>>Reading the above posts, I conclude that not one of them is from a Freelander owner, so make of them what you will. >>
Correct, I never considered buying a Freelander (1) because of it's appalling reliability record - I am, however, considering purchase of a Freelander 2 based on Ford's recent reliability record.
I also have an insight into product development at Gaydon in recent years.
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Islandman
Surprising that no one else has suggested this yet...if reliability is your primary concern, have a look at a Forester...new or used.
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Restating an opinion doesn't make it any more valid.
What is your insight into product development at Gaydon and what does it tell you about build quality at a plant 100+ miles away?
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That was of course posted in reply to Rupert - one day this forum will get round to sorting this problem out (I hope).
Edited by Nsar on 11/10/2007 at 00:22
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Nsar - the point I was trying to make is that the original Freelander's reliability record is irrelevant to considerations of Freelander 2.
I, too, would welcome input from Freelander 2 owners.
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Would RT care to answer Nsars question?
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Most of the engineers at Gaydon, particularly at senior levels, are from Ford and other parts of the motor industry rather than Land-Rover. I wish I'd not mentioned "insight", it is confidential.
Halewood has never had any previous connection with Land-Rover so it's build quality is unrelated to Freelander(1).
On a historical note, BMW improved L-R build standards substantially during their ownership, but Ford executives were surprised and dismayed at the low level when they took over.
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I notice that the 'what car?' update on their fleet mentions a few niggles with their FL2 already - warning lights on the dash etc.
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To resurrect an ageing post I spent this morning having a "Land Rover Experience" in North Yorkshire - freebie courtesy of a local dealer as the friend I was with showed interest in a Freelander. The car was a 2.2 diesel auto HSE trim.
About 30 miles of country road/A road followed by a couple of hours of offroading split between myself and my friend.
The last 4x4 I was in was a Landcruiser 4.4 V8 blasting about the Arabian desert and I have never driven one before.
I was in the back for the first half of the trip - about 15 miles of typical North Yorkshire lanes ending up in Settle. To be honest this short trip couldn't finish soon enough. The back seat is very uncomfortable - very hard especially in the lumber region and very upright. I just couldn't get comfortable. Due to the roads we weren't going fast, but the body roll made the ride uncomfortable for me.
My drive was a short stretch of twisty B roads back to the A65 for 10 miles or so. First thing I noticed was the impression I was sitting on the car and not in it, despite messing with the electric adjusting seat and steering wheel I couldn't quite get a comfortable position.
Engine is very responsive and auto box works, but it hunted between gears in the 30 zones and at NSL the drone from the engine really got to me - it is far from silent in the cabin. We didn't have the radio on, but if I had one it wouldn't ever be turned off. The car was only doing about 1800 revs, but it seemed to be racing - the sound didn't seem to match the revs showing on the dash.
As I said I have never driven a 4x4 before, so took it steady and I needed to. In the bends the car just didn't feel stable and this was me taking NSL bends at 40 mph or so as I ended up behind a mimser. I quickly decided that whatever reports said there is no way this can be compared with a 'normal' car for handling.
Then it was onto offroading. Instructor first then we both had a go on a couple of different courses.
As mentioned no low ratio box, but autobox coupled with electronic aids meant it wasn't needed for the course we did. Terrain chooser assists in setting anti traction system and hill decent system is clever as the system brakes for you as you go down steep slopes. Get the car going, feet off all pedals and it goes down the slopes - including one where you have the left set of wheels on a set of rollers so no purchase whatsover. I suspect a low ratio box in 1st would provide enough engine braking to achieve a similar effect.
Final section was a pretty serious offroad course where we were both passengers and there was very little it couldn't cope with - hazards where there was a danger of grounding were saved for the 'proper' Land Rovers.
If I needed to do more regular off roading than parking in a field for a picnic this car is more than capable, but as a day to day car for urban tarmac I struggle to see what a 4x4 offers over a 'normal' car - I couldn't contemplate covering my 15-20,000 annual mileage in one.
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As I said I have never driven a 4x4 before so took it steady and I needed to. In the bends the car just didn't feel stable and this was me taking NSL bends at 40 mph or so as I ended up behind a mimser. I quickly decided that whatever reports said there is no way this can be compared with a 'normal' car for handling.
... and the Freelander is one of the best 4x4s on road! You'd really hate my landcruiser - for all its good points it feels pretty ungainly in corners compared with a Freelander. But its quite happy to be hustled through the bends once you're used to that 4x4 feel.
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I actually sell these things, and i have to say they are very good! Thats not just me being brain washed, im serious. It is the best car in its class, i tell customers to go drive evrything else and then comeback to me. I'd say 80% of them buy, the other 10% dont get credit, and the other 10%, well i dont know what happens to them...
Anyway, best thing to do is go and drive one, i would be happy to oblige haha!
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The problem with the Freelander is not how good it is on a shiny showroom when its brand new, but once the new owner has the keys and starts their ownership experience.
When the first Freelander was launched it was very highly rated and on paper and initial impression, it was a nice car. The problem was once you had paid your money, you started to realise it was only superficially good for the most part.
I spent alot of time working with Land Rovers and frankly none of them were particularily reliable.
I have a customer with a CURRENT Range Rover and its shockingly fragile, made by the same company as the Freelander, so if they cant make a £60k car right, how can one expect them to have got their cheap models right?
My customer said the car is a joke but when it does work, its the most useful tool for the job she uses it for ( farming/horsebox towing and social functions ).
It would seem just aswell she can get hold of a car whenever she wants one because a RR isnt a car for sole ownership!
The best thing to do is talk to alot of current owners and see how they are getting on, forget roadtests as they dont take into account what its like to live with.
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Absolutely right Stu.
All vehicles are generally reasonable for the period of the warranty, its what happens in the next 3 to 5 years that most here would be really interested in IMO.
Why on earth didn't your customer get the amazon for her use, once a year visit for a service and thats usually it. (could have specced it without the chrome bling)
I think the new freelander is a nice drive, i deliver them by truck and the push pull breeze block key drives me potty, but the auto diesel has lots of grunt, and hopefully its better than the old model, unfortunately the dealers would have been telling buyers that Freelander 1 was the best thing since Y fronts too.
Same as always, takes years to gain a loyal customer, and seconds to lose them.
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>>Why on earth didn't your customer get the amazon for her use, once a year visit for a service and thats usually it. (could have specced it without the chrome bling)<<
Most likely because they are the preserve of the 'sort' who park up on grass verges with rather large caravans and then dont leave when asked - cant turn up at posh houses looking like your coming to go camping on a rather permanant basis :-)
Seriously though, I think its most likely because the Toyota is rather vulgar in terms of taste/styling, something that my customer values very highly. She has very discerning taste on all fronts.
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Yep, our hilux is rather vulgar too, I only have good taste in my fair lady.
But i'm not on first name terms at the service desk....
While there's customers like that about, where style and not reliability/durability are more important, they'll keep churning out the same mediocre quality.
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The problem with the Freelander is not how good it is on a shiny showroom when its brand new but once the new owner has the keys and starts their ownership experience.
The reason I bought the Landcruiser despite preferring the onroad handling of the freelander
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I have a mar 07 registered freelander 2 gs diesel manual to date i am on software upgrade number 11 if ever the radio doesn,t work beware the car will stop in 48 hrs? finally @ 10000 miles got that sorted now at 15000 miles gearbox sensors playing up with display telling me incorrect traction settings, rang LR customer care and their man came and fitted new sensor and it was great for 1 week. now today I have hill descent lights on traction control lights on and rear windows go up and down continually, to add insult to injury the nice people at land rover keep lending me a new discovery 3 which i adore but can,t afford, I so wanted to support this ex british legend and still do but find I have no faith in this car anymore and may end up with a Jap equivelent, and that saddens me
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I fail to understand why the motoring press is so much in love with Land Rover in spite of horrendous reliability issues!
It is not a British company anymore, so can't say it is for patriotism.
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It's simple enough. Land Rover have a huge advertising budget and the press know it. Press men get to play with the latest offerings in lavish style and never have to bear the longer term results of their poor design and poor execution.
I had hoped Ford would sort this brand out - as it is, they have astutely sold it instead, just at the right time.
659.
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i was reading a bit about the Australian army, they used to use modified LR 110's with isuzu 3.9l diesels ,as reliability in the out back was the difference between life and death
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My pal turned in his 04 run-out special edition Discovery last year for a new Freelander 2 with the 2.2 diesel, because he wanted the ease of access and driveability but in something a bit smaller and, dare I say it, more 'eco friendly'. He loved it for a bit and when I drove it I was very impressed - it was lively, comfortable in front, not heavy to drive (although it had a ridiculous 6-speed gearbox) and went round corners as if it was designed to do just that, unlike the Disco. I thought the ignition card/starter button was a bit of a tacky joke though.
Anyway, electrical glitches intervened so the novelty quickly wore off and he bit the bullet, took the drop and now has a new Disco 3 with a V6 oiler.
No glitches yet...
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Freelander 2's are appearing to gain a reputation for electrical glitches but then they are just joining the ranks of others that also suffer with horrendous electrical faults. You only have to read TSB's these days to see that even Merc & BMW & VAG are also blessed with continous electrical faults as manufactures try & compete with Central control modules to carry out every operation the vehicle has to offer. Complex or what!
I pickup a new Freelander 2 in a few weeks so lets see how it behaves, sounds like the AA may be busy.
I had one on loan for a while & put it through its paces & couldn't fault the Autobox & it had plenty of grunt. The engine was extremly quiet & handling was very good with almost no body roll. In fact I tried to catch the auto box out & get it to hunt but it was faultless.
I agree with Mike the key system is carp but its the way they are going now. LR are now suppose to have most of the electrical issues sorted so fingers crossed.
IJ
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