The time will soon be here to replace the missus' 306 Sedan with something with at least 6 seats. She doesn't want the length of an estate - so my V70 escapes fitment of optional third row seats and I don't get the Elise I thought I might - and quite likes the Zafira as a "shorter and taller" approach. Applying the 80:20 rule, the advantages this gives her in projected normal use outweighs the nuisance factor when wanting to conduct an airport run with a full compliment of passengers and their baggage.
When it comes to engine, she cares little beyond disliking the slightest trace of diesel clatter either inside or outside the cabin. A diesel is therefore a strict no-no. The car will be driven only 9k miles or so per annum, so beyond not wishing to rape the planet, getting every last MPG is of little interest anyway. Ownership is likely to be very long term, so depreciation is not our biggest worry, either. Although in due course it won't be used on a school run (this will be a 150 yard walk when the kids are old enough to go) the car will carry sticky fingered, seat back scratching, Toms, Dicks, and Harrys we have little jurisdiction over; it will thus be a "new to us" purchase, not a brand new purchase.
Of course I will drive the car too on occasion, and in any case will be paying both to buy and run it, so what about what I would like? Putting the missus's wishes first, which don't include engine beyond "no diesel", I could probably still have some fun with a second hand Mk I Zafira GSi or ex demo Mk II SRi or VXR. This would also satisfy my like of strong performance aided by the torque and power curves of an excellent range of turbocharged engines. There's one problem though; whilst the missus dislikes diesels, I'm not a fan of four cylinder motors, only purchasing the 306 because it was a sacrificial first car for her and cost buttons to buy and insure. No, I prefer a five cylinder growl or six cylinder howl.
The new Galaxy is longer and wider than the missus wants, likewise the Galaxy with a haircut, the superb S-Max, so buying ex-demo versions of either of these with the fabulous Volvo 2.5T engine is unlikely.
Can any BRer think of a true Zafira sized MPV with front wheel drive, at least 6 seats, a 5 or 6 cylinder engine, and available second hand or ex-demo?
I can't find one from a trawl through the mags, which to be honest has not surprised me, but does one exist that I have missed before I resign us to a 1.8 base model with adjust-it-yourself aircon? (it's the 5 or 6 cylinders I'm prepared to pay for, not the trim level and gizmos; these would only come as a "bonus" of higher end engine spec)
Ta muchly.
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To clarify something that appears to be a contradiction above without some pretty good mind reading; in a focused car with good track day attributes such as the Elise I'd like, or even more so, an Atom or a Radical SR4, four cylinders is fine. The more stratospheric the revs (aided in the case of the supercharged Atom variant by the blower!) the better. In any regular car where refinement figures though, it's five or six cylinders as a preference every day.
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All I can think of is a Kia Sedona - but I think that's a full-size MPV rather than Zafira-size. It's a shame - there's a gap in the market here. Like you I think a five or a six is worth having over a four.
Maybe if this is too big you should persuade her to go for a test drive in an S-Max - otherwise you have to sacrifice 6 seats or 6 cylinders. There is of course a wide choice one you've made either sacrifice, but that isn't quite the point, is it! I suppose if it were me I'd try to find the smoothest, torquiest, petrol 2-litre MPV, and probably end up with a Zafira, with a glance at a Scenic or a Mazda 5.
Good luck!
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how about the smaller estates like 3 series, XType, Volvo........you can easily get 5 or 6 cylinders and they're not as vast as a V70 or equivalent.........X Type and Volvo can be FWD (although 2.5 and 3.0 6 cyl X types are 4WD)
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Mk I Zafira GSi is about as good a comprimise as I can think of.
Hyundai Trajet I *think* is a bit smaller than the Sedona, and has a 2.7 V6. Also does 17.5 MPG round town.
Hope the twins are well.
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Espace V6, rather large though.
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Espace V6, rather large though.
Yup; suggested quite some time ago - before current deliberations - but dismissed as too big.
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Mk I Zafira GSi is about as good a comprimise as I can think of.
It's actually the only high performance mid sized MPV I can think of, available second hand on the UK market!
Such a shame it's not fitted with a 5 or 6 cylinder engine.
Hyundai Trajet I *think* is a bit smaller than the Sedona, and has a 2.7 V6. Also does 17.5 MPG round town.
Too big, sorry.
Hope the twins are well.
Very well, thanks! We can't believe how much development has happened in six short months. Thank heavens for digitial photograpy and video, though they can't replace the warmth of feeling felt when things happen. Trusting all's well in your continental neck of the woods.
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how about the smaller estates like 3 series, XType, Volvo........you can easily get 5 or 6 cylinders
They are not 6 or seven seaters as described in the "spec" unfortunately, so don't appear on the radar.
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The S-Max is surprisingly wieldy for its size. I made a point of taking the one I borrowed through some gnarly town traffic and, if anything, found it easier to thread through gaps than the S60. Dead easy to park, too, since the sides and back are pretty well vertical. And you can take six people to the airport and only have to leave some of their luggage behind!
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All I can think of is a Kia Sedona
Nice try, thanks, but your size belief is correct and it's bigger than the missus would like. It's looking more and more like she will have a regular Zafira all the time! Hope you're keeping well.
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Reckon it might be better to look for something that is entertaining to drive from a chassis point of view, the old Zafira fits the bill though is a bit dated in other respects.
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Given the critreria, I can't think of anything but a S-Max 2.5 (on the basis that a Merc R-class would be too big and pricey).
But is this aversion to diesels and 4-cylinders is seriously compromising your choice. Are you sure it's valid? When did the missus last drive a modern diesel? I think she wouldl be surprised.
And as to 5-cylinder growls - they ain't what they used to be (I blame noise insulation). We used to have a Transporter T4 with the 2.4 5-cylinder diesel that had a lovely growl. Picked up the new Transporter (2.5 174) on Saturday and although we are obviously talking early early days it seems to be lacking in the growl department!
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Blimey, you dont make things easy do you SJB!
Its the zafira GSI (which btw is indecently quick) or this one
www.renaulttv.co.uk/main.php, click videos, then espace F1
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Blimey, you dont make things easy do you SJB! Its the zafira GSI (which btw is indecently quick) or this one www.renaulttv.co.uk/main.php, click videos, then espace F1
:-)
I remember it well, thanks; a shame the missus would discount it on account of physical size!
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But is this aversion to diesels and 4-cylinders is seriously compromising your choice. Are you sure it's valid? When did the missus last drive a modern diesel? I think she would be surprised.
The missus doesn't like even the faintest hint of diesel clatter either inside the car or outside when watching one manoeuvre. This includes a friend's E Class CDi 320 and an Aunt's Brabus D5 ("They both sounded like tractors when turning round on our driveway") let alone the quite dreadful new Golf next door (Clattery outside, and inside on the move sounds like the engine is keeping the passengers company. To be frank, I was shocked that a perceived quality manufacturer can get away with such a lack of refinement)
The five or six cylinder criteria is mine. Without mega revs, four cylinder engines just make a noise, period. White goods with no culture or soul. With five or six cylinders, they invariably gain that culture and soul. A Zafira with an Alfa 3.2 V6 250. Now that would be something both in the aural stakes and to be proud of when popping the bonnet up and looking at those highly polished inlet pipes...
And as to 5-cylinder growls - they ain't what they used to be (I blame noise insulation).
Not always true; my V70 is wonderfully quiet in the cruise, but has a muscular growl under heavy load and stays refined at all times. Never intrusive, it none the less sounds like a Quattro. (Capital Q). Likewise my Vectra GSi V6 had a fabulous howl beyond 5000RPM.
Picked up the new Transporter (2.5 174) on Saturday and although we are obviously talking early early days it seems to be lacking in the growl department!
I actually quite liked the engine note of the Transporter I drove (2.5 130) , as you can read under "Refinement" at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=105. Hope you enjoy yours, though I have no doubt you will.
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Given that the twins will grow, and more importantly, so will the kit they take around with them, I'd suggest that a Zafira will soon be too small.
S-Max is a fine car, by anyone's standards - have a test drive.
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Is the Renault Espace really that big? I know that the Grande Espace is but the "bog standard" one isn't as long as my Mitsub. Grandis and the Grandis in turn has nearly exactly the same dimensions as my BMW 5 Estate (old shape e39)
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