years these days. And you'd get a far nicer car to do 20K a year in than any of these!
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Second hand for £18,000gets you a decent Merc or Volvo estate. as for warranty you can buy one for a few hundred £s and then you won't have to bear the new car depreciation. Keep a Merc service book up to date (dosen't need to be a main dealer) and the bodywork is guaranteed.
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>>well if you want to convince yourself that a secondhand car will be less reliable then fine.
Quite. Often new cars are the worst, with teething problems.
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Driven a Verso - slightly Wallowly, Visibility terrible, Dash layout too cluttered for me.
Compared to a Skoda, feels more Van like in terms of parking and road presence.
Skoda / Golf - only driven the Skoda Hatch, but only comments were noisy idle and start up but otherwise fine.
I believe the Skoda has more room than the Golf and where I live, Skodas are cheaper to service than Golfs. OK Golf maybe cheaper, but what is the carrying capacity like between the two (if it is important). Re-Residuals my impression that VW residuals are slowly falling and Skodas are improving..perhaps check trends for VW/Skoda residuals in Motoring mags.
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Re-Residuals my impression that VW residuals are slowly falling
I've noticed this as well with mkV Golf 2.0 TDI's compared with the mkIV 1.9 TDI 130's we were looking at a year ago (my mother-in-law is after a mkV now).
VW dealers were asking around £12,500 for an average mileage 3 yr old mkIV GT TDI 130 when she bought hers, but £11,000-£11,500 is enough to get a 2004 mkV with similar miles from a VW dealer this year, or well under £11k from an indie.
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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Avant - you will no doubt have read my review of my wife's Octy II 2.0 TDi in L+K spec.
If there were no difference in spec I think like you I would go for the Golf for the better residuals/cheaper PCP
However, I've just had a look at the VW website and there are some significant spec differences between the two cars - the Golf doesn't have climate control as standard (600) or rear parking sensors, both of which I would have thought were pretty essential.
The L+K spec has been improved even more since we got ours, which is a good job, as at the time ESP was not standard on the Octy.
So I think it comes down to the spec, I would check carefully which suits you best, once you start loading up with options, it will make it much more expensive on the PCP I would guess.
If you want any more impressions of our octavia, which now has 15k on the clock at 9 months old, just ask.
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Just to update for anyone interested - I've gone for a Golf estate 2.0 TDI SE. I went in on the day it was launched and they found one with parking sensors in the system - presumably one of the first batch imported.
I fancied a panoramic sunroof but factory order is apparently a 4 to 5 month wait. I don't think I can stand the B-class that much longer, and this one is going to be quite a bit cheaper per month. It should be ready next Wednesday.
It was a very near thing between this and the Octavia Elegance estate. I can do without climate control - nothing wrong with aircon that you can control yourself - and with a small amount extra for rear parking sensors this was all I needed. You can get a better PCP deal on a Golf than an Octavia as the market (not very logically as they are much the same car) values the Golf higher when used, and as a new model it should be fairly rare at 2 to 3 years old.
Also ESP isn't standard on the Elegance. I think that something of this nature should be standard across a range if it's offered one one version - it isn't a cosmetic extra.
Where I may be wrong is not spending the extra on a DSG transmission. For now, all I can say is that the manual gearchange on the Golf (and the Octavia) is excellent, and my impression was of less turbo lag with this than with a DSG.
On verra.
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Also ESP isn't standard on the Elegance. I think that something of this nature should be standard across a range if it's offered one one version - it isn't a cosmetic extra.
That's the one good thing about the B-class, indeed all Mercs. ESP standard across the range, which is how it should be (as long as it can be fully switched off for those od occasions).
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Good choice A, Enjoy the new wagon. All the cars I have used on the new golf platform have good ride/comfort/handling compromise.
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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Thanks, AE - good luck with yours too.
Re ESP - according to my brochure ESP is standard on all Golfs too. The B-class has many good features - indeed with a decent engine and, as I got with mine, a good PCP deal to offset the high list price, it could be one of the class leaders. Mine has been totally reliable. I'm simply in search of some driving enjoyment for the same or less monthly outlay, and here's hoping that I'm getting it.
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Test drove a new Octavia vRS Estate today (Well, got to find something to do whilst i twiddle my thumbs waiting for the term to start).
Reasonably quick, reasonably well built but very light steering and horrible windnoise at 70mph.
But, yea, acceptable I guess. I'd have been proper miffed had I spend £20k on it, though.
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