Air-con will lose a small amount of refrigerant each year - a few percent. I know that air-con companies say that you should "service" the system annually, but my motto with air-con is that 'if it works, don't fix it'. A new car should last 5 years before it needs a regas I reckon - if not, then there is a leak.
You may find that the warranty excludes air-con refrigerant - but it should cover the leak.
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Aircon seals and some pipes allow a little gas to escape. Ring the dealer by all means but they will not top it up under warranty. There are three common scenarios
1/ Manufacturing defect (chafed pipe, broken joint, corroded part etc) where gas escapes.
Covered under warranty
2/ Natural loss of gas
Not covered under warranty
3/ Part damaged (stone in condensor etc)
Not covered under warranty, insurance job if expensive.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Does the aircon outlet air temperature depend on the inlet air temperature, i.e. is it perhaps normal for the outlet air temperature to be higher when the ambient air temperature is higher?
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L\'escargot.
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No escargot. The point of A/C is that it controls the temperture of the air inside regardless of external air temp. You can have 20 degrees inside whether it's -20 or 40 outside. But to me the main benefit is that it dries the air, banishing misting up to the dim and distant past.
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Does the aircon outlet air temperature depend on the inlet air temperature ..
obviously yes. it will have to work a lot harder to maintain 20 celsius inside when the outside is 30 celcius compared to when the outside is 25 celsius. if the system is not fully efficient, it will find it hard work in hotter temperatures.
in my opinion, boxterboy is wrong in his reply to l'escargot and also in his statement in his initial post at the top:When was it last re-gassed? Should be done every 2 years IIRC.
re-gassing is only necessary as aprilia says after 5 years or more if you have looked after your system properly. "properly" means running a.c./c.c. regardless of winter of summer. you need to keep the seals "oiled" and prevent them drying out - which is what happens if you shut down a.c./c.c. during cooler months.
even then, as tvm says, over time the slight escape of gas will mean that in 5 years or more, the system may need regassing (one of my long-term cars has not needed regassing yet even after 8 years and 140k miles).
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Yesterday (nudging 30C) and on the recirculate mode, i.e. cooling down the already cooled air, it took about 25 minutes to get fairly cool but IMO not cool enough. I've sent an email to the dealer.
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I was given a lift in a new Audi something or other (I'm not that interested) and it was blowing noticeably nice cool air within 300 yards of a start having sat all day. It was hot outside and I was impressed!
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I was given a lift in a new Audi
I think ?new? is probably important there - my daughter?s new 1.1 Colt blows freezing cold air within literally a few seconds of start-up. And it shifts air at quite high volume (so it must have significant cooling capacity) through the face vents even on fan speed no. 1, so the effect is almost shocking!
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My 53 reg Volvo S80 blows nice and cold when it's hot outside within a minute. So the leather seats don't seem too bad. It does run all the time, as it's climate control.
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Yesterday (nudging 30C) and on the recirculate mode i.e. cooling down the already cooled air it took about 25 minutes to get fairly cool but IMO not cool enough.
Thats a bit of a dodgy and inconclusive measure. To really nail a dealer you need to measure the output at the vent and provide the drop from ambient. With the outside ambient at 28C, the Touran is able to kick out cold air at 8c at the vents. That is it knocks 20c off the ambient. Someone wrote on here I think that dealers consider anything over a 15c drop to be ok.
Do you have climate? the climate control electronics could be up the pole.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Do you have climate?
Also, in my experience, Climate tends to take the edge off the 'coldness' unless it's set at minumum temp.
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If you take it to your dealer and they refuse to do it under warranty make sure you look around for how much it will cost you to get it re-gassed elsewhere.
After six years my refrigerant had run out and the air-con could only just cope at about 25oC outside.
I asked SEAT themselves how much they would charge and what it would involve. The technician pointed to a machine and said 'we plug that in, leave it an hour and it's all done sir'. They quoted £115.
I went round the corner and asked a reputable independent how much they charge. Whilst showing me an identical machine (from what I could tell), he quoted me £58 inc VAT and also said it would take an hour.
That was a year ago and mine's been blowing cool ever since.
I've seen that Kwik Fit offer a similar service at £45 ish now but am not sure on its effectiveness.
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I've seen that Kwik Fit offer a similar service at £45 ish now but am not sure on its effectiveness.
I've seen several comments about the KF service and it sounds just the same as the others you describe - they connect a machine to the car, select the vehicle in a menu, and the machine does it's stuff. You don't pay if it isn't 10% colder at the face vents (although I guess if there's a leak then the effect will wear off vey quickly).
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I straightforward re-gas is all well and good if the vehicle is free of leaks and there are no other problems (i.e. climate ECU and sensors are working OK). If there are additional problems then things could turn ugly very quickly. In my experience aircon faults are VERY dear to sort out.
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I got a speedy reply, the edited highlights of which are as follows:
"If the climate control has a manufacturing defect with it & we look at it
before 01/09/2007 we can work on it under warranty.
Audi do recommend the air conditioning has a service every 2 years, this
re-gases, deodorises & disinfects the system as well. There is a £100 INC
charge for carrying out an air conditioning service. What can happen is the
gas can go inert & just needs to be replaced, if this is the case it will
not be covered under warranty.
The best thing to do is book in for an air conditioning check, but we might
be in contact to say the vehicle just needed a service."
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I've worked with R134A (most likely the refrigerant used) since about 1993. I have a cooler in the garage which we use to keep beer/wine etc cool when we have barbeques which was made about then. The gas in that hasn't gone inert yet!
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"hat can happen is the
gas can go inert & just needs to be replaced, if this is the case it will
not be covered under warranty"
What utter rubbish.
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I've seen that Kwik Fit offer a similar service at £45 ish now but am not sure on its effectiveness.
Recent comments in the link below.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=53007
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R134a does not go inert on the timescale of a vehicle's life, let alone 3 years.
I think you have a minor leak. I would have them vac down and leak-check the system. The gas is not covered by warranty, so you'll have to pay for that, but they should pay for rectification of the leak (unless its caused by accudental damage, which is unlikely otherwise you'd have a gross leak and the system would no longer function at all).
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I should add that a friend of mine had a minor leak on his Sharan whilst under warranty. He had it 'serviced' (regas and some perfume sprayed in the car). A couple of months later it had lost gas again. By this time it was out of warranty and this time the dealer lost no time in diagnoising a leaking evaporator. Since this is located behind the dash the labour cost for repair was VERY high (many £100's). Apparently this is quite common on some VAG models.
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I'm away in France for a week or so, but I'll soon be back and booking it in to the main dealer for some time during August.
We'll see what they say, but for the moment I'm inclined to leave my wallet and credit cards at home for the day. If they sort it out under warranty then fine, otherwise it's £60 - £70 at a specialist for a re-gas.
Whatever happens I'll get to drive around in a nearly new Audi for a day. In the past I've had an A2, several fruity A4s and an A6. Maybe it'll be an A8 this time!
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it dries the air, banishing misting up to the dim and distant past.
I agree that it dries the air, but not all of the moisture removed drains away instantly ~ some tends to hang around in the aircon unit. On a cool morning (without the use of aircon) this residual moisture then re-enters the car and leads to serious misting ~ well it does in mine anyway.
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L\'escargot.
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Be sure to ring a couple of garages for a price - if you're intent on sticking with Audi.
I got a quote of £48 from my local Skoda dealer for a regas, but £130 for exactly the same work from the Skoda dealer I purchased the car from. Well worth ten minutes on the phone!
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A lot of dealers(not necessarily for your make of car) have special offers on at the moment.
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Boxterboy wrote: No escargot. The point of A/C is that it controls the temperture of the air inside regardless of external air temp.
My understanding is that aircon is either on or off or something inbetween.
In order to CONTROL the temperature in the car, you need a feedback system, provided by climate control.
Surely, if there is a leak in the system then the regas should be paid for...
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* UPDATE *
I visited the dealer yesterday and explained again that I considered the poor a/c to be a warranty issue and that they were not to re-gas it at £100 without my instructions. A couple of hours after I dropped off the car they called to say "no fault found" and "do you want us to proceed with £100 re-gas because the pressure is low and Audi recommends an a/c service every 2 years".
I replied that I'd take it to a specialist and pay only £50. That's OK sir, it'll be £58 inc. VAT for the half hour investigation then. I complained and then he offered the re-gas for £100 as quoted but with no charge for the investigation.
I lost my cool and demanded to speak with the boss - who would call me back. Boss doesn't, but same bloke calls back and asks have I ever had anything done to the a/c before. I replied no, because nowhere in the service book or manual does it recommend the 2-year service. I'll call you back he says again.
10 minutes later--- we've just spoken to Audi UK and as a gesture of goodwill we can now give you you the inspection and re-gas for free.
So I got a free a/c check, a free car wash and vacuum, tin of Audi sweets and 3 hours in a 2.0TDi A4 which I didn't particularly enjoy - I'm happier with what I've got.
What a battle. It pays to persist.
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Well done - it's good to feel you get something back from these people.
However they'll have set the "car self destruct" timer to just beyond the end of the warranty.
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And that kipper they left in the air vent is going ot be ripe in - why 7.5 days time.
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< Ex RF, Ex TVM >
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I lost my cool .........
LOL!
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