Long story behind this one! My sister forgot to put the oil filler cap back on her 1996 GM 1.7 diesel, and consequently the oil drained out and the car overheated and stopped on a steep hill. Trailered home where I refilled with fresh oil and surprisingly, it ran fine, although a bit tappetty.
I revved it a bit the next day and there was a loud bang and it stopped again. After making sure the timing belt was still in one piece and taking off the rocker box cover, I discovered part of one of the valves broken off. It's the bit that has the flat edge that is pushed down by the cam. It's broken off from a round thing that presumably sat on top of the valve. Apart from that, everything inside there looks in one piece. The metal is clean and covered in oil, and there's no swarf. At the moment, it won't quite start which I suppose isn't that surprising considering one cylinder isn't working.
Photo of broken bit:
www.pocketgamer.org/dave/broken-rocker-thing.jpg
Is it worth attempting to salvage the engine - and if so, what needs changing to get it going again?
Much obliged,
David.
|
David
Forget it; if it ran out of oil and stopped - fit another engine. There's no point in throwing money at a ruin.
[Wasn't the oil light working?]
|
|
My sister can't remember. However, the oil pressure light went out straight away when I refilled it with oil.
|
|
|
Forget it; if it ran out of oil and stopped - fit another engine. There's no point in throwing money at a ruin.
Yup the part broke becuase it was under strain and stress. That means lots of other bits are in a similar state as well.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
|
|
|
|
|
when my '93 1.4 petrol Astra's cam belt tensioner seized all but two of these broke on it - I scrapped the car after finding out how much it would cost to fix.
|
|
Turbo could be damaged as well as it won't have been lubricated.
|
Yup, I agree. Fit a replacement engine. Even if you change this part, the other seven could go at any time, and that's without the possible turbo damaged mentioned by Xileno. A turbo spins at around 100,000 RPM - lack of oil to the bearings for even a split second won't have done it any good at all to put it mildly.
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
|
Before fitting a replacement engine, try replacing the cam follower that has broken.
I think other posters here are being unduly alarmist. That said, if I were you I wd try to ease yourself out of responsibility for yr sister's motoring. She sounds worse than my daughter.
Didn't she smell the oil when it was blowing out of the cambox and presumably getting on the exhaust?
|
|
Make sure the valve under the broken follower hasn't seized in its guide.
|
Well, thinking on it, the big end was also going so I wonder if there was just a little bit too much slack and it let the piston hit a valve? I'll try replacing the cam follower since it appears to just rest in position - does anyone know where I might be able to get one and how much it will cost?
To be honest, the engine sounded and ran well after the incident, it was several days later it went kersplat.
Thanks to all for advice - if it runs then it's off to the auction anyway. :-)
|
"I revved it a bit the next day and there was a loud bang..."
"... it was several days later it went kersplat."
Some discrepancy here I feel.
"..the big end was also going..."
What else aren't we being told?
|
Yeah, sorry - it was two weeks ago and I've been away since, and have a feeble memory for times anyway. :)
I didn't know the big end was iffy until my dad told me this afternoon and I passed the information on to you.
HTH,
David.
|
With [unsurprisingly] the big ends shot as well; that about seals it.
It was likely a seized cam that stopped and broke the rocker anyway; so ditch that can of worms and get another engine - if the car's worth it?
|
seized cam that stopped and broke the rocker
Eh? That would have stripped the cambelt. Seized valve maybe.
|
Lud
They often shear the keyway and then the cam timing slips.
|
Timing belt is in good nick, there's no obvious sign of damage indicating that it's slipped. I did wonder whether the timing was out, but the the rocker has broken off cylinder one only; surely there would be equivalent damage to number four as well if the timing was iffy?
|
Timing belt is in good nick there's no obvious sign of damage indicating that it's slipped. I did wonder whether the timing was out but the the rocker has broken off cylinder one only; surely there would be equivalent damage to number four as well if the timing was iffy?
cylinder one and four are out of synch by 360 deg so if cyl inder one is damaged thru contact with piston crown/valve/rocker then u would probably get away with damage to cylinder four as its likely to be on the power stroke ie valves closed
|
|
Ah. I was under the impression that cylinders 1+4 are in sync. I'm afraid I can't see how two cylinders could be out of sync by 360 degrees; surely that places them perfectly in sync? Is it possible to replace the rocker arm without stripping the engine any further?
|
If you want to fit a new rocker;
1) find the shoe piece that fits between the rocker and the valve tip - it may still be sitting on top of the spring, but probably not.
2) Turn the engine over so the cam lobe points towards the back of the engine.
3) Using some pliers, pull out the hydraulic lifter - the part with a spherical tip.
4) Pad the jaws of a vice, and slowly compress the hydraulic lifter - you'll find oil comes out. Don't apply too much force, just enough to keep the oil coming out
5) repeat step 4 until the lifter is completely empty, and can be compressed easily by hand
6) put the shoe piece and lifter in place, and slide the new rocker into place, compressing the lifter to allow it to fit.
7) proceed and find the next fault! You might want to begin by checking the valve timing - *before* you try and start it.
Number_Cruncher
|
In step 2, I've assumed an inlet valve - if it's an exhaust, point the cam towards the front.
Number_Cruncher
|
If its a 1996 car unless it is in exceptional condition I wouldn't consider fitting a new engine as the cost of a secondhand unit on it's own is probably about as much as the car is worth without taking into account the time required to do the swap.
I had a 1999 Isuzu Diesel engined Astra and the engine died on that. Couldn't get a s/h engine for love nor money so sold it for spares/repairs and lost £2000 in three months. Wont make that mistake again
|
Yay - cheers for that Number Cruncher, the hydraulic thing came out a treat and it looks like all I need to do is slip the new rocker into place. I'll whip out the glowplugs so I can turn the engine over by hand to make sure the pistons aren't squishing things that they shouldn't be.
Only painful part in this was the price of the rocker, but at £15 I suppose it's worth the risk that the engine is well and truly knackered.
|
|
Oh yes - apologies to milkyjoe! It's taken me all day to realise that something can be out of sync by 360 degrees in a four stroke cycle. My ol' maths tutor will be spinning in his grave.
|
|
