Oil types and manufacturer specs

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Sat 28 Oct 2006 12:16
Oil types and manufacturer specs - cheddar
Hello,

Yes I have read Oilman's sticky in the tech thread however this is more of a discussion point.

Castrol, Texaco, Comma, Morris etc all make semi synth 5w-30 oil to the Ford WSS-M2C913-B spec, are they therefore precisely comparable because they meet the same industry standards and manufacturer specs?

Also Mobil make Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 fully synth which is not quoted as meeting the Ford spec though meets higher industry specs A3/B3 etc, is this better per se' or should it not be used in a Ford because it does not meet the Ford WSS-M2C913-B spec?

Any thoughts?
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Sat 28 Oct 2006 12:29
Oil types and manufacturer specs - jc2
Ford do not require a fully synthetic spec. as they have not gone to ultra-long service intervals;if you were to change at 5/6000 mile intervals,a normal multigrade would be suitable.Ford labelled oil is Texaco.
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Sat 28 Oct 2006 12:40
Oil types and manufacturer specs - cheddar
A normal mineral multigrade would not meet the Ford spec nor would it meet the demands of a turbocharged engine or the anti shear requirement of high pressure CR pumps etc.

The point is that are all oils that meet the same specs of the same quality? Or to put it another way, of all oils that meet the same specs are some better than others and if so how does one know which is "best" when you only have the industry standards and manufacturer specs to go by?

Also I wonder why the fully synth Mobil 5W-30 does not meet the Ford spec.
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Sat 28 Oct 2006 16:53
Oil types and manufacturer specs - type's'
Apologies if this moves away from the OP - I don't think it does so please bare with me.

In SWMBO's Corolla the handbook states 5W 30 as a preferred oil grade and so I bought the Castrol Edge 4l bottle and asked the dealer to use it on her last service. (This was the only 5W30 fully synthetic I could get in my area). The dealer used it and I'm sure if they thought it was not appropriate they would have said.
The bottle only had VW oil standards on it and claimed it was suitable for the long service intervals VW enjoy.
So I e-mailed Castrol and they said it was ok for the Corolla but they would not recomend it - they recomended magnatec 10W40.
As part of this discussion - why would this be the case ?
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Sat 28 Oct 2006 17:42
Oil types and manufacturer specs - Hamsafar
It has been a long-standing observation made withi the industry, that the current certification system doesn't encourage innovation or improvement over and above what is already stipulated. What I mean by that is that there is no proper way of grading oil's performance over and above which spec it meets, even if it exceeds it by a long way.
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Sun 29 Oct 2006 06:46
Oil types and manufacturer specs - cheddar
there is no proper way of grading oil's performance over
and above which spec it meets, even if it exceeds it
by a long way.


That seems to be the case Ashok however when it comes to manufacturers specs should one follow them implicitly or go for an equivilent, though by the industry standards, superior product. For instance Comma semi synth 5w-30 meets Ford WSS-M2C913-B spec, though Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 fully synth does not.
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Sun 29 Oct 2006 10:51
Oil types and manufacturer specs - Bill Payer
For instance Comma semi synth 5w-30 meets Ford WSS-M2C913-B spec, though Mobil 1
ESP Formula 5W-30 fully synth does not.

I'm guessing here - but could it simply be that Ford (and VW etc) either require paying (perhaps by way of licence fee) or have an onerous approval process to go through, which some oil vendors choose to go though and some don't?

I do feel that people get carried away with oil specs - on my MB, for example, the handbook shows a range of grades against temperatures. The service interval also varies according to Mineral, semi-synth or synth.
In practice, the ambient temp in the UK, and the fact that most people change their oil at least every year, means you could perfectly adequately use practically any commonly available oil.
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Sun 29 Oct 2006 11:07
Oil types and manufacturer specs - nortones2
Not too sure that I'd chance ignoring the engine makers advice on oil choice. Some engines (turbo's, PD diesels, those with idiosyncratic problems such as certain Toyota's) give the oil a harder time. If you don't want the dreaded black sludge, or your cam/injector assembly to fail prematurely, the mfr spec needs to be followed. Many mfrs carry out stringent wear rate tests, and using non-approved oils means you take a chance. If/when the engine fails, mfr will check the oil before stumping up under warranty.
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Sun 29 Oct 2006 14:10
Oil types and manufacturer specs - Bill Payer
Not too sure that I'd chance ignoring the engine makers advice on oil choice.


I'm not suggesting that people ignore specific advice, however the original question was non-specific.

VW approved oils, for example, have a tracer chemical in them, so I presume that in the event of a big claim, VW would look for the presence (or otherwise) of that tracer. So it's a good idea to use their approved oil.

More generally, it's very difficult to believe that one branded 5W30 is significantly different from another branded 5W30 just because it isn't stamped with a certain manufacturers approval. And as synthethic should last longer than semi-synth (even though most people would change well before the end of its life) surely the synthetic would be better than the semi-synth (albeit probably un-neccesary)?
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Sun 29 Oct 2006 15:24
Oil types and manufacturer specs - nortones2
Agreed, given that oils designed to comply with ACEA requirements, are chosen, they are probably similar in performance. Its difficult to tell whether the fully synth is demonstrably much better than the semi, if only because we as consumers have no access to hard data. I use fully synth and have done for many years. As the highest mileage engine was about 70,000 it may not have made any difference at all, and I will never know. However, I tend to the school of thought that if I stick to mfrs OCI (10,000 miles for VW's we had, 12,500 for the current Hondas) I want to avoid oxidation and other nasties which may afflict some cheaper oils, by using higher "quality" lubricants.
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Wed 21 Sep 2011 14:40
Oil types and manufacturer specs - Yorky Bob

Issues started part way into a service when the dealer said I had supplied the wrong oil (£5.20 per litre as apposed to a dealer price of circa £19 per litre). The Landrover service book and the plate under the bonnet clearly states this vehicle replacement oil must meet Ford M2C 913B specification and be 5W30 viscosity. Before purchasing the oil (Millers XSS 5W30 oil in 5 litre containers) I called Millers oil technical line and at the current mileage of 8,000 pa I was assured their XSS 5W30 brand fulfilled all of 2011 Landrover Freelander requirements but at higher mileage pa up to the specified 15,000 miles between services they would push you towards Millers XF LONGLIFE ECO 5W30.

The dealer after a discussion fell back from their position when I challenged them but then wrote on my invoice "customer supplied oil that does not meet DPF requirements", currently I am challenging this with Landrover having asked them first when did fully synthetic oil to Ford M2C 913C specification become a requirement as they had not informed this important change to vehicle owners. Landrover agreed with me by phone that Ford M2C 913B had not been superseded so I feel that many motorists are being overcharged by dealers for fully synthetic oil when good branded semi synthetic oil does the trick (and that spec is recommended). A DPF does seems to be the achilles heel of owning a modern diesel engine but I am not happy that a dealer could possibly compromise my warranty by putting such a statement on my invoice. I wonder what oil is going in at the factory? as an example BMW were recommending Castrol and then provided a Shell 1litre top up pack within the boot of my wife's new BMW a couple of years ago.

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Wed 21 Sep 2011 21:02
Oil types and manufacturer specs - SteveLee

Homeware chain "The Range" do (labelled as) Ford and VW spec oil (made by Fuchs I believe) branded as Unipart, £15 for 5 litres (semi-synth) or £20 (fully-synth). Not all stores carry the whole range ('scuse the pun) because some stock the VW 505 and 507 spec oils where as all stock the 505. (Semi) and semi-synth Ford spec.

Top quality oil at bargain-bucket prices. 1 litre top-up bottles are also available which is refreshing.

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Thu 22 Sep 2011 11:40
Oil types and manufacturer specs - jc2

Castrol is owned by BP;Ford Formula E is not semi-synthetic but PART synthetic and Ford have now brought out a FULLY synthetic to suit extended service intervals.

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Thu 22 Sep 2011 13:58
Oil types and manufacturer specs - jc2

Duckhams is also part of BP.

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Thu 22 Sep 2011 17:05
Oil types and manufacturer specs - dieseldogg

I really must find a suitable tractor oil to run the Octavia on once she is out of warrenty.

Whilst in warrenty I am not going to quibble with purchasing the ........507 spec oil VW every 18,600 miles.

3 services in three years aint goin to choke me.

Than as above I will be reading the fine print on the back of the various offerings from the reputable manufacturers.

I have never been brand loyal regarding oil choice, & buy simply on meeting/exceeding spec & according to price.

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Thu 22 Sep 2011 23:19
Oil types and manufacturer specs - SteveLee

What's wrong with 507 spec fully synth for £20?

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Fri 23 Sep 2011 09:00
Oil types and manufacturer specs - dieseldogg

"What's wrong with 507 spec fully synth for £20?"

Not a bad price for 20litres

Yes?

But anyway I found that when Der Galaxy was still "new" but out of the then poxy 1 year Ford warrenty, a surprising number of "knowedgable" people were aghast that I was running her on tractor oil, which I absolutly was, being Case No1, from a 20 litre drum.

But seeing as this stratagey has gotten her to 240,000 plus miles on the undisturbed block, who was correct?

cheers

M

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