Seeking advice, on behalf of my brother, re purchase of a Morris Traveller for use as a second car. What to look out for, prices, practicality of such a vehicle, maintenance. etc.
Your comments would be much appreciated.
Pat
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The wood round the back is structural, and "needs sanding and varnishing every two years", if my recollection of the owner's manual I once read in a country garage is correct.
Regards,
LASFC
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I'm not sure about the wood being structural. I think there was a cooking version, akin to the van, without wood. The wood was for swank.
I once knew a little SAAB estate (99?) with a German Ford V4, which was a solid job but relatively scarce, of course. (I'd prefer the performance three carb two stroke, but the 20 mpg seemed to discourage people!)
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That was a 95 actually wasn't it Tomo? They still kept the freewheel gearbox over fom the 2 stroke, and you could use it as a fourth pedal - groovy!
Bono
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Bono, quite right; 95 it is. I never had one, but wanted one much. We remember when the GP on the isle of Barra had one, great for the narrow roads and also for getting to emergencies PDQ.
Bits are perhaps less easy to get than for the Minor - a jolly good little car itself - but I'd say the 95 would be fine on the road even now.
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Having had several, and still with an engine, gearboxes and a few trim bits and pieces lying in the garage, I would say the SAAB 95 is much more suited to modern daily use than a Traveller. It has a solid steel cage at the front, and strong side doors for crash protection. The flat underside is wonderful for getting through snow and the V4 is extremely reliable and easy to work on. There is a small pop up bench seat in the back and you can even use that and lay the centre seats flat if so minded. The freewheel means clutchless gear changes on the move but the big drawback for anyone jumping out of a modern car may be the heavy steering.
Great simple, comfortable cars but prices have risen beyond the £50-300 I used to pay to over £1000 in most cases.
David
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Tomo
The wood on the Traveller is structural. There never was a 'fake' woodie. I believe you're confusing this with the wood clad versions of the Mini estates, which were vans with stuck on wood.
regards
John
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Wood, exposed to the rain, is only slightly more durable than 1960s steel.
for another pessimistic view, see:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=36205&t...6
(How y'doing Darcy K. ?)
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Fine, BE.
Given the choice, I'd much rather have a Saab than a Moggie, but I'm in danger of repeating myself.
If ever a car taught you "gears to go, brakes to slow", it was a Saab 95 with freewheel. And yes I thought the steeering was heavy.
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Anyone want a Morris Minor 1,000,000? That's right, the special lilac jobbie built to commemmorate 1,000,000 Morrie Minors built. An owner just e-mailed with one for sale.
HJ
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if its under 500 quid, with mot, then ok.
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Miserable blighter! It was disgusting, but could be resprayed!
I say nought of the tinworm.
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Pat, they are reliable and will even cruise at 80 on the motorway. Also easy to service, though you have to grease the suspension every 6000 miles. The wood is structural. If your brother is not a DIY type, forget it and get a Nissan Micra.
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Richard,
>cruise at 80 on the motorway
I think that would redefine my idea of cruising!
David
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Scary experience hammering up the A1 in my mum's morris minor 3 up with the boot and most of the back seat full of camping gear. She was driving it flat out, the speedo needle was pointing to the "F" of the fuel gauge (so more than 80 if you believe the speedo) and the noise from engine, wind and tyres was indescribable. At her request when she bought the car, I had fitted a headlamp flasher which was being used frequently on that journey.
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Having taken one apart for a friend I can confirm the wood is structural and the infill panels are aluminium.
The rear door posts are the weak area because the joints are pulled apart if the door restraint straps are broken/missing, as is often the case.
New sides are available but are expensive.
When you take one apart you realise why Morris never made money on them.
(Refitting the aluminium rain strip to the roof is a nightmare)
Good luck
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David
I think that would redefine my idea of having working ears.
Chris
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In the past (the very past student days) I had several Minor saloons and vans, though never a traveller. From memory they were cheap and easy to maintain, front suspension does need regular greasing and I seem to remember cheecking rear spring mounting points for rust when purchasing. I would have thought that you would need 1275 transplant before cruising at 80 became an option.
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Pat,
Check these guys out - they're very helpful and also have many serviced and restored Moggies that have been checked over.
www.morrisminor.org.uk/
Dan
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Pat
Yes, a Minor is an ideal second 'classic' car. I say as a second car, because although some are in daily use, it has to be remembered that the youngest is now 30 years old, and although they have legendary reliability they are not that good.
Spares availability is excellent, possibly better than some new cars. Join the Morris Minor Owners Club (www.morrisminoroc.co.uk) for advice and the magazine which is full of adverts for spares.
Unless you're really keen on an early car avoid the side valve and series 2 cars with the 803cc OHV engine. Really a bit slow for regular use. Get the post '57 one piece windscreen '1000' model with the 948 engine, increased to 1098 in late '62. That said, Series 2 Travellers are extremely rare anyway.
The Travellers are very popular, but remember that the wood does rot, is a structural member (potential MOT fail), and is expensive to replace.
Check any Minor for Rust. Rust in doors, boot, front and rear wings is obvious, but get underneath and look at all the 'chassis' members, the box sections under the doors, rear spring hangers, and the centre cross memeber. This member locates the front suspension torsion bars and is a laminated construction which can rust. If its bodged or appears to be bulging, budget £500 for replacement!
Mechanics on Minors is relaively easy, and mechanical spares are generally reasonably priced. Never underestimate the cost of bodywork repairs though. So, mechanical condition is probably the last thing to worry about, but do make allowance for repairs that may be needed in the price you pay.
Prices vary widely, because the condition of individual vehicles varies so much.
Current figures from the MMOC indicate:
1000 Traveller:
Condition 1 (excellent order throughout, not necessarily concours, free of any visible corrosion, and a true representation of the Minor) ie a really beautiful car. £5200
Condition 2 (Most Minors in everyday use will be in this category - evidence of patch repairs, modified, personalised.) £3000
Condition 3 (Complete and running, but needing major restoration work to be capable of everyday use) £330
Saloons of the same era are priced at £3600, £1800 and £300.
My personal view is that the Condition 2 price represents a pretty jolly smart car for it to be worth this money, and I'd expect most cars to be between the Condition 3 and 2 prices. Like any 'classic' purchase you don't expect a FSH, the car will have been worked on, probably had lots of owners, so buy carefully. One problem is that many cars will have had various spares from different eras used as many later parts are interchangeable. If you want to have an 'original' car, this can be an issue, so it pays to look at as many cars as you can before you buy.
regards
John
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Thanks for the advice! It's me who might be buying a Traveller.
It's actually for my wife who thinks they're cute and quaint (and I actually agree with her). It'd be only for going to and from work (6 miles) and occasional trips out, but the main car is a Honda.
Thanks all who contributed advice etc.
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John,
My first car was a series 2 Moggie M with the long gearlever and split screen. I loved the car, though I guess for todays roads it waould be a trifle slow, although fine for local driving.
If I was to purchase one I think I would consider a complete re build at one of the moggie specialists who are switched on to the wrinkles associated with the job. As you say, they are now getting rather elderly.
I owned my moggie as a youngster in 1967. It was shiny example in light grey and in excellent order bodily. I plonked an 1100 A 35 engine and gearbox in it, as young people are inclined to do, and with the low axle still in place was something akin to a tractor when driving up a hill. I would love to own another, but I am currently about to buy a cottage in W Sussex.
Regards,
Julian L
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I know my bro has already posted his thanks for all your advice, but I'd like to thank you backroomers for coming up with goods. It's his first visit to the site and I know he was impressed by the willingness of you all to offer real advice.
Pat
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Julian
That's the question I always get - is your car a 'split screen'? Many are slightly disappointed when we say it's a 1000 with the one piece screen. The split screen seems to be the defining point of the Minor for most people. it's always a good talking point at shows though - so many people seem to have owned, driven, learned in, had a relative who owned etc a Minor. Certainly the true 'peoples car'.
I'm intrigued by your 1100 engined A35 donor car. Just shows how interchangeable the bits are - I don't believe A35 ever (officially) had the 1100 engine - they were all 948's, replaced by the 948 A40 Mk1, later getting the 1100 engine as the A40 Mk2. The Minor kept going as basically the same car, collecting these changes on the way.
Far fewer A30/A35's than Minors about these days it seems. Very small and very prone to rot, plus that wierd hydraulic/mechanical braking system.
Your comment about rebuilds is valid, and why I was suggesting Pat's relative looked carefully. These cars are very old, and vary enormously. Major body repairs are either VERY time consuming if you have the skills, or VERY expensive at a good body shop, albeit much, much quicker. Many major body jobs are not realy DIY items. So, you need to know your abilities, and buy carefully.
regards
John
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John,
Just a few lines to elaborate re the doner car for the 1100 A series engine that I transplanted in my Moggie all those years ago.
The doner "A 35" was in fact a Radio Rentals van that I found in a tiny breakers yard not far from Hitchin, Hert's. Strangely, there were two of them and they both seemed only superficially damaged. Interestingly, both of the vans were fitted with a triangular shaped governor that was sandwiched between the inlet manifold and the carburretor. I don't know how they worked -probably vacumn, a valve and calibrated linkage of some kind I would guess.
The engine ident codes indicated that it had a low compression cylinder head so 60 thou was machined off during the installation process. A cut out in the floor was required to accomodate the short stick gearbox, and new drillings to accomodate the different tunnel cover. Replacement underlay and carpets (secondhand) completed the installation.
My parents at that time lived in Berkshire and this lovely moggie regularly used to undertake the 70 mile journey when I visited them with never a reliability grumble. I bought it from a girlfriend and sold it to another 2 years later. Its intrigueing how certain events remain lodged in ones memory, nostalgia remembered!
Regards,
Julian L
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Julian, I think the 'governor' was simply a perforated plate to restrict the flow of the fuel/air mixture so as to keep the speed down. Certainly this was fitted to some commercial vans.
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David,
Thanks for the info, the govenor did look a very simple device.
The engine transplant taught me a good deal, and it was quite a useful training course to "grow" during my late teenage years.
Kind regards
Julian L
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