Fair and reasonable point, l'escargot.
It does in fact back up my argument that "truckies" (come on NoF2MR!!) have more responsibility and duty to behave professionally doesn't it?
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Right, now that the trucker's rant seems to be over, I think that I need to ask a very deep question about lorry drivers: are all of them murdering hitch-hikers, or is it just the majority?
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Alebear, will you be my friend? : )
Do you mean they hitch-hike themselves, or they murder hitch-hikers? Just to be clear...
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I think (like tu) that there are 2 sides to every story.
Was it an uphill stretch of road? Was the lorry trying to keep slow forward momentum to avoid getting to a point where it held up allroad users, not just the 1 ?
there are bad truck drivers out there. Bad car drivers too.
Sure you werent just trying to queue jump like a lot of car drivers do to lorries?
Absoloutley no excuse for swerving into lane of motorway though !
But I doubt if any driver carries a grudge like that for no reason at all!
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Hello yorkiebar.
It was an uphill stretch, yes, but he was miles behind and actually stopped, or if he WAS moving it was imperceptible. i wasn't queue jumping, I merely realised I was in the wrong lane. It happens! The road is abysmally signposted, and only when I was coming up to the junction did it say on the road M60 left lane.
Even if he was doing the momentum thing, I wouldn't have made any difference, the queue was moving slowly when I moved into it, as I say, he was stopped and the car in front of him was moving slowly. And I am sorry, but 9/10 people wouldn't be able to make a judgement on what he was doing re momentum... say your mum or dad did a similar thing and received the same reaction, would you be happy with some over-testosteroned numpty having a pop? If I had been in the car and it happened to someone I cared about, I would have struggled to contain my reactions. As it was just me, I let him have his alpha male moment, I am sure he doesn't have many, hence his inner rage IMHO.
A professional driver should NEVER ever react with a swerve, even if he was provoked which in this instance he wasn't. And going back again to my pet hate, if he's that bothered about momentum, why did he stop to admonish me? Was it, forgive my cynicism, so he could do the hard-done-by Ivor the Engine trick?
Mission failed if so, because it just makes me laugh. Makes me laugh less when they're pushing into roundabouts chuffing and puffing "cos it's hard to get going again" but that's a different gripe; suffice to say it's hard for me to get going again on a roundabout if I am impaled by a Scania. You take the disadvantages as well as the advantages when you do a job. A Scania is never going to be as easy to keep momentum in or get going again as a Mini. If you don't like it, don't do it. And don't compromise my safety whilst you're doing your job.
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You were there, i wasnt. You saw whole story, I cant.
But I still don't think that many drivers would carry a grudge like that for no reason at all.
Sounds lke bad driving anyway, I repeat, absoloutely no excuse for swerving on the motorway; even if there was a reason in the queue for his action/reaction that you maybe didnt understand.
But don't assume all lorry drivers are bad ! They are not !
There are far more bad car drivers, van drivers and bike drivers than there are good ones too imo. But I think generally the older more experienced lorry drivers are way betther than the newer younger less experienced breed !
Maybe paying peanuts and getting monkeys is part of the problem?
But the most important point is better to arrive late than not arrive at all !
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"But I still don't think that many drivers would carry a grudge like that for no reason at all."
They do!
Some years back I hooted when a coach indicated and starting moving into my lane. I was using the horn for the intended purpose, and not for aggression. At the next lights, the driver got out, walked up to my car, and threatened to find out where I lived and beat me up. (I later found that the coach station was 50m from my home!) I did not respond except to write down his number plate.
On another occasion I hooted to warn a BMX X5 not to move right because I was there. I was quite frightened she would collide. The response was a two fingered salute. I ignored it. Half a mile later the same car screamed past me, honm blaring, right arm out of the driver window, repeatedly stabbing a single finger in the air. The abuse continued for several miles. I ignored it. Eventually she stopped, so I pulled in, and walked up to her. (I was very curious what sort of person behaved in such a strange manner. Especially since she was driving a brand new BMX X5 4x4.) She was shouting at me continuously "Are you blind, you can't be blind, you are wearing glasses, what is your problem, are you mad, are you going to hit me, go on, go on, hit me". It was very very strange behaviour. Eventually I said loudly "You horrible rude woman" and walked off. I concluded that some people have personal problems, and that they simply release built up tension on the road. Hence behaviour that is totally disproportionate and plain odd.
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>>"But I still don't think that many drivers would carry a grudge like that for no reason at all."
Search back in this forum. Some time ago there was an incident with a Trucker and a girl in a Mini on the A34 that I wrote a note about.
Some [a lot] of truck drivers are ignorant idiots of the first order.
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Stevied, Your earlier posts suggest you see this type of behaviour all the time - now I used to drive an awful lot more miles then I do now and I can never say that I have seen the amount of bad driving that you seem to. This leads to two conclusions, either:-
1) I drive with blinkers on(which a crash free driving history over the last 15 years does not suggest)
2) You seem to get yourself into situations that become troublesome.
So which are we to think then? I know where my money is going.
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It was an uphill stretch, yes, but he was miles behind and actually stopped, or if he WAS moving it was imperceptible. i wasn't queue jumping, I merely realised I was in the wrong lane. It happens!
How big was this gap really? 2 or 3 car lengths? 10 or 12 car lengths? Miles?
Even if he was doing the momentum thing, I wouldn't have made any difference, the queue was moving slowly when I moved into it, as I say, he was stopped and the car in front of him was moving slowly. And I am sorry, but 9/10 people wouldn't be able to make a judgement on what he was doing re momentum...
Are you saying you couldn't judge whether he was moving or not? If so maybe you should not have pulled in front of him? Or are you just saying the movement was imperceptible through your mirrors? Was it a dry, clear day, thus allowing you perfect vision through your crystal clear mirrors?
Maybe he was just moving off, you appear in front of him as he gathers momentum, hence his surprise and resulting reaction (which sounds inexcusable). Maybe he was just lacking concentration for a second, in that second the piece of tarmac he was expecting to occupy was suddenly occupied by your car?
A professional driver should NEVER ever react with a swerve, even if he was provoked which in this instance he wasn't.
This 'swerve': to me that implies speed...if he wasn't moving when you pulled in front of him, where did this sudden turn of pace and agility come from?
I'm not saying he was not in the wrong, the later motorway incident sounds appalling. But, would he really have reacted like this because some car driver pulled in front of him whilst he was stopped? He'd never reach his destination if he was that easily offended. Maybe, just maybe, there was a misjudgement on your part which was compounded by inattention/surprise on his part resulting in his huge over-reaction?
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Blimey, it looks like several people are engaged in a mass "throw toys out of pram" session. How can you argue about an incident where neither person was present?
Back on the ranch, I have come across many people who are on a short fuse. Any excuse, and bang, they are off. Even if the original poster made a mistake (and I am not saying he did) the truck driver had no right to drive dangerously as 'punishment'. Those person are a menace and should be locked up.
I once overtook a car in lane 2, and then pulled in to lane 1. I did not cut him up, slow him down or anything. But he flashed his lights. I wondered why. Later he overtook me, then pulled in, and slowed down to 50 (on the motorway), as I was about to turn off, forcing me to brake. He played this silly game for several minutes, purposefully braking and sitting in the wrong lane, presumably as 'punishment' for a perceived transgression on my part. At one point he entered a roundabout in the left lane, and then went right round the roundabout at a slow speed. I stayed well back, so as to keep out of his way, as he was unpredictable, and hence a danger.
Some people really are on a short fuse, and at the slightest excuse (real or imagined) will engage in dangerous driving to get 'revenge'. They probably end up in an accident sooner or later. The only safe option is to not join in their game. Stay back, do not respond, get away as soon as safely possible to do so. And don't forget about Kenneth Noye. And do report them to the police as they are interested (so I am told by the police).
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Ok, its possible.
I have been drving many years too and seen my share of idiots on the road and have recieved many "salutes" which I have always ignored.
probably made a few swear by my own mistakes too.
But I have never experienced anybody holding a grudge long enough to single me out, after seeing me on the road later ! Either they drive off fast or I get away from them. Best course of action for all probably?
And for no reason ?
But there are idiots on the road. No argument there !
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Not yet mentioned on this thread, but the advice of GRowler´s wife during a road rage incident: ´whatever his problem is, why do want to be a part of it?´ is probably worth repeating.
Regards all,
Barchettaman.
PS it´s seriously cold out here at the mo´, and I´m commuting 30k a day on the pushbike across town as Mrs B has the car in England til March. So think of me as you cruise around in your heated, comfortable cars ;-)
(cue the sound of the world´s smallest violin playing a lamenting tune)
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Told you
Barking mad
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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"I´m commuting 30k a day on the pushbike"
Blimey, that's going some - I only do about 12k a year in my car ;-)
--
Phil
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>>(come on NoF2MR!!)
Sorry, work etc.
I was coming up the A34 yesterday, around 4ish and predictably there was a hold up at the roadworks just south of Didcot. Now, because the contractors are aware of the ignorant, vigilante-style tactics of the truckers there were many signs that said "when queueing use BOTH lanes".
Despite this, the truck-piloting planks were still sat on the white line *2 MILES* before the lane ended forcing everybody into one lane. I am sure out of their windscreen all looked serene and they felt they were doing God's work. However, behind them for some distance all was chaos.
The most ignorant and ridiculous truck driving is done by the most ignorant and ridiculous truck drivers. And if they are so stupid that they behave like that in the first place, then they won't have the intelligence or awareness to either understand why its wrong or to be able to listen to anyone who tries to explain it to them..
Trying to convince them is a waste of breath. The effect is only compounded by the seemingly few aware and intelligent involved that defend them out of some kind of loyalty or brotherhood.
Personally I believe that of the many adantages of moving freight back to the railways, the opportunity to rid ourselves of some of these idiots is a significant factor.
And "knights of the road keeping the country going" don't make me laugh. White Van Drivers with very big vans is all you are.
And don't get upset with me over my comments, if you don't behave like this then I'm not referring to you. And if you do, then I don't care what you think.
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Having been brought up in a garage & haulage environment, and having driven trucks for a short while, I have a natural soft spot for heavy transport. However, I tend to agree with most of Mark's comments.
Yes, car drivers don't understand how much room trucks need, yes, car drivers do daft things - but a good hgv driver should be able to deal with this without getting wound up by it. If they can't avoid getting hot under the collar, then they are in the wrong job.
The momentum argument is a real nonsense - the performance of modern trucks is so good that away from steep hills, it really isn't a problem. Of course it's better and easier if you don't stop a truck, but this doesn't give hgv drivers the right to push other road users about.
Where I do side with truck drivers is that it is an awful job - spending all day and all night in the tin box, being hassled by warehouse jobsworths at both ends of the journey, being hassled by incompetent transport managers who either don't know the law, or expect you to ignore the law (particularly drivers' hours). Again, this doesn't give truck drivers the right to push other road users about.
One of my more horrid nightmares is that my current career goes completely down the pan, and, to keep SWMBO in some degree of comfort, and Vim under the kitchen sink, I end up back in a truck!
For those who haven't, I seriously recomend trying / hiring, or even just sitting in a 7.5 tonne truck. It will show you what the truck driver can and can't see (which might be surprising to you), and it will begin to give you some appreciation of the space and different lines that a truck needs.
Number_Cruncher
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Good post nc but..
have to disagree about the momemtum bit.
I think you have driven big lorries? Uphill, at a junction, snowing, poor grip? Momentum = better for all road users = yes !
Worst alternative is lost grip, no forward motion = stuck lorrry = traffic chaos (at a junction) for all !
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As is usual on these boards,this is another one of those, 'Let's have a go at the truck driver post.'
I am a Class 1 HGV driver,and have been for 10 years.I held my Class 2 for 5 years previous to that,and was driving 7.5 tonners at 19. (I'm now 42.) I like to think I am very sensible/courteous to other road users.
I'm not 100% perfect,non of us are,and neither are a lot of car drivers,but as soon as someone like myself tries to put the other side of the story,the thread usually gets locked by the mods.Hardly freedom of speech,is it?
I can't,and won't condone bad driving by my fellow professionals,but please don't tar us all with the same brush.
I will however,say what I've said before when posts like this appear,that is,if anyone wants to spend a day with me,and see what it's like from MY point of view,then please feel free to e.mail me,and as long as you can be available anytime between midnight and midday,when my shift could start,be available on a weekend as well,and be prepared to be in the cab,for up to 15 hours,then don't be shy.
I'm located near Wakefield,if that helps.
Ken.
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As is usual on these boards,this is another one of those, 'Let's have a go at the truck driver post.'
Are you sure? Because I see a person complaining about a particular Trucker, not all of you. It seems to be a psychological problem amongst the truckers on this forum that they're unable to see an insult to one trucker without taking it as an insult to all, hence TU's slightly bizarre ranting.
If you can accept the possibility that this one driver acted like an idiot (and if you can't, that's a problem, what evidence to the contrary do you have?) then why not take the thread at face value, rather than assuming it's prejudice?
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It seems to be apsychological problem amongst the truckers on this forum that they're unable to see an insult to one trucker without taking it as an insult to all, hence TU's slightly bizarre ranting. If you can accept the possibility that this one driver acted like an idiot (and if you can't, that's a problem, what evidence to the contrary do you have?) then why not take the thread at face value, rather than assuming it's prejudice?
What part exactly do you find bizarre? I have merely offered up a different side to the story, one I have seen many a time, as have the other truck drivers who have responded. Not once have I actually defended the said drivers actions, I just have not commented on them, because of this lack of comment you and others have assumed (remember what they say about assuming) that I agree with his actions, all I have said is that I do believe we have had the full story from the OP and that there are other sides to the story - So I am somewhat confused over your use of the word bizarre!
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all I havesaid is that I do notbelieve we have had the full story from the OP
Slight edit, so it says what it is supposed to...........doh!
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What part exactly do you find bizarre? I have merely offered up a different side to the story, one I have seen many a time, as have the other truck drivers who have responded. Not once have I actually defended the said drivers actions, I just have not commented on them, because of this lack of comment you and others have assumed (remember what they say about assuming) that I agree with his actions, all I have said is that I do believe we have had the full story from the OP and that there are other sides to the story - So I am somewhat confused over your use of the word bizarre!
The part where you disbelieve the OPs post despite no evidence to the contrary? If you're telling me that there's no reason for your disbelief beyond the fact that you're determined to stick up for each and every trucker mentioned on these pages, then I'm afraid I disbelieve you - but I have some evidence for my doubt.
If you're willing to accept that the lorry driver is psychotic enough to perform the actions described in the latter part of the story, I don't see the difficulty in believing that he'd perform them with little or no justification.
Oh, and, more specifically (since it is to be fair what I was referring to when I used the word bizarre) the way you jumped onto the defensive at this terrible insult to the lorry driving profession despite the fact that it was a story about an individual, not an entire industry.
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>if anyone wants to spend a day with me,
I knew it - its true - all truckers are gay. Do you have blue lights in your cab? ;)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Do you have blue lights in your cab? ;) ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Why? Need to know where to buy some from do you TVM? ;o)
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You can tell me then TU? ;)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Of course TVM, they should look good on your VW, Will make you stand out from the crowd down at Clapham Common. ;o)
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Excelent - see you down there ;)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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>>have to disagree about the momemtum bit.
Yes, it's best to keep the truck moving - but absolutely not at the cost of being a bully to other road users.
Sometimes, I think there can be an odd view of traffic priorities. A push bike and a 38 tonner both (typically!) propel exactly one human being, one much more vulnerable than the other - In my mind's eye, these two road users are of of exactly equal importance, and one doesn't have the right to push the other about, in fact, the 38 tonner really has a very serious duty of care for the cyclist while in their vicinity.
Number_Cruncher
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I was going down the A34 on Friday morning. I hit the road works, as expected ( been warned on here ), and sure enough, there are signs sayng USE BOTH LANES and 200 yards before the pinch is a sign saying MERGE IN TURN.
No one did of course because immediately behind me 1 mile from the junction a lorry pulled out then straddled both lanes.
A large proportion of lorry drivers are pigs.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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But the problem with these "merge in turn" signs is that they are usually 800 yards away from the lane closure, so some start to merge at that point, and others move on down the clearer outside lane.
My solution would be the two lanes have cones between them for the last 800 yards to stop lane swapping. And then when they do become one lane, the new lane is coned in such a way that it is not a natural extension of either of the other 2 lanes, in other words neither lane can claim to have "right of way".
Thoughts?
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But the problem with these "merge in turn" signs is that they are usually 800 yards away from the lane closure, so some start to merge at that point, and others move on down the clearer outside lane. My solution would be the two lanes have cones between them for the last 800 yards to stop lane swapping. And then when they do become one lane, the new lane is coned in such a way that it is not a natural extension of either of the other 2 lanes, in other words neither lane can claim to have "right of way". Thoughts?
Brilliant idea! Anyone else agree? (I despair of those 'self-appointed traffic manager' truckers.)
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