I am very familiar with FTO's. I've looked after a few for a couple of years now. As I've said before on here, they are one of my favourite sports cars and I always enjoy driving them. The ones I look after have literally been driven 'to hell and back' by their enthusiastic owners and yet they have proven totally solid and reliable. Alternators and idle control valves are the only weak spots - and not expensive to fix.
Mitsubishi tried to keep the weight down, so some of the trim is a bit lightweight, but they seem to hang together.
The driving dynamics are superb and the cars are plenty quick enough - around 180bhp in a lightish car gives good performance and the engines are very smooth.
There are two V6 version. The GR and the GPX (MIVEC). MIVEC is a form of variable valve timing and give the GPX a little more power than the GR, it also sounds a little nicer at high rpm. Everyone says that the MIVEC 'is the one to have' - but these are people that don't know much about FTO's. The GR is 'the one to have' IMHO - it is only slightly less powerful than the GPX, but the engine is vastly more robust. I have heard of a fair number of MIVEC's that have thrown their bearings, but never a GR. In fact GR engines are so robust that secondhand GR engines are worth very little because there is virtually no demand for them.
More important is whether they are manual or Tiptronic. About 90% are Tips, but the manual is a much better drive. In common with all Mitsubishis the manual gearbox can be rather notchy and obstructive - you put in the thinnest GL4 gearbox oil you can find and live with it!
Rust can be a problem on cars that have been in the UK a long time, and they benefit from proper rust injection with a product such as Dinitrol.
A nasty area for rust is the roof support beams (rust bubbles through on the roof) - this seems to affect only dark coloured cars for some reason (black, blue and burgundy).
If anyone needs any more information about these cars then post up your query and I will answer.
If you're interest in buying then I happen to know that one of the major specialists in these cars have a few for sale at the moment - the company is Japco (www.japco.co.uk) - Giles Payne is the man to speak to. He has/had 4-5 and I don't think any are over £4k.
Incidentally, HJ's CBCB is a bit wrong on this car - he mentions 'modifications' being required to run in the UK - this is not the case. These cars will run in the UK straight off the boat from Japan. All you need is SVA work on a car less than 10 years old (mph speedo, rear foglight etc).
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The ones I look after have literally been driven 'to hell and back' by their enthusiastic owners
Literally? Wow!
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>> The ones I look after have literally been >> driven 'to hell and back' by their enthusiastic owners Literally? Wow!
Track days. Every gearshift done at redline. 1/4mile testing at Santa Pod. Holding engine at 6000rpm and then knocking Tip lever from N into D !! You name it, these cars have had it done to them..... And they're still running...
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944 has usable back seats cheapish to fix certainly cheaper than anything Jap if it really breaks!
There's a fair number of FTO specialists out there. Most service parts are now very cheap and major components (engines, transmissions) are available secondhand at modest prices. As a guide, a rebuild on an FTO manual gearbox will cost around £400-500 including R&R. I could get a good secondhand GR V6 engine for £200-400 and a properly rebuilt GPX engine for around £1k. Idle control valves can be had for £89 and brand new (!) alternators have recently become available at around £100. An alternator regulator (the bit that usually fails) is around £30. Very little else goes wrong on them. Possibly rads and heater matrix - but they are pretty cheap.
I think you would be lucky to run a 944 for the same money as an FTO.
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944 is cheap to repair? Compared to a run of the mill Jap? My son tells me that the FTO is a cheapo GTO.
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My son tells me that the FTO is a cheapo GTO.
FTO and GTO are not related in any way whatsoever (other than that they are both manufactured by Mistsubishi). The FTO is a much nicer and more practical car (more reliable, cheaper and easier to fix). The GTO is not as sweet to drive and feels a bit 'clumsy' - it certainly looks the part though!
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Aprilla, thanks very much for relating your experiences on this car, I am even more enthused by it now. My worry about the other big name sports models was the worry of a 4 figure bill for anything, plus I have looked at the build quality of jag XK8 s and certainly the ones I've seen do not compare to the FTO. You could buy half a dozen FTOs for the price of an XK8 in the bracket I'm looking at.........but whats the point, unless you are a badge snob. I just want a fun car.
I can't seem to find one with leather interior, ( The fabric of the seats is a little vauxhall chevette, if you get my meaning!), what model should I be looking for to get this please?
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There are a couple of cloths used for the interior trim, the most common is a kind of 'sackcloth weave' - similar to that used by Ford. To be honest I rather like the standard cloth trim. It seems pretty hard wearing, just watch for fraying on the right-hand drivers seat bolster on high mileage examples. Personally I would not want leather.
The factory never supplied leather trimmed cars. There are a few aftermarket suppliers of leather- and leather-substitute trims for the FTO. One of the best known is Dave at www.ricerocketuk.co.uk (see his leather-subsittute offering on ebay: cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2900...5). Echt-leather is more expensive (around £600 IIRC).
If you are at all interested in the FTO then I would give Giles Payne a ring at JAPCO. I have dealt with him a few times and would recommend him very highly. He is located in Northamptonshire, but operates nationally. He imports and sells FTO's and all FTO parts, he also specialises in accident damaged FTO body repairs for insurance companies. The website is www.japco.co.uk - call him on his mobile number. As a fun car I reckon they are unbeatable - if you cover lowish miles it'll cost you peanuts to run and won't go wrong. I would choose one over an XK8 any day of the week (a potential money pit if ever there was one!) Insuring an FTO over 10 years old is cheap on a 'classic car' policy with limited miles - reckon on around £200 a year (3000 miles) fully comp with the likes of AON or Norton (there is no NCB on these policies of course).
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Are these cars available with air-conditioning, and should that be the case, could one realistically expect to maintain the air-con without too great an expense?
Still got 5-6k to spend on a fun carn but cant decide what to get.
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Are these cars available with air-conditioning and should that be the case could one realistically expect to maintain the air-con without too great an expense? Still got 5-6k to spend on a fun carn but cant decide what to get.
Almost all versions have full climate control, apart from the GPvR, which was a special edition 'stripped down' version - very few sold.
The aircon on these is very reliable and even on the earliest ('95 models) it still seems to work OK. Your biggest problem is likely to be corroded condensor, but replacements are available.
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I've imported loads and i have never seen one with leather seats.Japanese are not fans of leather seats.
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We've got a 95 GPX Mivec which we'd had for 5 years now. Excellent car, rarely goes wrong, pretty quick.
Build quality/interior plastics inside are pretty dire, and it rattles a bit but, bang for buck wise they are excellent. Well specified for its age - climate control.
Alternators just done duff, though.
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We've got a 95 GPX Mivec which we'd had for 5 years now. Excellent car rarely goes wrong pretty quick. Build quality/interior plastics inside are pretty dire and it rattles a bit but bang for buck wise they are excellent. Well specified for its age - climate control.
I think the build quality is actually pretty good. They are well screwed together and even '95 models with 100k+ are still going strong. Try finding a Ford of that age that has not fallen apart. There is virtually no soundproofing though and some of the plastics (e.g. the kick plates) are a bit flimsy. The dash is not bad. I think Mitsi were trying to keep the weight down.
Alternators just done duff though.
Alternators are one of only 2-3 weak spots on these cars (see my post above). I have done two of these now and they are a bit of pig to do (back of engine and awkward to get at). I think I have cracked it though (with the experience of doing two!). Make sure you don't get ripped off on a replacement. GR's have a simpler two-pin alternator, GPX has the four-pin (tacho gen output for MIVEC controller). Low output volts accompanied by a whine is due to triode pack failure (can be repaired fairly cheaply); high volts output (over 14.5V) is due to regulator failure. New reg is around £30 and a couple of soldered joints inside the alty.
For a full recon try RiceRocketUK as per my post above (expect to pay £150 or so). Or try Japanese Starters & Alternators in Coleshill - I think they are around £180 for a warranted recon. Wood Auto can supply parts and also recons - try your local auto electrical guy too - he may be able to help if he knows what he's about....
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For a similar experience in a slightly larger Mitsubishi, try the '96 - '02 Galant VR-4. This has the 2.5 V6 24 valve twin turbo motor. Full time 4WD, usually has 260 or 280bhp. The estate, called a Legnum in Japan is just as much fun and has bags of room. Some come with leather interior, most with climate control and 5 speed tiptronic box. All have the variable rear diff with (Active Yaw Control) AYC, plus ABS and ASC. Quite an active UK club at www.clubvr4.com
Oh, and I have one of these here in New Zealand. It's really the wife's car and she loves it. Round about the same power as my XJ12, but totally different to drive.
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The VR4's are not a bad motor and some were officially imported into the UK. Running costs are on a different planted to the FTO though. I think NZ is a better place to run these motors - you seem to have cheaper fuel and there is a thriving Japanese car 'repair culture'.
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I have sometimes thought about replacing my Carisma with an FTO because of the reliability and they seem such good value, although impractical for us really with two small children. Which ones have ABS, and are they lap belts or diagonal belts in the rear? I also like the Galant (either saloon or estate) - Aprilia, which would be the best Galant to go for? (up to about £4k)
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FTO is a 2+2, so there is room for two SMALL children in the back. There are 4x 3-point inertia belts. IIRC all models from 1997 have ABS, and it was an option on models before then - but I am not 100% sure on this.
The Galant to have IMHO is the 2.5 V6 24V. This is related power unit to the one used in the FTO. Bear in mind that Galant auto's have a bit of a mixed reputation ('box can blow up around 50-60k) and the manuals are notchy as per most Mitsi's - careful choice of oil will mitigate this problem though... The VR4 is a kind of Evo in different bodyshell - but the running costs are very very high. I'm not a fan of the GDI engines - good in theory and when fairly new, but not as reliable as they get older. Quite a few fuelling problems.
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I like these cars - So is there no chance of getting 2 car seats in the back then ?
Bang goes my plan
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Thanks for that info. 4 or 5 year old Galants seem very good value, but you've put me off a bit now! It would probably have been the 2.0, which can be bought for around £3.5k privately with 50k+ miles on them.
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Thanks for that info. 4 or 5 year old Galants seem very good value but you've put me off a bit now! It would probably have been the 2.0 which can be bought for around £3.5k privately with 50k+ miles on them.
Go for the V6 (2.5) - its a very smooth engine. Power output figure doesn't look great on paper, but when you drive it you'll be impressed I think because you can really use the engine right to the red line. No real flaws with these cars - front brake discs wear a bit and front suspension bushes can croak if hard driven, but not difficult or expensive to fix using OEM parts from a Jap specialist factor. I have seen 2003 V6 with 25-35k miles at around £5-6k, which is good value.
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I like these cars - So is there no chance of getting 2 car seats in the back then ? Bang goes my plan
You probably could! I think someone of about 5' could sit in there (depending on the size of the front seat passengers). Really, I think you would have to try a baby seat to make a judgement - its a long time since I've used one!
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Well Insurance for them for me ain't too bad and there's a fair few around.
What's the performance like and MPG etc ??
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Just found this site which probably answers all your FTO questions...
www.hostilesmoker.com/
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Well Insurance for them for me ain't too bad and there's a fair few around.
If you don't mind me asking, what is the likely kind of ballpark figure. I am very much warming to the idea of getting one.
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Models up to and including 1997 you could probably insure cheaply on a 'classic' policy - say around £150-200 a year depending on mileage and where you live.
'Regular' policy will cost similar to a Celica, Impreza etc etc - they are not a low group!
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PS - try the 'usual suspects' for Jap sports insurance - A-plan, AON, Adrian Flux, Sky etc etc. For 'classic' insurance try Norton, AON, Carole Nash
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Does anyone have any first hand experience of FTO Vs Nissan's 200SX?
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Yes, what exactly do you want to know?
200SX bigger and roomier car. RWD. Good old SR20DE engine is pretty tough provided oil is changed regularly. Turbo's can be a bit dodgy and AFM's have a habit of failing (they are not cheap on these) - esp. if aftermarket 'oiled' filter has been used. The performance of 200SX and FTO is similar, but I prefer having a NA V6 rather than a turbo I4. I'm not a great fan of turbo's because you can guarantee that they will give trouble as the car gets older (esp if oil changes are missed) and they are always awkward to work on (tight space and siezed fastners).
You will find that the 200SX is a bit eager to lose the back end, esp in the wet. FTO has a lower CoG and rather more stable, plus a bit more robust engine-wise. FTO still looks modern to me, whereas SX styling is getting a bit long in the tooth IMHO.
If you want a bit more room then the SX is the one to go for, in other respects I rather prefer the FTO. But both are decent motors if you get one that's been looked after.
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Alan-FC
If your looking for an older Japanese sports car the 5th Gen Honda Prelude is also worthy of consideration. The 2.2 Vtec is good for 197BHP, revs up to 8000 rpm - making 'quite' a nice noise in the process! The handling with 4 wheel steering is very different from either the FTO or 200SX but once used to it is very effective and fun for making fast smooth progress around even the most twisty of country lanes.
The styling is a bit of an aquired taste, but personally I agree with Clarkson who has said that the 5th Gen is one of the best looking cars to come out of Japan, however its definitely not as classically stylish as an FTO. Space is also good for 2 with a decent size boot, the back seats are ok for short journeys but if the driver is much above 6 foot are probably pointless.
Fuel consumption is normally around the 25 MPG mark, but can increase significantly on a long run with the use of cruise control. If i didnt get the Prelude I would have gone for an FTO, and I'm sure you'll be very happy if you get one. Personally I would avoid the 200SX mainly due the potential for turbo problems as outlined by Aprilia.
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These FTO things look a great prospect, but at around 10 years old, won't all the suspension bushes be starting to go a bit soggy? I understand these cars are often imported with genuine low mileages, but will they like an old car?
Another quick jap car I have considered is the Honda Accord type R. Does anyone have information to offer on these? I know it?s essentially the same engine as the Prelude, but what are they like to own and drive?
Other things I have had suggested to me in the 4-7k range are a Seat Ibiza Cupra 04 onwards with the 180ps engine, or a Focus st170- is the driving experience of these cars comparable with those discussed above?
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These FTO things look a great prospect but at around 10 years old won't all the suspension bushes be starting to go a bit soggy? I understand these cars are often imported with genuine low mileages but will they like an old car?
What you have to realise is that the FTO is basically a very simple and well-engineered car, and pretty easy to work on. If you can fix a Fiesta you won't have trouble with an FTO. The suspension is similar to Colt/Lancer.
The drop links go about every 50k miles. Front droplinks are dead easy to replace (about 30mins) and readily available at about £30 a pair. Just a nut each end - if its siezed you tickle it with the angle grinder.
Rear drop links are even easier. A complete stainless steel rear droplink kit with Superflex upgraded bushes is about £29. Quick job to fit it.
Superflex do front and rear anti-roll bar bushes for about £12 a set.
The wishbones, rear links etc are very durable and I suspect most '95 FTO's are still running on the originals. Front wishbones complete with bushes and balljoint must be around the £170. All bushes etc are also avalable seperately. Check out Camskill.co.uk for a full listing.
Basically, if you get one with sensible mileage that hasn't been maltreated you'll have a good car with a fair bit of life left in it.
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I contacted Giles at Japco, but unfortunately they do not sell cars anymore. Is there anywhere else one could look for such cars, or could you suggest other good fun cars for similar money?
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The FTO is a brilliant car. Whats more we left ours in the garage for 5 months, turned the key and.. it just started.
Whatever you do, it just seems to work. And go quick. And make a great noise.
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I contacted Giles at Japco but unfortunately they do not sell cars anymore. Is there anywhere else one could look for such cars or could you suggest other good fun cars for similar money?
I'm very very surprised that Japco are not selling any cars. Maybe its a temporary thing, he was advertising a couple earlier this year.
There's a few other places that import them, SP Motors come to mind (www.spmotor.co.uk) and a number of other Japanese specialists - just do a web search. Another good source would be the FTO owners club forum (www.ftooc.org) - although I **think** you have to pay for access. There's lots of FTO's about, so finding a good one should be easy. My preference would be an unmolested GR with manual transmission. Avoid anything with a lots of mods and a massive sound system. Check carefully for roof rust (esp on dark coloured cars) - the FTO's are simple and easy to fix, but roof rust (coming from the inside of the roof skin) is a bit of a killer really.
I couldn't suggest anything else of this type for similar money.
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What are these things worth these days Aprilia?
Ours is a 95M GPX Mivec with manual gearbox. Odometer reads 100k but I believe the first 55k are in Km before it was converted, so it's about what, 70-80k I guess.
£2k?
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Manuals are a lot more desirable. If its a nice clean car with no roof (or other) rust then easy £2k. Is the trim (especially the driver's seat bolster) in good condition? A really pristine one would make £4-5k I reckon. They are holding their value OK at the moment, helped by the fact that most can now be cheaply insured on 'classic car' policies if used as an additional car. Most parts availability is still very good. Just keep an eye on the oil level and be gentle with the engine and gearbox until its warm. The MIVECs (GPX model) seem a bit prone to running crank bearings. Strangely the GR seems to be immune, despite the fact that the bottom end of the engine is the same. I've never heard of a GR with big-end or main-bearing failure.
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I'd say its in good condition with the exception of the swirl marks a 12 year old black car has managed to accumulate over the years. We've had it since 2002.
It's the sort of car you could keep for ever if you had the space, it's worth so little it hardly seems worth selling, especially it'll start after 6 months of sitting in the garage.
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ive had my FTO for a mnth or two now.
no major issues with it............except it is damned good fun
so easy to drive..no need to thrash.no bean can exhaust.just a lovely experience
the GR is the one to have IMO because the engines are more robust and the low down torque is just the same as the \mivec when driving around
i have the tiptronice gearbox,,my 1st ever auto box...and it is so realixing and easy to drive
then u got the sport side of the box...what a scream 90 in second!!!!!!!!
the windows rattle. a minor problem for me to fix
the mileometer is in kms!!! but im not bothered.and the insurance company wouldnt insure me..(morethan) 10 yrs no claims bonus..40 yrs old driver!!!
so i used a specialist(sky) insured me for £300 a yr fully comp./£150 excess courtesy car etc
mine is the very common steel silver version and it is un-molested
alto i have bought new wheels :-)
and ive been underneath and sealed the underneath and the wheel archs with waxoil...as imports dont have the same protection underneath as car made fot the uk do..
does 30mpg..so happy there..climate control is in tip/top condition and everything works in it really well(touch wood)
overall im really really happy with swapping my new cars for this old car...wish id done it ages ago...new cars are boring...and ive had a few
ps aprilia..keeps posting...you are giving me lots of important help/tips
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Been looking at these cars on the autotrader- what the GX models like, are these just later models of the GR cars?
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Been looking at these cars on the autotrader- what the GX models like are these just later models of the GR cars?
Yes, a warmed-over GR. Cams are slightly different (not much) and front bumper (side lights & indicator holes) slightly changed. Read drop links changed to same type as on GPX.
Not really any different to drive than the GR.
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Ok, so a GX is a good bet as well. I am going to keep my eye out for an FTO- i guess it's just a case of buying a really good example and looking after it if i want to minimise depreciation etc.
Now, last question i promise, how bad are these cars in terms of crash safety? A lot worse than someting like a focus?
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Now last question i promise how bad are these cars in terms of crash safety? A lot worse than someting like a focus?
Very very difficult to say exactly. They are a mid-90's car and so provide crash-safety typical of the time. The structure seems pretty strong and they have door impact beams and crumple zones etc. Also there is a decent amount of room inside the car, unlike some sports cars. I would think they are a lot less safe than a current Focus, but on the other hand a lot safer than say, an MX-5 and probably also an MG.
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Ok- thanks for that. I am considering an FTO or a Focus ST170 (ie old shape focus) and that is one of the factors I am trying to weigh up.
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The Galant to have IMHO is the 2.5 V6 24V.
My better half has one, bought with 100k for £1500 and it's still going strong almost 2 years later at 115k.
It had a new clutch before we bought it, otherwise it's had 1 service (£300 including the plugs which need doing every 100k miles), the aircon regassed and a new lower suspension arm because the bush was worn.
Everything works perfectly, climate control, heated & electric seats, all the electric windows, just everything.
The engine isn't exactly powerful at 160ish bhp but it's really smooth and to be honest it's quicker than most things on the road, so quick enough. As said, the manual gearbox is notchy from 1st to 2nd when cold but it's just had some synthetic oil so hopefully it'll improve. Really you drive around it by making the first couple of gear changes very slow and then it's fine.
A really comfortable, quiet old thing that goes well when you thrash it and doesn't break down. I can't see why they're not more popular.
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One thing I will say about the FTO is that despite 200bhp from the GPX you do need to work hard to get this performance - it likes revs. It isn't all that urgent below about 3-4k.
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