no do$h :- 4 x 4s? eh. - 3 fish hooked so far, including me. any bets on now-wheels and others joining in to make it another marathon thread?
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I think the odds on a rerun of that particular thread are slim, as I suspect DD and his fellow mods will watch any thread with 4x4 or tax in the title with interest. I was starting to lose the will to live at the end of that one!
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Do they do a new Fiat Panda 4x4 Diesel?
Or what about a Renault Kangoo Trekka 4x4 Diesel?
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Do they do a new Fiat Panda 4x4 Diesel?
They do, apparently, but not here. Daft, really - the Multijet engine would be ideal for that. The Multijet engine in Mrs B's Panda pulls very strongly, even in de-torqued form (106 lbs ft as opposed to 133 lbs ft in other 70 bhp examplesfound in Puntos and the like).
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Here's a bit of provocation then.
An old, barely legal Range Rover belching smoke and fumes can be had fairly cheaply, and has style. If what you want is something reliable, go for an old, barely legal Toyota Land Cruiser or Jeep Cherokee/Grand Cherokee belching smoke and fumes. And of course if you're a true fashion victim an ex-military Humvee or something even bigger should be available fairly cheaply.
Forget about diesels. They don't go fast unless they're new and modern and they don't make the proper V8 firing on 6 or 7 noise. If you're a tree hugger, get a Justy.
Come on NW! Where are you! Make No Dosh's life worth living again (is this right?).
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Now now Lud, leave Now Wheels alone. Despite what some of you may think, I do agree with Now Wheels on some subjects. Well bits of some subjects anyway.
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So do I. She's bright-eyed, bushy-tailed and virtuous like many modern whippersnappers under 50. But her attitudes to the automobile are sadistic (a term that offended her the first time I used it, and I still don't know whether she really understood or believed my explanation).
In the last very tedious (I agree) long argument on these matters, although I disagreed with her I couldn't help sympathising as so many people were coming on heavy with her. I reckon NW would be good company as long as certain matters were avoided.
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well now then, seeker is a virgin backroomer. so go easy on him/her. don't confuse with terms such as caps-lock and diff-lock.
remember, his/her main criteria are running costs; fuel, parts, reliability.
no mention of initial purchase price, insurance, depreciation.
so you need to tell him/her which of the 4x4s such as the audi q7, toyota landcruiser, rangerover sport, bmw x5, ford-exlporer, volvo xc90, porsche cayenne, vw tourag, ..... will meet his needs best.
oh yes, ignore global warming, personal choice, its a free world, pedestrian safety, and danger to other road-users.
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main criteria are running costs; fuel, parts, reliability.
Oh, an easy one then....... ::rolls eyes::
I think we may need a little more to go on.
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>> main criteria are running costs; fuel, parts, reliability.
The reliability requirement rules out all modern Land-Rovers then ...
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.. Oh, an easy one then....... ::rolls eyes::
my, are you that slow, now? bait, hook, line, trawlers, fish, .......... deja vu ....
anyway, what caused the long absence? or what caused the sudden reappearnce?
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>> .. Oh, an easy one then....... ::rolls eyes:: my, are you that slow, now? bait, hook, line, trawlers, fish, .......... deja vu .... anyway, what caused the long absence? or what caused the sudden reappearnce?
Sloooooow, meeeeeeeeeee......? Whatever gave you that
idea?
The long absence? I needed a break from here. After reading every post on every subject for what felt like a lifetime I was going stir crazy. You only need to look at HJ and Dynamic Dave to see what continued exposure to this place can do to you.....
As for the reappearance, I felt the media frenzy on 4x4s and global warming was massively unbalanced, but the other forum I regularly go on is solely 4x4 owners, so I was only seeing the extremes of the argument. The budget was the catalyst to seek out a broader spectrum of views and engage in a more informed and dare I say challenging discussion?
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I think the odds on a rerun of that particular thread are slim, as I suspect DD and his fellow mods will watch any thread with 4x4 or tax in the title with interest. I was starting to lose the will to live at the end of that one!
Since you (and Mark) now seem incapable of disagreeing on some subjects without resorting to a torrent of personal abuse, I'll give it a miss. If I want abuse, there are plenty of places I go to find the sort of folks who prefer attacking people to discussing ideas. It's a pity: there are plenty of very thoughtful folks in the backroom who can discuss all sorts of disagreements in a civilised way, and we can all learn a lot from each other.
It'll probably surprise you that I do actually have rather a lot of experience of towing, and had a few suggestions in mind. But since the result last time was an alcohol-fuelled rant, I'll give it a miss.
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NowWheels,
Quite frankly I find your accusations toward Mark and ND laughable. For hopefully the last time of mentioning this, no one resorted to a torrent of personal abuse toward you. I repeat NO ONE (put in capital letters and bold in case you failed to spot it!). Had there been, then the moderators mail box would have been flooded with complaints? For the record, not one complaint arrived.
From my point of view a discussion took place where you disagreed with everyone else, and you tried preaching your views onto them in a "I'm holier than you" approach. Yes, the discussion got heated, but that was mainly down to your hate of 4x4's. You hate them, therefore everyone else should hate them.
Now do us all a favour and change the record.
DD.
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>>But since the result last time was an alcohol-fuelled rant, I'll give it a miss.
Surprises me, I never had you down as a heavy drinker.
>>If I want abuse, there are plenty of places I go to
That, on the other hand, doesn't surprise me.
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Since you (and Mark) now seem incapable of disagreeing on some subjects without resorting to a torrent of personal abuse, I'll give it a miss.
There was no personal abuse. Your opinions were attacked, not yourself, and since you in turn were attacking their opinions you really don't have a leg to stand on with this latest version of holier-than-thou soap-boxing.
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It'll probably surprise you that I do actually have rather a lot of experience of towing, and had a few suggestions in mind. But since the result last time was an alcohol-fuelled rant, I'll give it a miss.
It doesn't surprise me at all NW, I'd already formed the idea that you had a rural upbringing and you've often shown a great deal of knowledge on the muddier/greasier end of running cars in the countryside. As for alcohol fuelled, the Rioja remark was aimed at Lud in a faux Rumpole style, hence the obsequious tone of that particular post.
It may surprise you that I have a great deal of respect for many of your views, but that doesn't mean I won't challenge dogmatic repetition of beliefs as facts. The debate is still very much alive and well in the scientific community and I see no reason why that shouldn't be replicated in the public arena.
Some of my remarks in the budget thread were provocative, but your extrapolation of the available data to form assumptions on my personal use and choice of a vehicle were equally provocative. Nevertheless it is obvious I have caused you personal offence and I wish to apologise here and now for the upset I have caused you.
That aside, it would be a shame if the OP missed out on any suggestions you might have because we fell out.
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OK, No dosh. Yes, it's primarily for towing purposes and also for commuting. Don't need a huge vehicle. Needs to be diesel , seats -5, doors -3 sufficient. Some offroad, but nothing too adventurous. Needs to be able to tow 1500kgs minimum. Enough info? SORRY FOR CAPS LOCK!
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If 1500 kg is towing capacity you can pretty much forget lightweights in the 4x4 stakes, look at early Kia Sportage not pretty but in 4x4 circles they are reated highly for reliability and running costs but check towing capacity,
Any thing Japanese is also rated highly Toyota Land Cruiser and Mitsubishi Shogun are rated very highly here in rural Cumbria from the horse and shed pulling sect plus plenty parts back up not from main dealer to keep costs down.
Avoid Land Rover unless you buy pre 2000 Defenders and Discos and Just avoid early freelanders as a local garage has a regular trade in repiaring the damned things
Use branded diesel though as we find in our shogun we get more miles per litre on shell and bp than on supermarket stuff.
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I have to agree with MrNikko on this one. Towing 1500kg doesn't require enormous grunt but precludes a lot of regular cars, particularly with some offroad driving involved. SWB Landcruiser and Shogun/Pajero would be my first port of call if buying used. Mitsubishi UK have had a serious rethink on parts pricing and on providing parts for "grey" imports and are now pretty competitive, making early Pajeros a solid proposition. A Discovery with the 300TDi engine rather than the TD5 shares a lot of essential components with the Defender of the same age but is massively cheaper as Defenders are "trendy" while early Discos aren't. Go figure..... There's a good write up/comparison of Defenders versus Discoveries in this months Land Rover Owner International (or it may be Land Rover Monthly, can't remember at the mo).
For newer vehicles then the Kia Sorento was tow car of the year and they have a very good record for reliability, and there'sits cousin the Hyundai Sante Fe to consider as well. The only downside with these two is that the stock of panels for accident repair in the UK is woeful, and there were many tales of cars awaiting panels for months on end last year. They have resolved that now though.
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