Looking for reliable and comfortable family transport which will wont need replacing for at least 5 years preferably more. Needs to accomodate two adults and two young children with plenty of space for family luggage etc, but not a serious load-lugger and not too big. Want decent economy/emissions so probably a diesel, and not a 4x4. But also hoping for something with a bit of style and reasonably fun to drive, so not an MPV. Would like something a bit smarter & more refined than Ford, Skoda etc (yes I know, I'm throwing money away). And wife requests an automatic. Budget: under £20k.
Japanese estates seema bit big/ugly. Like Volvo V50 but no 2-litre diesel automatic. So...
Considering buying new - forthcoming Golf Estate, out this summer. No final specs and prices yet, but there will be a 2.0 TDI DSG, and judging by current Golf & Passat should be pretty good.
For similar price could probably get 1-2-year old Audi A4 Avant 2.0 TDI.
Or for a little more, similar aged BMW 320d touring.
Advice on which to choose? Or any other suggestions?
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EASY!!!
Peugeot 407 HDi 136 Tiptronic automatic SW.
& with the huge glass panoramic roof, it'll not seem too big!!
VB
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You could try a Mercedes B200 CDI like mine, but make sure you get an extended test drive and that you can live with the foul noise it makes on acceleration and the vibro-massage 700 rpm idling speed (apparently unalterable). My test drive was too short: I thought I could live with the above but they still annoy me after a year.
Otherwise it's a well-designed car which ticks most of your boxes. List price is expensive but they hold their value and you can get a good PCP deal.
The Golf estate is worth a good look when it comes out, but it'll probably cost £2,000 more than the equivalent Octavia and will have to offer more than damped grab handles.
There will also be a Kia Ceed estate with a 2.0 dlesel engine - I've had a 1.6 petrol on 3-day test drive at it was very good (see other thread).
Peugeot 407 SW - looks good but came 96th out of 100 for reliability in the Auto Express surbey and they drop in value like a stone - those two facts being doubtless connected.
If you could run to an A4 Avant 2.5 TDI - maybe 1-2 years old - you'd get a 6-cylinder engine which is much more refined than the 2.0 four. There is a flat, unpleasant tone common to most 4-cylinder diesel automatics which to me is strangely reminiscent of a side-valve 1940s Morris Eight or early Minor.
An Octavia is as refined as any of them, so don't dismiss it. Also it's much roomier than most of the opposition unless you go up a size to the Mondeo.
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I'd go get a Mazda 6 with all the toys. Good to drive, spacious and VERY versatile. Not too big. Good diesel. Ridiculously reliable, the update to it improved refinement and build quality, so ought to suit. Also hold their value quite well I believe (for a car of this type).
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Mport, you´ve got to have a look at the new shape Skoda Octavia estate.
Lauren and Klement version, 140bhp TDi with the DSG gearbox that you like the sound of.
It´ll be as refined as anything else with a 4 cylinder engine.
Regards
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How about an Alfa 159 Sportwagon? Big ish, certainly stylish, fun to drive, reliable (yes, I said it!) the 1.9JTDm is the Fiat unit found in Vauxhalls / Saabs and has plenty of go. Or you could get the 200BHP 2.4 5 cyl diesel, but would probably have to go nearly new.
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I was very pleased with my A3 Sportback 2.0 TDi SE DSG and am replacing it with the same. I looked at other 2.0TDi DSG options including the Skoda Octavia Estate and the Passat Estate.
Skoda good value for money, but not as well finished as the Audi and my wife wasn't too impressed with it. Passat has the electric handbrake which didn't appeal and it was a bit on the large side.
£20k will get you an ex demo A3 2.0TDI SE DSG with a few thousand miles on the clock.
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I'd go get a Mazda 6 with all the toys. Good to drive, spacious and VERY versatile. Not too big. Good diesel. Ridiculously reliable, the update to it improved refinement and build quality, so ought to suit. Also hold their value quite well I believe (for a car of this type).
No. New model coming soon (6 months?). Thereafter values for the current ones will fall quicker.
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We went through all this a few years back for our main car and found the A4, V50 and 3 series to be really too small for 2 adults, 2 kids and luggage. The luggage is ok for a weekend but for no longer, but the killer is the rear passenger space. My wife has an A4 saloon and with kids in the boosters they do kick the front seats and push them when they stretch out; on a journey this can drive you round the twist. The Passat, Octavia and Mondeo are the much better choice in this regard. If you're holding off until Summer then the new Mondeo would be well worth a look and I say that because I had an Smax for a weekend test drive last year and despite a few niggles with the aesthetics of the cabin finish and interior noise, I was hugely impressed with almost every aspect of it, the handling, the quality of the interior, the internal space and flexibility and I thought that it was a stylish and fun car to drive. I know that you've dismissed MPVs and I've never felt comfortable in MPVs but for the first time I certainly didn't feel like a reluctant parent who had to sublimate all driving pleasure to cart my kids around in a van. When the wife's A4 goes back, the 2.0tdci Smax is top of the list for another test drive. Haven't driven the new Picasso but it would surely be worth a look.
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I know it's an MPV but the S-Max, I think, is quite a stylish car and will fit your bill very well. Take a look and you may be surprised.
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Thanks for all replies. Very useful
Its funny about the Octavia, or indeed the S-Max. In most respects I am a rational person with a healthy distrust of advertsing and hype. But when it comes to cars I seem to be a marketing man's dream; I cant shake the idea that an Audi is coloer than a VW which is cooler than a Skoda (or a Ford).
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I've just changed my 'cool' £27k 3 series BMW touring for my new 'uncool' £25k S-Max. It's amazing how much you pay for that little blue propeller!!!
If my S-Max had the blue propeller or 4 rings on the grille, it would cost at least £5k more.
£5k for cool? I'll take the better car and have some good holidays thanks.
Good luck choosing your car and enjoy all your test drives.
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Hi mport, don't be fooled by the old Skoda image. I recently did the soul searching you are doing after being disappointed by so many showroom offerings, Ford, VW, even Saab and Volvo are overpriced. A friend convinced me visit Skoda and although mightily impressed by the Octavia I settled on a Superb Elegance. All the bells and whistles you could wish for with limo style room inside and a boot with an echo! Don't be brand led, be led by your common sense and go and try one, you won't regret it. Regards Concrete.
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I agree with martin above with his comments on the S-Max.
I think it gives the best of both worlds.
A colleague at our firm recently gave up a 320d tourer for a FRV which we were all very suprised at.
It turns out that he really enjoys it.
The wide track gives good handling and it also has softer suspension for improved comfort.
He drives it to alot to sites in his surveying work and rates it highly both for carrying his equipment & also as a family transport.
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Is an automatic diesel S max now available?
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Like A900, one of our guys swapped out his 3 series touring for an smax and has had nothing but good words about it. Just to be clear I share your MPV fear and am not saying that you should consider them generally as IME the FRV for example isn't nearly as good as the smax on any level. I am saying that the smax , is the current exception to the rule in this class and is the one mpv that seems to be drawing lifestyle estate drivers out of their preconceptions and leaving them happy with their choice.
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Have to agree really - if it was my monthly tax bill I would have the S max over the FRV - although as I say he likes it. It will take something special to get me out of a 5 series touring (535d) but if I needed the extra space an S-Max may do it although I have not really felt the quality of one yet.
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Is an automatic diesel S max now available?
Not yet.
But then Ford's record with producing diesel autos seems a bit erratic (e.g. Focus C-Max), despite the market clearly demanding them.
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The Auto's are going to start being built from May. Not sure if there will be petrol,diesel or both.
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>>IME the FRV for example isn't nearly as good as the smax on any level.<<
That is a very genralist and uneducated stament to make actually.
Do you really mean on ANY LEVEL ?
As I said - I agree with your choice and would also have the s-max but it is not as good as the FRV in seating 3 a breast for instance, it is not as comfortable, it will be less relaible. The s-max may be a better handler although in real world driving the FRV copes very well with the balance for being sure footed through the bends and more comfortable. Ford have done a very good job at advertising the s-max as a young mans active life style vehicle and Honda have not even tried to advertise the FRV in any way really - other than being good for sticking the little brat in the middle front seat.
Can you be more helpful in future please and keep the discussion at alevel we can all contribute to instead of making broad brush generalisations.
You sound like my wife choosing a fridge when you make comments like that so in the interests of keeping the discussion more interesting could you please comply with my request.
Thanks in advance.
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The new Mondeo will be worth a look, will have 2.0 tiptronic diesel, seems that the S-Max will get the same auto option at about the same time.
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>>IME the FRV for example isn't nearly as good as the smax on any level.<< That is a very genralist and uneducated stament to make actually. Do you really mean on ANY LEVEL ? As I said - I agree with your choice and would also have the s-max but it is not as good as the FRV in seating 3 a breast for instance,
SBob,
Not quite sure where you get the view that the FRV is better than the S-Max at seating 3 abreast UNLESS you mean in the front seats. S-Max is wider than the FRV, the rear seats are larger and therefore I'd suggest the S-Max is better than the FRV at 3 abrest(unless you mean the front of course!!!)
Take Care
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Yes, I did mean the front - hence the comment on the little brat.
As I say I am not disagreeing but I think making genralisations is not very educated.
I made a specific point about 3 in a row and you were able to immediately respond and we can discuss and you can educate me on the stuff I don't know.
To just come out with - it's better on 'any level' is nonsense and kills debates.
(The guy's comments reminded me of a local radio station phone in about football where a 11 year old kid phoned in and said his team should win the premiership because they were ace and better all round than anyone else)
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I think it's like most things, get a general view from others BUT make your own decisions based on your own experiences.
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I specifically stated that IME the FRV isn?t nearly as good as the smax on any level, and it is based on my experience of driving both that make my comments, not advertising or preconceptions so your statement that they are either general or uneducated simply makes no sense. From an MPV baseline, the smax majors on handling, style, and a well-finished cabin. It is the most desirable MPV for someone like the OP or myself who is otherwise not disposed to an MPV. Why we are even discussing the FRV is beyond me as it is an ok MPV which, IMO and IME, succeeds in none of these areas.
In addition to the smax, I recommended the Passat, Mondeo and Octavia. As I neither own nor drive any of the cars that I?ve recommended to the OP I can hardly be said to be supporting any team, in fact stark contrast to your first postings on this forum, I am actually being helpful.
Bob, you signed up yesterday. Please lose the attitude as your snide and abusive remarks are uncalled for. We were not in conversation and until your post the Honda was not being discussed and there was no debate to kill. If you have something constructive to add please do so but refrain from making nonsensical metaphors.
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Been catching up on comments. Now, now children don't fight, it's only a open forum not a competition. If we all put our comments in based on what we have experienced then Mport can filter through them. He can decide if wantsto pay 20K for A3 or something that represents better all round eveything especially value for money. It's good we all have different views and tastes otherwise there would only be one or two cars to choose from. Concrete.
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>>From an MPV baseline, the smax majors on handling, style, and a well-finished cabin. <<
Thanks for doing what I asked and stating specifics.
I agree it majors on handling, style and cabin finish - rather than all levels.
Cheers
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Mport, if you have ruled out Skoda, Fords etc, and are prepared to pay that bit more then I would go with your own suggestion of the BMW 320d.
They are that bit bigger now and still drive well. And likelyhood is, you will still get back a fair chuck of the premium went you move it on in 5 yrs time
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